Forum Index » GEAR » Gossamer Gear LT Poles


Display Avatars Sort By:
Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
CP3 vs LT4 vs BD ACC on 10/10/2013 16:36:01 MDT Print View

How do you think the sturdiness/quality of the FL2 poles compare to more robust CF poles such as the BD Alpine Carbon Corks?

You're asking the the right guy because I've also owned the BD ACC's. There was a sad day about 18 months ago when I left them at the trailhead in a sleep deprived stupor.

In terms of quality, all of these poles are nice. BD does a great job and Locus Gear is detail obsessed - they're beautiful poles. The LT4's are a more basic but also well executed design.

In terms of strength/durability, the ACC's are much beefier than the CP3's or LT4's. At 16oz/set (vs. 8-10oz) they're also much heavier. I find the ACC's to be overkill for trail use - I certainly notice the extra weight. I think the LT4's are perfect for high milage trail walkers and the CP3's are great for people who do a mix of trail and moderate off-trail hiking. The CP3's add flick locks, shorter stashed length and a bit of extra stiffness for just 1oz/pole which is a pretty good trade off for people who venture off-trail or packraft (easier to stash). I think they're cheaper too. If the CP3's are 25% stiffer than the LT4's, then the ACC's are 100% stiffer (wild guesses).

The ACC's have the stiffness to venture into the winter season, but I like to use cheaper poles when I'm skiing because I break a lot of them. For on-trail use they are overkill and heavy, but slower walkers might not notice the weight difference. They're probably best suited for snowshoeing, predominately off-trail hiking (ie. Brooks Range) and for rich people to use while skiing.

FWIW, with the ACC's is that you can ditch one of the lower sections and toss in a GG LT4 lower section, which makes the pole much longer because you're adding a section from a 2 piece pole into a 3 piece pole. This doesn't really compromise stiffness because you only have 8" or so of the bottom section sticking out, and it allows you to set up rather tall 'mids.

Edited by dandydan on 10/10/2013 16:38:46 MDT.

Billy Ray
(rosyfinch) - M

Locale: the mountains
and... vs. the Black Diamond Ultra Distance Z-Pole? on 10/10/2013 16:54:56 MDT Print View

Dan,
can you take a shot at comparing all these carbo poles to the BD carbo Z-poles? I think they weigh about 10 oz @ 120cm lengh

thanks,

Bill D

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Z poles on 10/10/2013 17:52:21 MDT Print View

I've only walked around the store with the BD Z poles, so my experience is very limited.

The pair I used had some slop in the joints, so they felt more flexy than they probably were. If memory serves, they weren't nearly as stiff as the ACC's - perhaps they're in the vicinity of the CP3's in terms out outright strength, but the CP3's feel better under normal load because they don't have the slop in the joints.

Comparing the Z poles and the CP3's, the Z poles are quicker to deploy and they stow even smaller, but they have some omnipresent slop and they're non-adjustable, so the CP3's are the nicer poles IMO. If you're new to poles or possibly using it with a shelter, than an adjustable pole is really nice. I wouldn't get the Z poles unless you get a great deal or really want 'em to pack small. They're a nice choice for split boarders who only need poles for the way up and they want them to pack unobtrusively on the way down.

Edited by dandydan on 10/10/2013 17:54:17 MDT.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
carbon trekking poles on 10/10/2013 18:26:39 MDT Print View

One thing that troubles me about all these carbon poles: It is seldom if ever clear whether the carbon tubes are pultruded, wrapped carbon cloth, or filament wound.
Regular visitors to this site are probably familiar with equipment editor Roger Caffin's posts about the filament winding machine.

In spending much time with carbon tent poles I've discovered that the difference, in terms of break strength, between the filament wound and the others is usually like night and day. I say 'usually' because Cabela's markets an arrow shaft of their own that they claim is multi-layer, but is not competitive in terms of break strength with
the multi-layer shafts form Gold Tip and Victory.

I wish the carbon trekking pole makers would provide more info about the composition of their products.

Until that happens, I'd prefer a 5-6 oz ALU Fizan pole to a carbon one an ounce or so lighter. All of the many posts I've seen on BPL about Fizans have been quite positive, and their cost is quite reasonable, even when you figure in shipping from the UK to the US.

Christopher *
(cfrey.0) - M

Locale: US East Coast
Re: carbon trekking poles on 10/10/2013 18:52:18 MDT Print View

Interesting point Samuel. I was just rereading one of Roger's posts on CF tubes and I had failed to connect it back to trekking poles.

While I cannot attest to the underlying structure, the lower sections of the GG LT's do have that rough overlaid spiral wrap.

Robin B
(beckcommar) - F

Locale: NorCal
Re: Re: Re: Locus Gear CP3 FL on 10/10/2013 19:52:36 MDT Print View

Just thought I'd throw out a couple experiences as I am the new owner of a pair of CP3s and have used the BD carbon corks recently as well.

Like Jennifer, my one of my CP3s rattle and it definitely bothers me. I got in touch with Jotaro and we exchanged videos of poles and the sounds they make and he basically said that all of his poles rattle and the one I have that doesn't is the anomaly. So that's not ideal, but I'm still a bit torn as the CP3s are clearly more than sturdy enough for any trail and even some trickier off-trail walking and they are--of course--much lighter.

I was surprised how different it felt to carry them compared the BD poles. They are just so light and effortless. It made me want to take off the straps (which I swear by on the BDs) and just grip them. That got me thinking though that I'm pretty sure a lot of the weight difference between the BDs and the CP3s is actually in the grip and straps. The grips and straps on the BDs are much more robust and I wouldn't be surprised if in total they account for probably oz. of the difference in the weight (most of the difference).

So my suggestion to someone considering these would be to think less about the stiffness unless you do winter activities or really strain your poles and to think more about the tradeoff between a lighter weight and the much more robust strap and grip system on the BDs and similar poles.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Poles on 10/10/2013 20:32:42 MDT Print View

FWIW, my older generation CP2 poles don't rattle (unless it's so minor I just haven't noticed). As you mention, the CP2/3's are noticeably lighter than the ACC's - they feel much like a GG LT pole, which is the big attraction.

With the straps removed from my BD ACC's, they were 15.8oz/set so I only shaved about .5oz by ditching both straps, which isn't much but I don't like straps anyways. My guess is the extra 3oz for the ACC's is about 0.75oz in the grip, 0.25oz in the heavier flicklocks and 2oz in the tubing. I don't have numbers, but I had an extra BD ACC lower section kicking around for a while and it was obviously heavier than the 37g Locus Gear lower section. There was no doubt just picking the two up - and having the weight lower is worse because it increases the swing weight.

FWIW, the GG LT grips are about a gram lighter than the CP2 grips. With the straps removed from my CP2's (including the internal hardware that I removed when I swapped grips) they are now 9.75oz/set. Impressive but the GG LT4 poles are a ridiculous 7.4oz/set. I'm very happy with the CP2's for general mixed adventuring, but if I was on a long distance trail then the LT4's would be my first choice. My first pair of LT4's was the short version which went to 125cm's or so, and those weighed a mere 6.6oz.

Edited by dandydan on 10/10/2013 20:35:35 MDT.

Billy Ray
(rosyfinch) - M

Locale: the mountains
Re: Carbo Poles on 10/11/2013 20:17:38 MDT Print View

Dan, and others who own Carbo Poles...

It seems to me there would be quite a bit of damage to the lower parts of carbon fiber poles. I assume this from all thousands of nicks I see on the lower sections of my aluminum poles. Carbon Fiber is soft and quite nickable, me thinks. Even trails have rocks in the High Sierra where I do most of my hiking.

So... what think those who own and have a couple of hundred miles on their carbo poles? How much damage? And is it fixable or you have to buy new poles at some point? Or a new lower section?

Also. If you own the Locus Gear CP3 FL poles can you tell me about the grips that come with it... are the tops soft? I like to 'palm' the tops on the down hills for maximum reach... some poles have hard or firm edges where to top transitions to the side and those edges can make my palms sore... lover the rounded egg-shaped tops of the Leki poles... but heavy :(

thanks,

Bill D.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Carbo Poles on 10/11/2013 20:42:37 MDT Print View

"It seems to me there would be quite a bit of damage to the lower parts of carbon fiber poles....So... what think those who own and have a couple of hundred miles on their carbo poles? How much damage? "

I have well over a thousand miles on my Gossamer Gear LT4s. JMT, Winds, Grand Canyon, Colorado. Lots of nicks and scrapes. The LT4s have a "thick" spiral wrap on the Lowers that serves as "armor" for the structural components. It's meant to take the abuse, and protect the inner wraps. So, nicks and dings are not a problem.

But don't wedge a pole in a hole or crack and then give it a yank to get it out. Just let go, go back and get it.

Edited by greg23 on 10/11/2013 21:37:11 MDT.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Locus Gear CP3 FL on 10/12/2013 08:12:36 MDT Print View

You know robin I thought the same thing about the straps! I have been a serious strap devotee since I started to learn to use poles...couldn't imagine NOT using them. But with the BD Z poles (which were, hands down, my favorite! Just don't work with a shelter...) and now these CP3s I do want to remove the straps. Actually, I kind of want to try to swap out the GG grips, now that I see how easy it is....

Marc Kokosky
(mak52580) - F - M

Locale: Washington, DC Area
CP3 Diameter on 10/12/2013 10:56:24 MDT Print View

Does anyone know what the diameter is of the lower section of the CP3? Would the GG pole extender work in these so I could set up my duomid in an A frame? Just curious...

Link .
(annapurna) - MLife
Re: CP3 Diameter on 10/12/2013 12:20:13 MDT Print View

The GG pole extender has a larger diameter

Edited by annapurna on 10/12/2013 12:21:53 MDT.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Locus Gear CP3 FL on 10/12/2013 16:43:12 MDT Print View

Jennifer -
"...the BD Z poles- which were, hands down, my favorite! Just don't work with a shelter..."

Because they are not long enough for your shelter?

Or not adjustable to accommodate varying terrain?

Or...?

A "pole jack" (extension) will solve #1. Thin-walled brass tubing at Home Depot, Michael's, etc. can be "cut to fit" for the ideal setup.

Zach Sawyer
(Soybomb) - F
CP3 on 10/12/2013 18:12:00 MDT Print View

Is the only place to buy the CP3' online? How much does the price work out to in american, with shipping, for 2?

Edited by Soybomb on 10/12/2013 18:13:23 MDT.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: CP3 on 10/13/2013 08:53:44 MDT Print View

Yes, you buy them from Locus Gear online. I want to say about $145 for the pair, including shipping. Sorry I'm not more exact but I bought the dual pole extender thing too, so that obviously upped it a bit. For the two, including shipping, it cost me $180.

The whole transaction actually cheaper and easier than I expected. Can't recommend them highly enough.

Marc Kokosky
(mak52580) - F - M

Locale: Washington, DC Area
Re: CP3 vs LT4 vs BD ACC on 10/13/2013 10:12:21 MDT Print View

FWIW, with the ACC's is that you can ditch one of the lower sections and toss in a GG LT4 lower section, which makes the pole much longer because you're adding a section from a 2 piece pole into a 3 piece pole. This doesn't really compromise stiffness because you only have 8" or so of the bottom section sticking out, and it allows you to set up rather tall 'mids.


What does replacing the lower section of an ACC with the LT4 lower do to the weight?

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
Lightest trekking poles on 10/20/2013 17:28:40 MDT Print View

Re: .."mostly I was just tearing [the grips] off which worked fine." - DandyDan

It suddenly dawned that it won't be necessary to remove the whole grip on any of these poles to add an extension. Just cut the light foam extension off the discount poles I have, remove it if possible, maybe with boiling water, and slide it up the top section of the LT4s, Locus CP3s or Fizan Compact ULs until it mates with the original grip. Did this before with heavier golf club grips - should have been obvious. The golf pro has a secret formula for sliding the grips on - think it involves mineral spirits - may need to check with him again to try to pry out the exact formula (What turns mineral spirits milky white?).

All that is needed is to know the outside diameters of the top sections of these poles to be sure that the extension that fits over a 5/8" tube will fit. Alas, none of the companies have answered emails - probably figure they are just flak from some BPL gram weenie nut - OK, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

If any of you who have the LT4s, Locus CP3s, or Fizan Compact ULs would be kind enough to measure the outer diameter just below the grip and post same, it would be much appreciated.

When the extensions are installed, promise to post pix and the resulting total weight.
Haven't decided yet on the pole, but leaning toward the Fizans because the 7001 alloy will bend before breaking, they are only an ounce apiece heavier than LT4s and about the same weight as the CP3s, and all who have them appear to say their twist locks actually work without slippage.

Thanks.

Edited by scfhome on 10/20/2013 17:29:40 MDT.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
straps on 10/20/2013 18:07:07 MDT Print View

hike 30 miles leaning heavily on your poles on downhills to slow your momentum before placing an injured leg down, and you wont consider removing your straps.

removing straps severely limits how much support poles can give you. Its like taking the shoulder support off a pair of crutches.

Edited by livingontheroad on 10/20/2013 18:09:44 MDT.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Poles on 10/20/2013 19:41:41 MDT Print View

"If you own the Locus Gear CP3 FL poles can you tell me about the grips that come with it... are the tops soft? I like to 'palm' the tops on the down hills"
They're not good for this. When you palm the top you can feel the mechanism that the strap attaches to. If you push hard you can actually feel the end of the screw poking your hand. This is true for the CP2 FL poles and the CP3 appear to use the same grip setup. When I replaced my grips with LT4 ones I removed this mechanism, so now they work well for palming and they're lighter.

"Does anyone know what the diameter is of the lower section of the CP3?"
12mm

What does replacing the lower section of an ACC with the LT4 lower do to the weight?
I don't have numbers but the GG lower section was noticeably way lighter. I had the BD lower section kicking around for a year after I lost the rest of the poles and every time I picked it up I was surprised. The GG lower section is at most 1/2 the weight. The difference is at least 1/2oz (per pole) and could be a full oz.

"All that is needed is to know the outside diameters of the top sections of these poles"
The LG CP3's are 16mm OD for the upper (non-tapered), while the LT4's are 14mm.

Edited by dandydan on 10/20/2013 19:42:15 MDT.

J C
(Joomy) - M
CP3 for tall people? on 10/20/2013 21:53:36 MDT Print View

Anyone used the CP3 at or near their length limit? I'm 6'4 and use my poles at between 130-135cm and I'm wondering how strong/stiff the CP3 are at their max extension.