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Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday?
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Ken Miller

Locale: Colorado
Safety nets are fine on 11/17/2013 12:07:55 MST Print View

I agree with the idea of a safety net. Unfortunately for some it's a free ride and others it's a spider web that binds them to government control.

My issue with the President is his re-distribution ideas don't include creating wealth. Taking from Peter to pay Paul is short term and best, especially when Peter has a staff of lawyers and accountants.His middle class arguments don't deliver results, the middle class today is worse off than ever before. He's a lawyer surrounded by academics. A lawyer only thinks about we he can take, doesn't understand how to create more value.

Some think that government should not be run like a business. Well that's news to the Chinese, Germans and Indians. The world is a small place with finite resources. The cure for poverty is successful capitalism.

If you have to be born poor, pray that your parents are in the US.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Safety nets are fine on 11/17/2013 14:08:53 MST Print View

I agree, safety net can encourage dependance and laziness.

Personally, my college education was heavily government subsidized. Then I always worked.

I think the best thing the government can do, is heavily subsidize education. Then, people can get a good job, pay taxes,... Unfortunately they passed all those property tax reductions, so state had to pay more for K-12, so less is left to higher education, so it's more and more expensive to get higher education. And companies have a hard time getting highly trained people.

Yeah, middle class is worse off today than before, but Obama hasn't done anything for or against. The fact that higher education is ever more expensive is one reason for middle class stagnation.

So, what Obama ideas are redistributionist?

Warren Buffet said that there's a class war going on, and his class has won, and he's definitely a capitalist.

Businesses are run to make a profit. Government should collect taxes and efficiently and fairly spend it, so the comparison isn't real good.

I heard some state political figure interviewed. He said it was important to contribute to the pension fund each year and not be tempted to raid it in bad years. This is like the only state that has a healthy pension fund. Being careful to not have overly generous pensions and overly optimistic investment assumptions was also key. That should be the model for governments in my opinion.

Actually, I think 401Ks, IRAs, or 403Bs are better than pensions - you don't have to rely on a government or company to pay off in the future, but most liberals are opposed to this.

Ken Miller

Locale: Colorado
Buffett on 11/17/2013 15:14:09 MST Print View

He's an interesting guy, well know for his "I pay a lower tax rate than my secretary" comments. That's mostly because he takes the majority of his income as dividends, which are taxed at lower rate. Raising the rate would hurt retired people and others who use investments for income.

I always wanted to tell Buffet he's welcome to pay his "fair share", just write a check to the IRS for whatever he thinks is fair. But like most liberals, he really wants to use everybody else's money, not their own.

Colorado has a very generous pension for it's government and teacher employees. They used a 8% ROI to determine future values. Recently they lowered it to 7.5% which increase the un-funded liability to $29 B. The governing committees are comprised of mostly participants, so they like to sweeten the pie and ignore the future problems.

When you combine unfunded liabilities for SS, Medicare, and State/local public employee pensions, it makes the national debt look like laundry mat money.

Colorado voted against major initiatives supported by the NEA and Teacher's Unions. Amendment 66 would have raised income tax rate and was defeated by a vary large margin. Douglas County retained a conservative, reform minded school board that has made great progress in improving school performance. Jefferson county elected a conservative school board also.

In spite of Bloomberg, Bill Gates foundation and the teacher unions spending millions of dollars on TV ads, people rejected the old guard status quo. Even the Denver Post editorial staff thought the union should change it's strategy from "we need to spend more money on the union, umm I mean children" to doing real reform.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Buffett on 11/17/2013 17:29:17 MST Print View

Buffet gets most of his income from long capital gains, not dividends, but same difference.

Most retired people have their investments in a 401K, 403B, or IRA, so their income is taxed as ordinary income, they don't get preferred tax rate.

The preferred rate for taxes on dividends and long term capital gains goes more to the 0.1% and 0.01% wealthiest people than average people.

There is no economics reason for taxing dividends and long term capital gains at a lower rate.

Personally, I can take some advantage of the preferred tax rate for long term capital gains and dividends, so selfishly I should just ignore this, but I'm patriotic and want the best for this country. This is one of the factors that has caused the middle class to stagnate.

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Re: Re: Buffett on 11/17/2013 19:18:24 MST Print View

There is no economics reason for taxing dividends and long term capital gains at a lower rate.

Jerry, you understand that corporations are already taxed... I'm assuming.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Buffett on 11/17/2013 20:18:57 MST Print View

"Jerry, you understand that corporations are already taxed... I'm assuming."

Ha, ha, ha - condescending as usual Fred : )

Let's say a corporation makes a profit and pays a tax on it reducing the profit, and then gives some of the remaining profit as dividends to a stockholder who has to pay tax on it

Equivalent to me making income and paying tax, and then giving some to my gardner and he has to pay tax on it

Money is taxed again and again as it flows through the economy

Not totally apples to apples. For one thing, a corporation can write off all it's expenses but I can only write off a few expenses, like house mortgage interest and state income tax

But the real question is, will an economy be more successful if you tax just individuals or both individuals and corporations. Clearly it should be fair - some people shouldn't be able to make political contributions and get special tax breaks in return.

Average tax rate for corporations over the last 50 years has gone down from 50% to 20%. Super wealthy individuals from 92% to 15% but back up to 20% since the Bush tax cuts expired. Numbers just off the top of my head.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
ObamaCrap on 11/17/2013 20:40:01 MST Print View

" a corporation can write off all it's expenses "


Seriously, Jerry? Since when?

What's Deductible? -- A to Z (THE TRUTH):

Advertising. Your business can deduct all of the cost of advertising as a business expense.

Automobile expenses. The standard mileage rate for business driving in 2010 is 50 cents per mile. Alternatively, you can keep track of the actual cost of operating the vehicle, including fuel, repairs, insurance and depreciation, and deduct that amount. For 2011, the standard mileage rate for business driving is 51 cents a mile.

Bad debts. If your business loaned money to someone and determined in 2010 that it would not be repaid, the loss is deductible against business income on your 2010 return.

Banking fees. Charges imposed by banks for business accounts are tax-deductible expenses.

Bonus depreciation. For new business property acquired during most of 2010, businesses can deduct 50% of the cost of property as bonus depreciation, and depreciate the remaining cost under the regular depreciation rules. For assets to be depreciated over five years, for example, the total first-year depreciation deduction would be 70% of the cost. An even better deal applies for new assets acquired and put into service after September 8, 2010. For such property, 100% bonus depreciation is allowed, meaning you can deduct the full cost on your 2010 tax return. The same 100% bonus depreciation rule applies for assets acquired in 2011.

Business gifts. Up to $25 a year can be deducted for the cost of business gifts to any number of customers or clients.

Business meetings. The cost of business meetings that you or your employees attend is a deductible expense.

Carryback losses. Generally, firms can use net operating losses in the current year to reclaim taxes paid for the previous two years. Thanks to economic recovery legislation, however, in many cases, 2008 and 2009 losses could be carried back for as many as five years and bring a refund of taxes paid for those years. This rule was not extended to cover 2010, so net operating losses incurred in 2010 – including those created as a result of 100% bonus depreciation – can be carried back only two years to generate refunds of taxes paid.

Child care facilities. Employers can claim a tax credit of up to $150,000 a year for 25% of the cost of building and operating child-care facilities for their employees.

Commissions and fees. Commissions paid to salespeople and other workers are deductible.

Contract labor. Amounts paid to independent contractors who provide services to your business are deductible.

Credit card fees. Fees imposed by credit card companies to process charge card sales can be deducted.

Credit for alcohol used as a fuel. This is a credit available to small producers of alcohol and ethanol fuels.

Depletion. Depletion is the using up of natural resources by mining, quarrying, drilling, or felling. The depletion deduction allows an owner or operator to account for the reduction of a product's reserves.

Disabled access credit. If your company had gross receipts of $1 million or less in 2009 or employed no more than 30 workers then, it is eligible to claim a credit for expenses incurred in 2010 to improve access for the disabled, such as constructing entrance ramps or special parking spaces. The maximum credit allowed is $5,000. The first $250 of eligible expenses is ignored, and the next $10,000 of costs qualifies for a 50% tax credit.

Domestic production deduction. Businesses can write off 9% of their 2010 net income from U.S. production activities, including manufacturing, construction, mining, drilling and farming.

Depreciation. Depreciation deductions allow businesses to write off the cost of business assets over their “useful lives” as defined by the IRS – say, 3, 5, 7, 15, 20 or more years. For new assets put in service in most of 2010, a special 50% bonus deprecation rule was in effect. So, firms can deduct 50% of the cost of qualifying assets, plus a certain amount of the remaining cost depending on the asset’s useful life. For new assets acquired and put in service after September 8, however, there’s an even more generous rule: 100% bonus depreciation. That means the full cost of qualifying assets can be deducted on your 2010 return. (The same rule applies for all of 2011.) See also, Expensing.

Employee benefit programs. Businesses can deduct the cost of fringe benefits provided to employees, such as health insurance and retirement plans.

Expensing. Also called the Section 179 deduction, after the part of the tax code that permits it, this break allows businesses to fully deduct the cost of some assets placed in service that would otherwise be depreciated over many years. In general, for 2010 businesses are allowed to "expense" up to $500,000 of such costs. Firms that put into service more than $2 million of assets in 2010 gradually lose the right to use this break. Expensing might sound a lot like the 100% bonus depreciation mentioned above, and it is . . . although expensing was around before 100% bonus deprecation was created, and is likely to be around once that break expires. Also, expensing is generally for smaller firms – not the $2 million limit on acquisition of assets cited above. Also, unlike 100% bonus depreciation, expensing can be used to write off the cost of used business assets.

Goodwill. The cost of goodwill acquired as a result of a corporate merger can be amortized over a 15-year period.

Holiday parties. Your business can deduct the cost of holiday parties for employees.

Home office expenses. You can deduct the costs of a home office that you use exclusively and regularly for business. This includes depreciation, utilities and insurance for the office portion of your home. To qualify for the tax break you must either meet with clients there regularly or the home office must be your principal place of business (unless it is not attached to your house). You can pass the principal-place-of-business test even if you do most of your work elsewhere, as long as you manage the business from the home office and don’t have an office elsewhere.

Indian employment credit. Businesses get a tax credit for part of the wages they pay to members of Indian tribes who live on or near an Indian reservation.

Insurance. In addition to deducting the cost of health insurance provided to employees, businesses can deduct the cost of other types of insurance, including policies covering property and casualty protection, malpractice coverage and vehicle insurance.

Interest expenses. Interest paid on debt taken on by a business are tax deductible.

Investment credit. The investment credit consists of the rehabilitation tax credit, energy credits and the credits for qualifying advanced coal projects and qualifying gasification projects.

Legal and professional services. Amounts paid for legal and accounting services for your business are deductible.

Licenses. The cost of business licenses is deductible.

Low-income housing credit. Investors in projects that provide housing primarily to lower-income taxpayers can claim a credit for part of their investment.

Meals and entertainment. Fifty percent of the cost of meals and entertainment for clients is deductible, if you (or one of your employees) is present, the meal is directly related to or associated with the active conduct of your business and the meal is not lavish or extravagant.

Net operating losses. Net operating losses from your business generally are carried back for two years (triggering a refund of taxes paid) unless you specifically elect to carry them forward to future tax years. A special rule for 2008 and 2009, which allowed For 2009 (as for 2008), such losses can be carried back for as many as five years, was not renewed.

New markets tax credit. This is an incentive for investments in entities that lend money to firms in poorer areas. Investors get a 5% credit in the first three years on the money they put up and a 6% credit for next four years.

Office expenses. Office expenses such as bottled water services, janitorial services and the costs of window washing services are deductible.

Orphan drug credit. This credit is claimed by pharmaceutical companies on the costs of developing drugs to combat rare diseases affecting fewer than 200,000 people.

Passive activity credit. Credits from investments in activities you don't materially participate can only be used to offset the tax due on passive income. Credits that are disallowed by this rule in 2010 are carried over to future years.

Pension and profit sharing plans. Amounts paid for employee retirement plans are allowed as a deduction.

Pension plan startup costs. Small companies, generally those with fewer than 100 employees, are allowed a tax credit for the 50% of the cost of starting up new retirement plans. The maximum credit is $500 a year for the first three years of the plan’s existence.

Postage. You can deduct the cost of postage to mail business letters and packages.

Professional associations. The cost of membership in professional associations, board of trade and chambers of commerce is deductible.

Prizes and awards. The cost of prizes and awards given to employees can be deducted.

Reforestation costs. Owners of small timber firms can deduct up to $20,000 of timber reforestation costs. Any excess expenses can be amortized over 84 months.

Renewable energy production credit. A tax credit is allowed for energy produced from or wind, solar, geothermal and "closed-loop" bioenergy facilities, "open-loop" biomass, incremental hydropower, small irrigation systems, landfill gas and municipal solid waste facilities.

Rent. Your business can deduct amounts paid to lease office space. Special rules limit the deduction for rent paid in advance by businesses that use the accrual method of accounting.

Repairs and maintenance. Repairs you make to business equipment, office space, buildings and other property, as well as the costs of maintenance are deductible business expenses.

Research and experimentation credit. If your business increased its expenditures on research and development in 2009, you may be able to claim a tax credit for some of those expenses.

Self-employeds' health insurance. Self-employed individuals can deduct 100% of premiums paid for their health insurance, whether or not they itemize deductions on their tax return. This is a personal adjustment to income, not a business deduction.Note: For 2010 only, qualifying health insurance premiums can also be used to reduce the amount of Social Security tax due on self-employment income. You claim this tax break using line 3 of the Schedule SE; the income tax break is claimed using line 29 of the Form 1040

Special fuels credits. Producers of special fuels, such as alcohol fuels, low-sulfur diesel, fuel from nonconventional sources and from biodiesel, can claim tax credits.

Startup costs. You can deduct up to $5,000 of the cost of starting up a new business in the year the business is launched. Startup costs also can be amortized over a 60-month period.

Supplies. The cost of office supplies, such as paper, pens, notebooks, file folders, paperclips, scissors, rubber bands, appointment books, desk calendars and blank CD-ROMs can be deducted.

Tax paid on employee tips. Restaurants can claim a tax credit equal to the Social Security and Medicare taxes paid on tips that exceed the portion of tips treated as part of the servers' minimum wage.

Taxes and licenses. You can deduct the cost of Social Security tax and Medicare tax on employees' wages, as well as personal property taxes. Self-employed workers can deduct 50% of the Social Security and Medicare taxes they pay on their earnings.

Telephone. The cost of a telephone and long-distance calls for your business can be deducted, unless you operate out of your home and have only one phone line. In that case, you can deduct only the costs of separately billed long-distance calls.

Travel. The cost of travel overnight away from home can be deducted, including the cost of lodging, laundry and dry cleaning, tips to porters, and fees for fax services and Internet connections. You can also deduct 50% of the cost of your meals while on business travel away from home.

Utilities. The cost of utilities for your business is deductible, including electricity, gas, propane, heating oil, water and sewer fees.

Vehicle expenses. For 2010, deductions for vehicles driven for business can be claimed at 50 cents per mile. Add the cost of parking and tolls to the standard mileage amount. Alternatively, the actual cost of operating the vehicle, including fuel, repairs, insurance and depreciation can be claimed. For 2011, the standard mileage rate is 51 cents per mile.

Wages. Wages paid to employees are a deductible business expense.

Work opportunity and Welfare-to-Work credits. Employers are allowed to claim a tax credit for hiring members of disadvantaged groups, such as welfare recipients.


jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: ObamaCrap on 11/17/2013 21:08:05 MST Print View

I said a business can write off all its expenses

You gave a list of a bunch of expenses that can be written off, that's pretty close to "all" in my book

Seems like we're saying the same thing

What's an expense a business can't write off? I know there are some restrictions on entertaining, like "the three martini lunch". I think that's pretty insignificant and probably reasonable.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
ObamaCrap on 11/17/2013 23:26:25 MST Print View

No, Jerry, it can't write off all it's expenses. Close enough is not all. LOL.
What you consider “ordinary and necessary” may differ from what an auditor’s definition, or what the tax code has specifically allowed.

Commuting Expense is incurred when you drive from your home to your place of business. This is considered a personal expense and is not allowed. After all, wage earners cannot write off their commute so why should you? When you tally up your business mileage for the year, leave off this number. However, if you have a tax-deductible home office as your primary place of business, your vehicle expenses start there. You have no commute.

Fines and Penalties are not deductible. It may have been ordinary and necessary for you to speed and park illegally in order to arrive on time to an important business meeting, but those tickets aren’t deductible.

In fact, anything illegal is not deductible – this includes bribes and kickbacks. My favorite story is the one of the business owner who paid an arsonist to burn down his store for the insurance money. He sent him a 1099 and wrote off the expense. In a subsequent IRS audit, he fessed up and not only was the deduction disallowed but he also went to jail.

Life and Disability Insurance Premiums paid for yourself are not deductible as a business expense unless your business is incorporated as a C corporation. Partnerships, S Corporations, and sole proprietorships are not allowed the deduction for the owner(s) of the business.

Check with your tax pro about the discrimination rules and to find out how to properly structure employee benefits.

Professional Accreditation Fees such as those incurred to take the bar exam, get your accounting license, medical or dental license are not deductible. However, continuing education fees once initial licensing has occurred are allowed to be deducted.

Business Attire is not a deductible expense. I know you need a nice suit to impress clients, but Uncle Sam won’t allow it. You need jeans if you’re a contractor, but sorry, the IRS says those items are street wear and can be used personally. But if you need steel-toed boots or uniforms or protective gear or perhaps T-shirts for you, your employees, and favorite customers with your company name emblazoned thereon, go for it--you can write off those items.

Country Club Dues are not deductible. The IRS understands that you joined the club in order to better your image and to acquire new business. But you’re on your own with this one. In fact, memberships in health clubs, luncheon clubs, social clubs, golf clubs - any organization whose main purpose is to provide entertainment to its members or provide entertainment facilities for its members - is not deductible.

Tax Penalties incurred for failing to pay your estimated taxes timely or file your tax return timely or for substantially understating business income are not deductible. This includes tax penalties sustained with sales tax, excise tax, and payroll tax returns.

Travel Expenses for your spouse, children or any other individual are not deductible even if the person(s) is accompanying you on a business trip. You may only deduct expenses for a bona fide employee whose presence is required to achieve the business purpose of the trip.

Investment related seminars, even if you are interested in investing company funds, do not qualify as a tax deduction. Travel, meals and cost of the seminar are also not deductible.

Personal, living or family expenses are not deductible as business expenses or anywhere else on your tax return. These expenses should be paid from personal funds and kept separate from your business.

Charitable Contributions of time are not a write off. “I gave up my time and I could have billed it out for $500!” I know, I know. Even if you can assign a number to it, you can’t deduct it on your tax return. Your time means nothing to the IRS and that’s just how it translates onto the tax return.

Jerry, all this info is readily available on the IRS website. Check it out.


Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Buffett on 11/18/2013 04:18:18 MST Print View

-Let's say a corporation makes a profit and pays a tax on it reducing the profit, and then gives some of the remaining profit as dividends to a stockholder who has to pay tax on it

-Equivalent to me making income and paying tax, and then giving some to my gardner and he has to pay tax on it.

Uhmm, so if an individual owns his corp, you think it's fine to tax his company at something close to the personal rate and then turn around and tax the leftovers he passes himself, AGAIN at the personal rate?

Can you give me a reason why a c-corp needs to be taxed anyway?

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
AARP sold out the seniors on 11/18/2013 04:59:32 MST Print View

Ok, so this one took me a while to get the connection. Turds

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: ObamaCrap on 11/18/2013 08:06:29 MST Print View

Okay Matt, I see your point, I see I've hit one of your nerves : )

Most business expenses are deductible. There are always going to be rules and subjectively some things are allowed and some not.

Do you really think personal, living, or family expenses should be deductible as your business? Sounds like a scam to create a "business" and then use it to deduct all your living expenses. Or you can "become" a minister of your "church". There are people in jail that tried to do that.

But that's not my point - a business can write off (most) of their expenses which is an advantage an individual doesn't have so I'm not going to feel sorry for it not having to pay tax on the remainder.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
ObamaCrap. on 11/18/2013 11:59:12 MST Print View




Edited by bigfoot2 on 11/18/2013 12:09:10 MST.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
ObamaCare--The Truth. on 11/18/2013 12:47:26 MST Print View


David Olsen

Locale: Steptoe Butte
I raise a little Pope Francis then. on 11/18/2013 13:08:25 MST Print View

""While the income of a minority is increasing exponentially, that of the majority is crumbling. This imbalance results from ideologies which uphold the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation, and thus deny the right of control to States, which are themselves charged with providing for the common good. A new, invisible and at times virtual tyranny is established, one which unilaterally and irremediably imposes its own laws and rules." "

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: I raise a little Pope Francis then. on 11/18/2013 13:53:02 MST Print View

I think I'm going to become a Catholic : )

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Pope Francis. on 11/18/2013 17:51:44 MST Print View

I AM a Catholic, and the article was taken out of context and rearranged to fit the author's world views. Another case of the media putting a Socialist spin on his speeches.



Edited by bigfoot2 on 11/18/2013 17:57:23 MST.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Pope Francis. on 11/18/2013 19:35:46 MST Print View

He's also talked about how it's more important to worry about poor people than abortion and gay people

He prefers living in more plain housing than the fancy places previous Catholic leaders prefered

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
ObamaCrap on 11/18/2013 19:43:06 MST Print View

Not true at all, Jerry.

"Every child that isn't born, but is unjustly condemned to be aborted, has the face of Jesus Christ, has the face of the Lord," he said.

He denounced abortions as a symptom of today's "throw-away culture" and encouraged Catholic doctors to refuse to perform them. Pope Francis issued a strong anti-abortion message and cited Vatican teaching on the need to defend the unborn during an audience with Catholic gynecologists. Let's not get into this one here. We can start a new thread if you like, but please, get the facts right, will you?

On a side note...I noticed absolutely no one touched on a point I made in an earlier post about Obama having the Constitutional authority or not to change an existing law (ACA) all on his own on a whim. Why is that, hmmm? Could it be he doesn't? That he is violating the very Constitution he is sworn to uphold? Wait...that would make him...(GASP!)...a traitor??
Awwww...what difference does it make, anyway?

Edited by bigfoot2 on 11/18/2013 19:46:30 MST.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: ObamaCrap on 11/18/2013 20:34:11 MST Print View

I didn't mean to say he was in favor of abortion, just that relatively he emphasized careing for poor more, compared to previous popes. But I didn't really listen to it much...