Speechless (not really)
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Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Speechless (not really) on 10/03/2013 16:45:05 MDT Print View

Follow this crappy scenario....

Park Ranger is working unpaid as she's essential but there's no budget. There are more rangers at the mall to keep things closed than there are when everything is open. For that matter, I've never seen a ranger at the WWII memorial as it doesn't need one so I'm completely dumbfounded as to why they would need to close it in the first place.

The best part? The representative is not only a congressman but is from the GOP and has the audacity to tell the ranger that she ought to be ashamed.

This hits a nerve with me as the rangers' job is often thankless but this is a new low.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Congressman-Confronts-Park-Ranger-Over-Closed-WWII-Memorial-226209781.html

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Speechless (not really) on 10/03/2013 17:02:37 MDT Print View

Meh. Same POS that yelled "baby killer!" during House debate. Same POS who, like many of his ilk, have never even served in the military. Just another in a long line of congressional POSs.

d k
(dkramalc) - MLife
Re: Re: Speechless (not really) on 10/03/2013 17:47:59 MDT Print View

Well, you just motivated me to try and contact the POS. His "contact me" page is conveniently malfunctioning at the moment, so I left my thoughts via the option to "report a problem with the webpage". Probably some poor innocent I.T. person will end up reading it...

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: Speechless (not really) on 10/03/2013 18:18:51 MDT Print View

I would say call his office to share your thoughts, but the staffers who answer the phones are probably furloughed....

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: Speechless (not really) on 10/03/2013 18:38:21 MDT Print View

"I would say call his office to share your thoughts, but the staffers who answer the phones are probably furloughed...."

Silly you. Congress and the Prez are exempt from the furlough. So while they have no problem taking pay away from hundreds of thousands of federal employees who work hard and get their jobs done, they continue to get paid for not doing much of anything.

For all the hate and venom they direct at federal workers, it certainly seems to me that they, actually, are the most worthless of all federal workers.

So, government too big? Yes, I'd say by about 536 employees, give or take......

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speechless (not really) on 10/03/2013 19:47:57 MDT Print View

That's actual members of Congress who're still getting paid. I'm betting their office staffs have been cut. All the better to ignore constituents. You know they aren't answering the phones themselves.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speechless (not really) on 10/03/2013 20:01:31 MDT Print View

And another beauty to that WWII memorial story is that the park rangers who were there showed up - voluntarily and without pay - to allow the Honor Flight veterans in, but to keep everyone else away.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speechless (not really) on 10/03/2013 20:07:59 MDT Print View

"That's actual members of Congress who're still getting paid. I'm betting their office staffs have been cut."

They have pretty wide latitude on whether or not to furlough their staffs. Some have furloughed some members of their staff, some have declared their entire staff essential personnel and haven't furloughed any of them.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speechless (not really) on 10/03/2013 20:14:46 MDT Print View

"Voluntarily" is not the word I would use here. She's an "essential" employee and is doing her duty in accordance with her oath. I'm not trying to sound calloused as I'm in the same position as her even though I don't work for NPS. I'm sure we'll get reimbursed at some point in the future but just not sure if that will be next week or in three months. Good thing none of us have mortgages or families or this would really suck.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Speechless (not really) on 10/03/2013 20:56:37 MDT Print View

"Yes, I'd say by about 536 employees, give or take......"

All it would take is for the American people to remove their collective heads from that place where the sun don't shine and cast an intelligent vote. Just once, and all this could change. But I'm not holding my breath.

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
Speechless on 10/03/2013 21:01:40 MDT Print View

What does an intelligent vote look like when half the population denies *very* basic science ?

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Speechless on 10/03/2013 21:06:25 MDT Print View

"What does an intelligent vote look like when half the population denies *very* basic science ?"

Good question. On second thought, maybe we'd better quit while we're ahead. :(

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Speechless (not really) on 10/04/2013 16:21:50 MDT Print View

"And another beauty to that WWII memorial story is that the park rangers who were there showed up - voluntarily and without pay - to allow the Honor Flight veterans in, but to keep everyone else away."

Jennifer...can you back that up, please. I was under the impression that they did not let anyone in and that the WW2 vets broke it down to get in the first day. Seems to me they are spending money on the materials to create a barricade where none should exist, on an open air memorial open 24/7. Waste of time and money just to prove a point. I disagree about the ranger, too. They should all be ashamed of themselves and should have just said "...no! I will not do that to our heroes. Come do it yourself". If good men and women fail to stand up to tyranny, that is when it is allowed to exist.

Matt

rangers

Edited by bigfoot2 on 10/04/2013 16:53:08 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Speechless (not really) on 10/04/2013 16:56:32 MDT Print View

"I disagree about the ranger, too. They should all be ashamed of themselves and should have just said "...no! I will not do that to our heroes. Come do it yourself". If good men and women fail to stand up to tyranny, that is when it is allowed to exist."

Closing a monument is tyranny? Unnecessary and politically driven, yes. Tyranny.... dude... you really need to get out more.... that isn't tyranny by a long shot.

You may not agree but that ranger put on her uniform, came to work unpaid, and enforced the laws that our democratically elected officials have written into law all while being belittled and second guessed by those who she is sworn to serve (the people and constitution, not the politicians).

If you're so quick to criticize, maybe you would like to share with the class what your contribution to society was today?

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Democracy? Really? on 10/04/2013 17:15:47 MDT Print View

"democratically elected officials"

Ian...we don't live in a Democracy...it's a Constitutional Republic. These two forms of government: Democracy and Republic, are not only dissimilar but antithetical, reflecting the sharp contrast between (a) The Majority Unlimited, in a Democracy, lacking any legal safeguard of the rights of The Individual and The Minority, and (b) The Majority Limited, in a Republic under a written Constitution safeguarding the rights of The Individual and The Minority.

Matt

Edited by bigfoot2 on 10/04/2013 17:38:52 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Democracy? Really? on 10/04/2013 17:33:40 MDT Print View

Thanks for the fourth grade civics class. Yes I understand that we live in a representative democracy. So semantics aside.....

Did you go to work today? That job, did it require for you to take an oath, for among other things, to do your duty and serve your country? Were you paid for that service? Were you called a Nazi by those who you are sworn to serve and protect? Did your elected representatives use you as a political pawn today?

If I had to guess, your answer is yes, no, yes, no, and no. Unless I'm incorrect, your words are cheap, your opinion is of no value to me, and this conversation is over.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Democracy? Really? on 10/04/2013 17:47:09 MDT Print View

Ian...I believe you still did not pass the 4th grade civics class, my friend...we do not live in a "representative Democracy"...sigh...

The chief characteristic and distinguishing feature of a Democracy is: Rule by Omnipotent Majority. In a Democracy, The Individual, and any group of Individuals composing any Minority, have no protection against the unlimited power of The Majority. It is a case of Majority-over-Man.

This is true whether it be a Direct Democracy, or a Representative Democracy. In the direct type, applicable only to a small number of people as in the little city-states of ancient Greece, or in a New England town-meeting, all of the electorate assemble to debate and decide all government questions, and all decisions are reached by a majority vote (of at least half-plus-one). Decisions of The Majority in a New England town-meeting are, of course, subject to the Constitutions of the State and of the United States which protect The Individual’s rights; so, in this case, The Majority is not omnipotent and such a town-meeting is, therefore, not an example of a true Direct Democracy. Under a Representative Democracy like Britain’s parliamentary form of government, the people elect representatives to the national legislature--the elective body there being the House of Commons--and it functions by a similar vote of at least half-plus-one in making all legislative decisions.
In both the Direct type and the Representative type of Democracy, The Majority’s power is absolute and unlimited; its decisions are unappealable under the legal system established to give effect to this form of government. This opens the door to unlimited Tyranny-by-Majority. This was what The Framers of the United States Constitution meant in 1787, in debates in the Federal (framing) Convention, when they condemned the "excesses of democracy" and abuses under any Democracy of the unalienable rights of The Individual by The Majority. Examples were provided in the immediate post-1776 years by the legislatures of some of the States. In reaction against earlier royal tyranny, which had been exercised through oppressions by royal governors and judges of the new State governments, while the legislatures acted as if they were virtually omnipotent. There were no effective State Constitutions to limit the legislatures because most State governments were operating under mere Acts of their respective legislatures which were mislabelled "Constitutions." Neither the governors not the courts of the offending States were able to exercise any substantial and effective restraining influence upon the legislatures in defense of The Individual’s unalienable rights, when violated by legislative infringements. (Connecticut and Rhode Island continued under their old Charters for many years.) It was not until 1780 that the first genuine Republic through constitutionally limited government, was adopted by Massachusetts--next New Hampshire in 1784, other States later.

Edited by bigfoot2 on 10/04/2013 17:49:47 MDT.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Re: Re: Speechless (not really) on 10/04/2013 17:52:03 MDT Print View

"Closing a monument is tyranny? Unnecessary and politically driven, yes. Tyranny.... dude... you really need to get out more.... that isn't tyranny by a long shot. "--Ian

"tyr·an·ny
ˈtirənē/
noun
noun: tyranny; plural noun: tyrannies

1.
cruel and oppressive government or rule.
"people who survive war and escape tyranny"
synonyms: despotism, absolute power, autocracy, dictatorship, totalitarianism,"


Sure fits my definition of the word.

“How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?” Winston thought. “By making him suffer,” he said. “Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own?” [1984 by George Orwell]

And that is exactly why the Obama Administration is closing the parks and monuments.

Matt

Edited by bigfoot2 on 10/04/2013 18:27:26 MDT.

Ken Miller
(Powderpiggy)

Locale: Colorado
Is it me or is it weird on 10/04/2013 19:35:39 MDT Print View

Our POTUS continues to use gun analogies to describe the current situation between the Democrats and Republicans over the government slowdown.

Seems weird for someone so intent on eliminating gun violence. I guess he must play Grand Theft Auto after hours.

It seems the world is upside down, yesterday Harry Reid was willing to let one child die to save 1100 of his voters.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Democracy? Really? on 10/04/2013 19:56:25 MDT Print View

While I meant the things I said, I said them in a way I regret.

Have a nice weekend everyone.