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3rd Annual BPL Spring Run -Zion Training Thread
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Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
My Name is Malto on 10/19/2013 19:58:23 MDT Print View

And I have a problem. I keep trying to take a rest day but I keep finding myself working out anyway. I am starting to find running is like crack. The good news is that after several years of hating running I am actually starting to really like it as a stress relief.

I am a firm believer, and now huge violator, of quality over quantity. I continue to believe that weekly base miles alone are not of good judge of training success. I believe focusing on a single long run then one quality mid week training objective combined with cross training to be far superior. I hope to shift to this strategy in a couple of weeks. It has worked the last three years to get my lazy self in shape for various events.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: training on 10/20/2013 08:35:54 MDT Print View

over training is relative to ones base, but I'd say Mike's 40 mi/ week is not over training.

even "most" high end trail runners have a significant down period once a year. and its as much for the mind as it is for the body.
Mike - you could even drop to 15 miles and 3 days a week and it would be fine, as long as you didn't stay there too long.

as far as training -
I find 4 days a week to be best in early season, then 5 days a week is preferred once I get into mid season training, with 2-3 weeks of 6 days as I try and peak for the main event of the year.

and of course "Quality" - but exactly what is that ??
we all feel sometimes we are running just to add on some miles to our tally.
so what is everyone's definition of Quality Miles ?

a good mix of runs during the week works for me :
1 long run, easy intensity (5+ hours)
2 intermediate length runs, intermediate intensity (2-2.5 hours each)
1-3 shorter high intensity runs (45-60 minutes each)
the high intensity short runs are often hill work.
(in mid season I will sometimes reverse the intensity level between the intermediate and short runs just for a change of pace).

I refer to hours rather than miles because terraine affects pace so much.
I am a big believer in trying to train on the type of terraine your target event will be on.

Edited by asandh on 10/20/2013 09:36:31 MDT.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
training on 10/20/2013 14:06:14 MDT Print View

good info everyone! :)

finished up the week w/ 24 miles

strength/5.5/0/3.5/strength/9/6- where I'm running I'm getting good hill work thrown in consistently, my 9 mile run had ~2700' of gain, even my 3.5 mile run had ~800'

I'll shoot for a long run in the mid-teens for next weekend and continue to keep my midweek runs on the shorter side

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: training on 10/27/2013 17:11:22 MDT Print View

only ran three times this week, but had some quality runs and ended the week w/ 24 miles and ~ 6100' of elevation


Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: training on 10/27/2013 17:18:21 MDT Print View

Surfed 6 days for a total of almost 12 hours this week.
Ran 5K trail on Monday.
Strength training twice.
Out the door before it's too dark for an easy 6 mile trail run with my son right now (he rides his MTB while I run).

Trying to get the running habit going again...slowly.

Starting to get psyched about running, I've been daydreaming about a few big new loops in the local mountains.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Re: Re: training on 10/27/2013 19:33:54 MDT Print View

Ran a few times this week (x4 in total) and rode the singlespeed twice, focused mainly on effort over distance. My short runs early in the week were all up a route with nearly 1000' of vertical in 1.5 miles, steep and anaerobic inducing if you're not careful. I run the downhill hard back to the car for the turnover. Haven't been too keen on getting out for very long the last two weeks, so mixing it up has been enjoyable at the moment.

Yesterday morning I ran a 10 mile tempo on a pancake flat access road at about 7:40 min/mile and it hurt like hell, haven't felt that in some time! Not sure that it benefits me much for Zion, but we're still 5 months out.

I have to bail on a R2R2R trip in two weeks that a few of us here were planning. I can't go into it half hearted with only fair fitness at this point. I thought I would be cruising after Mt. Taylor 50K but I underestimated the recovery time and the brief time for getting back into a routine before Nov. 9. This change in plans has me reeling all the more for Zion in April.

For those of you strength training, what specifically are you doing and how does it compliment your running? This is something I want to incorporate with more specificity over the next few months. My typical weekly strength sessions consist of some bench and pushups, pull ups, chin ups, overhead presses with the 45lb. plate, and some simple core work with the 45lb. plate. Nothing special.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Re: Re: training on 10/27/2013 20:54:28 MDT Print View

Eugene, I could send you some circuits that I like a lot. I get most of my strength oriented training via Ross Enamait at Ross Training. I like his style quite a bit, pretty much an old-school boxing trainer. Quick, intense, no frills workouts that are primarily done with bodyweight and/or homemade equipment.

A sample circuit:
20 pushups
10 pullups
30 bodyweight squats
10 bodyweight rows (I do these on homemade rings/TRX style straps)
20 bridges/hip raises
Do entire circuit as fast as possible, no rest between exercises.
Do entire circuit 3-5 times, with 2 minutes rest in between each circuit.

They're good, fast workouts that can be tacked onto the end of a run, bike, or surf session as warmup.

He's got lots of free stuff on his site. I've purchased two of his ebooks and like them as well.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
strength training on 10/28/2013 06:51:58 MDT Print View

I do something pretty close to Craig's workout on one day- I vary the reps/sets but always include pushups, pullups, squats, situps at a minimum-the other day is a little more traditional weight training- bench, squats, cleans w/ some pullups/chinups/situps/dips mixed in- the reps are higher and weights lower than what I used to lift years ago

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: strength training on 10/28/2013 07:57:23 MDT Print View

October-December is typically my down time of year for running. (These Socal winters are brutal). I'm lucky to get 25 miles a week right now and haven't done a 20+ miler in 5 weeks.
Lots of strength training though, in the form of house remodeling, upper body is getting a great workout with concrete work, brick work, stucco, wallboard, plaster, painting, etc.
Need to do more stretching though, will try and restart that this week.

Dave -
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: strength training on 10/28/2013 08:57:20 MDT Print View


Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 13:39:44 MDT.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Re: strength training on 10/28/2013 09:03:38 MDT Print View

Excuse me, we'll call it exercise then.

Most runners are not trying to look like GI Joe action figures Dave. We've already beat this one to death.

Dave -
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Re: Re: strength training on 10/28/2013 09:59:48 MDT Print View


Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 13:41:31 MDT.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Strength training on 10/28/2013 10:18:43 MDT Print View

"So Craig, why do you 'exercise' with resistance circuits if you already run?"


Dave -
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Strength training on 10/28/2013 10:26:57 MDT Print View


Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 13:42:02 MDT.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Strength training on 10/28/2013 11:22:57 MDT Print View

We're having major semantics issues here Dave.

Dave -
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Re: Strength training on 10/28/2013 11:49:39 MDT Print View


Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 13:41:01 MDT.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Strength training on 10/28/2013 13:58:05 MDT Print View

The best American distance runner does minimal strength training. He does spend time in the weight room...

Rupp and Salazar in the weight room

He also has an underwater anti-gravity chamber. You want to purchase mine?


Edited by ngatel on 10/28/2013 13:58:58 MDT.

Ozzy McKinney
(PorcupinePhobia) - F

Locale: PNW
Strength/exercise on 10/28/2013 16:50:39 MDT Print View

I've been stacking wood this week. Not sure what definition that falls under, but it makes me sore. So I'm counting it as "something"...

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Strength/exercise on 10/28/2013 19:03:43 MDT Print View

doing body-weight "exercises" will definitely make you stronger, doing lower rep/higher weight exercises will definitely make you even stronger yet

obviously depends on one's goals; as this thread is discussing training for a 50 mile trail run, I'd personally lean towards higher rep/lower weight "exercises"

here's a "fun" workout to give a go- it's a crossfit workout called "Murph" (named after a fallen Navy SEAL)- it's a timed workout- hit the stopwatch and run 1 mile, then do 100 pullups, 200 pushups, 300 bodyweight squats, run another mile and hit the stop watch again

you can partition the pullups/pushups/squats in any arrangement you want- I broke mine into 20 sets of 5 pullups/20 pushups/30 squats

it's a really tough workout (at least it was for me!) 41:16 was my time the last time I tried it

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Mixing it up on 10/28/2013 20:18:27 MDT Print View

I just finished a 10K of mixed road and trail (about 50/50, relatively flat). 1:00:16 (about 9:45/mile...slow)

followed by:

20 pushups
8 bodyweight rows
25 squats
10 bridges/hip raises (feet on ball)
8 pike presses
2 minutes rest
Repeat X3

followed by

10 minutes stretching

Tomorrow I plan on running a mountain (5.75 miles trail, 1700' gain) and doing a fast ab workout afterwards).
Ab workout:
10 crunches
20 lying hip swings
plank for time
X3 sets


I've seen that SEAL workout Mike (or at least something similar) looks disgusting. I'm afraid to even try it.


It's raining and ocean conditions are terrible....meaning it should be a good running week for me!!!