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Bug Out Bag / Prepper Setup / Survival-based UL kit and philosophy
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just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Bugging Out on 10/05/2013 22:09:40 MDT Print View

I earlier wrote, "Also, remember, for a full collapse scenario, death will actually be much easier than trying to survive. There is nothing wrong with death, it's misnamed."

Some might ask, then why are you trying to survive such a scenario, why the prepping, etc, etc?

It's a good question, if i was a more selfish type person but still knowing what i know via experiences, i would gladly take the option of checking out. See yah later on the other side! A lot of other dimensions/consciousness levels are quite nice vacation places. Far easier and more pleasant than the physical. My selfish side would love such a vacation or retirement at a younger age.

But, i have the ability, the desire, etc, to help others on various levels and that's the sole reason why i will be trying to survive. Sort of relates to those feelings and perceptions i had when very little. I've come close to death a couple of times, and can honestly say, i have no fear of it whatsoever.

@ Don, i don't even know why it's called a bug out bag.

Daniel Pittman
(pitsy) - M

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Re: Bugging Out on 10/06/2013 23:19:03 MDT Print View

"@ Don, i don't even know why it's called a bug out bag."

Because it keeps the bugs out, silly.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Bugging Out on 10/06/2013 23:46:45 MDT Print View

"i don't even know why it's called a bug out bag."

It's hard to say for sure, but it has been a military term for at least sixty years, perhaps since the Korean War, 1950-1953. I was on the DMZ some years after the war, and we were in a delicate position on the DMZ. If we came under full scale attack from the north, we had approximately 15 minutes to "get the hell out of Dodge." The term in use then was that we would "bug out." Obviously, we could not move our total Army gear with us that quickly, so we were instructed to have a "bug out bag" ready to go in our barracks. That was to contain enough clothing and gear that it could be grabbed up and thrown onto the back of a truck for a very speedy ride across the river. We needed to have that to last us maybe for a couple of days. The bag was waterproof, in case we had to swim the river after the bridges were blown.

--B.G.--

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Bugging Out on 10/07/2013 00:02:38 MDT Print View

Bugging out is an old military term for breaking camp in a hurry when the battle lines change.

I remember discussing this when hurricane Katrina struck. Anyone with a good multi-day hiking kit has all the things needed for a long trek once the initial disaster has struck. People walk the whole continent on through hikes, needing only more food and fuel and most UL shoes will go 600 miles. In the Katrina example, once the storm had passed, someone could have walked hundreds of miles from the stricken area, provided they found treatable water sources and could supplement whatever food they had on hand. Even the food factor wouldn't be life-threatening for some time--- not much fun of course.

What is in my hiking kit that I wouldn't want in a survival kit? The whole idea of my gear list is to be self-sufficient in an environment that doesn't meet my needs to remain warm, dry, nourished, hydrated and "found."

Even my day hiking kit can cover these needs short-term and my multi-day kit can do it in good comfort for weeks or months. I might want to add a light folding saw for gathering firewood, which I normally wouldn't use for hiking.

Shelter
Sleep system
Extra clothing
Rain gear
First aid kit
Knife
Fire starting items
Lighting
Water purification and storage
Cook kit
Food
Signaling
Navigation

No need for zombie scenarios, just the ability to be self-supporting and to move out of an affected area as needed. I could walk to Missoula, Montana in about three weeks, Portland, Oregon in a week or Vancouver, Canada in 6 days and I can be deep into the Cascades in 2 days. No need for military style gear and I think my UL kit will give me great versatility and mobility.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Bugging Out on 10/07/2013 00:16:59 MDT Print View

Thank you for the humor and the historical lessons folks.


Dale, but what about in a complete collapse scenario, like what would probably happen with a Carrington like Solar event/really powerful and Earth directed CME?

I don't think the UL kit would cut it unless the person had some honed and well practiced bush craft skills, and even then, you would want some kind of hunting equipment whether bow or gun.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Re: Bugging Out on 10/07/2013 00:54:55 MDT Print View

"Dale, but what about in a complete collapse scenario, like what would probably happen with a Carrington like Solar event/really powerful and Earth directed CME?"

I worry more about a big seismic event with a total utility outage and major damage to all the local transportation systems. Surviving a major astronomical event on the long term is doubtful at my age. If I have shelter, food and water, I don't need much more bushcraft skills than gathering firewood and starting a fire. At best I would hope to be able to camp locally if my home is destroyed, or walk out of the area where I can find support.

If someone can walk from Mexico to Canada or cover 1000 miles in the Arctic with an UL kit, what else are you going to ask of it? Having the light weight would be an excellent advantage. So many want military grade gear, which I don't think is necessary. In combat, soldiers are carrying incredibly heavy loads with items like forearms, grenades, ammunition, communication gear, etc. A soldier may be required to run, dive for cover, crawl and scrape over all kinds of surfaces. Rock climbers probably come closest to that kind of use. Walking down a road or trail doesn't come close and the light weight will take me farther and faster to a place where I can get more support.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Bugging Out on 10/07/2013 01:59:42 MDT Print View

I understand what you are saying and i generally agree, except on a few key points, for example, "If someone can walk from Mexico to Canada or cover 1000 miles in the Arctic with an UL kit, what else are you going to ask of it?"

Those folks are still doing the above in relation to some sort of civilization wherein they can pick up food and fuel supplies at some place eventually. Not to mention phones, or emergency homing devices in case they get in real trouble..

No such luck in a complete collapse scenario, which is one of the reasons why i don't think a UL system would be practical for most under those conditions. Someone like Cody Lundin could probably get away with it, but not us average folk nor even most of the UL super hikers who rely on replaceable gear, buying food, emergency services if injured, etc. We're talking total self sufficiency, and even if one has that at home (solar, garden, farm, etc), no such luck staying in one place unless you live in a very isolated area and well hidden unless you want to fight to keep what you have.

Generally speaking, with a few exceptions, the more UL a kit, the less durable it is, and durability is a huge factor in a full collapse situation.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Bug Out Bag / Prepper Setup / Survival-based UL kit and philosophy on 10/07/2013 02:38:40 MDT Print View

"It's interesting how a percentage of NDE accounts involve people being given or shown info about major collapse and short term major challenges, testing, and intense suffering, but also of rebuilding and of golden era of universal compassion, respect for each other and nature, and a society free of all the various ills and imbalances and immense emotional and spiritual suffering that is so common place now. A truly happy and at peace humanity. I've been given glimpses of that in various ways also, and i really, really, really look forward to that. "

Wishful thinking. History tells me that taking away law and order you end up with something closer to the Lord Of The Flies.

What happens when the Police force in a town goes on strike ?
Now imagine no police/army whatsoever and see what happens.

BTW, I too wish for a better world but I see no sign whatsoever that humanity is capable of overcoming selfishness and greed.
One of the reasons, for example, that the Communist experiment failed.
The idea was not really flowed, people are.
But yes, walk out of town post collapse with your cart and a smile on your face and you will be the first one to be robbed.

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: London, UK
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bugging Out on 10/07/2013 04:01:55 MDT Print View

End of world preppers are just fooling yourselves. Seems clear to me if the world electric grid collapses and with every electronic device damaged beyond repair , no working transport, and hundreds of nuclear power plants in meltdown, imminent mass urban starvation and social breakdown with hundreds of million of rotting corpses laying about, would make any survival for the few beyond 30 days a living hell.

Edited by rmjapan on 10/07/2013 04:04:09 MDT.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bugging Out on 10/07/2013 07:28:23 MDT Print View

Justin, why do you keep pushing this topic from reasonable emergency preparedness to ridiculous hypotheticals?

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Bugging Out on 10/07/2013 08:33:40 MDT Print View

Researchers who have studied Ice core samples estimate that Carrington like Solar events happen on average about once in every 500 years. Smaller/less intense, but still potentially devastating to current technology, events are said to occur much more frequently. The electrical grid system in most countries (especially the US) is actually quite fragile. In 1989 the grid was knocked down for awhile in Quebec due to a strongish Solar event/geomagnetic storm.

We are currently in a Solar Maximum (wherein such events are most likely due the temporarily unstable nature of the Sun), and more specifically scientists think the Sun is about to flip its poles in the very near future, which is the period of a Solar maximum that is often the most unstable.

In the further past, these kind of Solar events weren't a big deal to humanity, other than creating pretty light shows even close to the equator. But in a civilization so dependent on electronics and electricity, and with Solar fragile system, we should be paying attention to this issue because such an event can EASILY cause full total collapse. A study was done which indicated that if a Carrington event happened in recent times, instead of in the mid 1800's like it happened last, that it would cost at least a couple of trillion in damages to the infrastructure. Really, when you factor in societal chaos, looting, etc, it would be worse than that imo.

Science, percentages, averages, and physical evidence aside i've had another side of life proven to me time and time again. This side, we could call the "non local". I believe that the fundamental reality is based on a unity, a oneness, and that all exists within a one field. I've been tuned into that side of reality to some extent since i was little (see Dr. Everywhere).

Both my wife and i have been given information in various different ways, over a period of time, that such a Solar event is a high probability in the near future. I care about people A LOT, so much so that i'm willing to appear ridiculous, "crazy", imbalanced or what not in public.

All i'm saying essentially is, "prepare for the worst, and hope for the best". Future is never completely fixed, only terms of probability. Note, i did not start this thread, but once it was started, i figured it was as good as any time to go more into this stuff.

So needless to say i really disagree with "ridiculous hypotheticals".

If you start to see the red skies pretty much everywhere, even close to the equator, then either make your peace, or if you want to be involved the long term of helping others and rebuilding a better, kinder society, then pack your bug out bag and pack it well, and get the heck out of any city and populous areas and back to nature. You can't stop people and society from going crazy and becoming very selfish, but what you can do, is to help others after things settle down some. That's my plan should this happen.

My last post here on this specific topic.

Edited by ArcturusBear on 10/07/2013 10:00:35 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
It's the end of the world as we know it on 10/07/2013 09:57:59 MDT Print View

"Wishful thinking. History tells me that taking away law and order you end up with something closer to the Lord Of The Flies."

My experiences in similar situations are as a peacekeeper in the Balkans in the '90s and as a first responder at the WTC.

I saw both sides of the spectrum; extreme evil and extreme good.

The genocide in the Balkans speaks for itself but I was always amazed at how resilient the children were. When we were out on patrol, we'd have dozens of kids come running out of their houses with ear to ear smiles waving at us. It's difficult to put into words but with the the destruction in the background, seeing these happy healthy children gave me a sense of hope.

I was stationed in upstate NY as an EMT and was just returning from breakfast when the second airplane hit the tower. I called my boss and told him to put me on the list to respond to the city. We were rotated in a couple days later. When we arrived at the staging area near Canal Street, I couldn't believe the reports I was hearing. Looters were opening body bags and stealing "souvenirs" like badges off of dead officers and firefighters and taking pictures of the bodies. There were reports of survivors making phone calls from inside the rubble; it turned out that these reports were later proved to be hoaxes made by people who were nowhere near the WTC. People were behaving so horribly that they had to deploy the National Guard to reduce access to Ground Zero. Not even considering how horrible the terrorist act was to begin with, seeing what my own people were doing to each other was enough for me to permanently lose faith in humanity forever.

But I didn't. Once it was our turn to rotate into Ground Zero, there were hundreds of NYers standing on the sides of the road cheering us on. As we waited for a patient to help, citizens who otherwise felt helpless in the rescue effort took action to assist the best way they could. Some of them just walked around with cartons of cigarettes for the rescue workers. Others drove around with coolers full of sandwiches and drinks. At the time, I still suffered from some occasional back pain resulting from my military service and would randomly pop my back and neck. Apparently someone noticed this and the next thing I knew, a jogger grabbed my shoulders from behind (insert prison joke here) and said "it's ok, I'm a chiropractor." He proceeded to adjust my neck and I felt like a million bucks. I'm not a touchy feely person and do not react well to people putting their hands on me uninvited all that well but I couldn't thank him enough before he ran off.

If society collapses, you need to be ready for the worst but you'll also see many more people rise to the occasion. The reality is that it takes over an acre per person of a well established farm to receive enough calories to survive indefinitely. You can survive for a period of time independently but in the long term, 99% of us will need to reintegrate with society to survive following a major calamity.

Justin,

Just shrug it off man. I love the BPL community but thick skin is occasionally required.

v/r

Ian

Edited by IDBLOOM on 10/07/2013 10:01:10 MDT.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: It's the end of the world as we know it on 10/07/2013 11:14:08 MDT Print View

Thanks Ian, but there is no problem, i didn't take it personally (well, i did for a handful of seconds or so). I can understand people's questioning, skepticism, or lack of tolerance with such topics. If i didn't have the experiences that i have had, i would probably be in a similar boat. But, i figured i probably have said all i can say about the specific topic of full collapse and why, and there's no point in continuing about it.

I may talk some more about survival gear, but in context of itself only and not in a broader context.



"and i feel fine..."

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
Bug Out Bag / Prepper Setup / Survival-based UL kit and philosophy on 10/07/2013 14:31:05 MDT Print View

Justin,
just as you feel that you need to pass on the messages aliens are giving to you (yes you are special, and so is everyone else...) I, as a skeptic, feel the need to tell everyone that no, that is just wishful thinking...
Forever some individuals have wanted to be special and feel that they know something others don't.
Same had God talking to them other animals and other still "aliens" .However simply going by historical evidence no matter what secret society/cult one belongs to or who talks to you, in your head ,there is no secret knowledge...

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster)

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Can the thread be saved? on 10/07/2013 15:19:48 MDT Print View

So has this thread gotten completely away from the OP questions (bag, volume, items), and we're down to personal philosophies and taking shots at each other? Ah well, it was interesting while it lasted.

Edited by Bolster on 10/07/2013 15:20:38 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Can the thread be saved? on 10/07/2013 15:44:52 MDT Print View

Some of us live in parts of California where the main catastrophic concern is The Big One (a major earthquake), so the only realistic scenario that we prepare for is to have major metropolitan population centers leveled and we would be "on our own" for a period of three to seven days. Then, the resources needed would be very basic, like clean water.

A study was done some years ago at the time of the Loma Prieta Earthquake. It was determined that in the event of another big catastrophe, family people are most likely to want to "hunker down" at their own home or whatever is left of it. Single males are most likely to "take to the hills" and leave the area.

--B.G.--

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: London, UK
Re: Can the thread be saved? on 10/07/2013 16:25:42 MDT Print View

Doubt it because the whole concept is ludicrous in any practical sense. Why? Because the SOP for any local, regional natural disaster is to shelter in place until help arrives. If your "place" is destroyed or too dangerous to remain in, you evacuate to the safest, nearest designated evacuation center. Only an idiot would pack off into the wilderness to try and live UNSUPPORTED for more than a few days. And what would you do if its the dead of Winter and you don't live in a mild year-around climate?

For disasters on a larger continental or global scale, natural or man-made, without electric power the refrigeration and transport systems are broken leading to mass starvation that will kill off the majority of the urban populations within 30 days. Illness and disease will get most of the rest. Only a hardy few will make it thru the first year. And if the Fukushima incident has taught us anything, its that a sudden complete/long term power failure will inevitably leave longterm environmental radiation consequences for anyone left.

Edited by rmjapan on 10/07/2013 16:29:31 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Can the thread be saved? on 10/07/2013 16:28:01 MDT Print View

The trick is to go cannibal early and never look back.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Re: Re: Can the thread be saved? on 10/07/2013 16:37:04 MDT Print View

Go Hannibal, go cannibal.

Edited by jshann on 10/07/2013 16:37:56 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Can the thread be saved? on 10/07/2013 16:43:04 MDT Print View

"If your "place" is destroyed or too dangerous to remain in, you evacuate to the safest, nearest designated evacuation center. Only an idiot would pack off into the wilderness to try and live UNSUPPORTED for more than a few days."

Living in the wilderness is precisely what 10k's of Cambodians did to survive the Khmer Rouge. I heard about the deep fried tarantulas before I traveled over there but after a little research, learned that this wasn't a traditional Khmer dish prior to the refugees having to expand their diet in order to survive.

Depending on which numbers you believe, there have been between 2.5 and 4 million people murdered ala genocide in my lifetime.