Forum Index » Chaff » Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday?


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jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday? on 10/14/2013 08:25:14 MDT Print View

Okay, maybe you're right, Obamacare does add regulations to all health insurance.

But relatively minor effect on people with health insurance from their employer.

Major problem is that before Obamacare, healthcare costs have been increasing much higher than inflation until the cost is a major drag on economy, Obamacare is an attempt to fix it.

The discouraging misinformation is that Obamacare is the worst thing since Hitler : )

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday?" on 10/15/2013 09:05:44 MDT Print View

Matthew I'm not sure how you can say your higher premiums and less coverage are because of Obamacare...premiums have been going up, coverage has been going down and employers have been paying less and less for the past DECADE. Obamacare is an attempt to slow this stuff down OVER THE LONG RUN.

And I'm not sure you noticed, but Trader Joes said the reason they dropped part timers from their insurance coverage is because the employees could get a better deal from Obamacare than Trader joes could offer. BECAUSE IT WAS CHEAPER.

And no one said the law is perfect...all anyone has ever said is that it is a beginning, a place to start...and that will need to be tweaked and adjusted as problems come up. If we keep throwing everything out and starting over each time, how is the reform going to mature? You've got to start somewhere.

Again, what would your idea be????? Haven't heard a single peep about specific ideas that would be better than what is out there now.

As for letting states come up with it - that is already the case. Massachussetts came up with Obamacare and it was a raging success. Any state at any time can do its own thing - as long as it meets a minimum standard. Which, by the way, is simply designed to keep for-profit companies honest. No more charging people 100s of dollars a month in premiums for 10k deductibles and no real coverage. No more dropping insurance when people get sick, no more isolated risk pools that make coverage completely unaffordable to those who have medical issues, etc.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday?" on 10/15/2013 10:31:38 MDT Print View

Another reason for minimum standards is that if some states have better care, then all the poor people will go there and overwhelm them.

Another reason for minimum standards is that in this great country, some people should not just be thrown out on the sidewalk because they can't afford health care.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday? on 10/15/2013 11:54:06 MDT Print View

Dave, if ALL insurance companies have the same basic requirements, then how is any one of them at a disadvantage? Seems to level the playing field, eh?

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Re: Re: Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday?" on 10/15/2013 12:03:39 MDT Print View

@ Jerry

>Okay, maybe you're right, Obamacare does add regulations to all health insurance.
But relatively minor effect on people with health insurance from their employer.
-Really? So the employer just takes up the slack? There is a Dave Ramsey video (ACA) floating around on the net about free lunches and 8th grade (?, he probably meant to say 4th grade) math. I encourage you to watch it. Here is a link that I will provide at no charge. https://www.daveramsey.com/show/videos/dave-breaks-down-aca-obamacare

>Major problem is that before Obamacare, healthcare costs have been increasing much higher than inflation until the cost is a major drag on economy, Obamacare is an attempt to fix it.
-And it's pretty much kicked in the afterburner since this deal was first mentioned. 30% since Bama showed up. Thats better than CDs. My rates were bumping and participation was diminished at my company before this law was ever passed... to pad for the shock. I thought the scare tactic justification premature and off-base. I was wrong.

>Another reason for minimum standards is that if some states have better care, then all the poor people will go there and overwhelm them.
-While this makes no sense at all (giggling doubleface palm) can we just waive a wand and "declare" or "proclaim" all mininum standards are now in effect? That way there won't be any lines to see the DR., in Wyoming for example.

>Another reason for minimum standards is that in this great country, some people should not just be thrown out on the sidewalk because they can't afford health care.
-My wife works at a county hospital in a metro area. You should see all the bodies they throw out on the sidewalk. It's crazy. Paying customers can't even get in sometimes for all the bodies out front.


Art Laffer says this thing will be dead in 4 years, because it's such a cluster. That's opinion. He's a smart guy, provided lots of evidence, and I tend to agree with him on this one, but it's still opinion.
Dave Ramsey talks about the math. Math is typically free of opinion. If you got lost in some of Dave's tangents, yeah he kind of strayed a time or two, but the point is there is no free lunch.
We pay for the uninsured anyway, is an argument tossed around. So now are my property taxes going to go down since my premiums went up?

Jerry my friend, keep posting.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday?" on 10/15/2013 12:10:08 MDT Print View

I listen to Dave Ramsey sometimes

I like his financial advice, right in line with my saving 20% per year and investing in mutual funds. His idea of paying off smallest debt first rather than highest interest rate is really interesting - looks at it from a psycological perspective rather than mathematical

I have a hard time listening to him though because his religious and political views infect his otherwise good advice

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Re: Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday? on 10/15/2013 12:17:14 MDT Print View

> Dave, if ALL insurance companies have the same basic requirements, then how is any one of them at a disadvantage? Seems to level the playing field, eh?

Previous job of mine allowed me to see some of the regulatory effects on different entities. I can't be specific but one change to regulations/requirements I witnessed created a definite advantage for the larger companies. The compliance hurdles for the smaller entities couldn't be absorbed at those margins.

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday?" on 10/15/2013 12:22:57 MDT Print View

>I have a hard time listening to him though because his religious and political views infect his otherwise good advice.

What religion and political affiliation he be? Hope I'm not infected. On the other hand, I hardly ever see either one of those "infecting" solid numbers.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday? on 10/15/2013 12:36:47 MDT Print View

Okay, I listened to some of Dave Ramsey's video

"Fairly easy to surmise with critical thinking", says not to just parrot Republican or Democratic talking points, sounds reasonable

Then he starts parroting all the Republican talking points

If an insurance company has to cover everyone, the cost will go WAY UP - but doesn't give any numbers or anything, doesn't include the effect that the exchanges are more competitive so will cancel some of that out, doesn't mention the value of being able to get health insurance if you get sick

He said health insurance companies can't charge more for smokers which is incorrect

Then he brought up unrelated right wing talking points like that 46% of people don't pay income tax (which is sad that there are that many people that make so little income) and said they're freeloaders - but they pay social security at a higher rate than wealthy people and they spend their limited income at businesses that then make profit which gets taxed (although the right wing is working on further reducing that)

Or that if you could invest 10% of your social security in mutual fund you'de get more than social security pays out so the other 90% is sent to Washington and stolen - but social security goes to paying current costs, not stolenm so what it would hypothetically return if invested is irrelevant.

And Dave Ramsey assumes a return from mutual funds greater than 7% over inflation which is an indication that he steers people to his "preferred providers" which makes me skeptical he's just trying to con people out of some of their money.

That's why I hate listening to Dave Ramsey...

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Insurance increases on 10/15/2013 12:47:20 MDT Print View

My insurance through the Farm Bureau in Ca for family of 3 with huge deductible went from $147 in 2001 to $1100 in 2008.
I did pass age 50, so that was part of it. But otherwise insurance increases have been steadily rising since the turn of the century.

It appears to me it is rising health care costs, not the ACA.

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Re: Insurance increases on 10/15/2013 13:19:20 MDT Print View

>It appears to me it is rising health care costs, not the ACA.

Hummm I guess the spikes were not correlated to the announcements like our HR and providers elaborated about for 2 years. Yes costs have gone up too. I'd venture to say more of it can be attributed to the admin side than the product.

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday? on 10/15/2013 13:50:03 MDT Print View

> the exchanges are more competitive

You have repeated this until I think you actually believe it.

The other point is that you can't add a high risk individual to a low risk pool, without changing the statistical payout. To compensate, the company must increase the premiums. This extra cost can't just be ignored.


I don't think any of us, including yourself would want to sit through a table calculation demonstration.

I think the SS / taxes analogy was to illustrate what is proposed in the healthcare system. It will be a percentage of people putting into a system where a growing percentage don't contribute. Again, I know we already do that but I don't have any hope that one will be substituted for the other.

>but social security goes to paying current costs, not stolenm so what it would hypothetically return if invested is irrelevant
You sir, are a forgiving man. SS was sold to the taxpayer as a "retirement" fund, argued before SCOTUS as a tax, and diverted to the general fund. They didn't actually "steal" it. They already had it. Still actually illegal to do in the private sector.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday?" on 10/15/2013 17:57:29 MDT Print View

Week 1 enrollment #'s (pretty abysmal):

e

Edited by bigfoot2 on 10/15/2013 17:58:01 MDT.

Peter S
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Denmark on 10/17/2013 01:20:37 MDT Print View

Marc Eldridge wrote:

"We need to hear more from Peter S on why european socialism sucks"

Richard May wrote:

"It must. You took our place as the happiest country in the world! How long have you had this system? We've had ours for some 50 years.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/10301496/Denmark-the-worlds-happiest-country.html"

Hi Marc and Richard, sorry for the slow reply.

Richard, i' not sure, but we've had it a long time - being 31, i take it for granted, though the more i hear about the health care debate in USA, i begin to appreciate it more!

I hope that i will end my days having payed more to the health care system than i've used. That would just mean that i'm one of the lucky ones that had better health than the average person. Awesome!! How can that ever be a bad thing??

Of Course you want a public health care system that's effective and good, but to me, that's a total different discussion from the first and most important discussion: Do you want a public health care system or not? Solidarity or not? For a country that's quite religious, you would think the god almighty would appreciate that you help your fellow citizens? And i'm not even religious.

And for the record - we have a big private health care system besides the public one in Denmark, so you always have the option to buy whatever health service you could wish.

Good luck! :-)

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday?" on 10/17/2013 08:25:33 MDT Print View

I noticed that a majority of the Republicans voted to continue the shutdown and not raise the debt ceiling that would have had unknown financial effect.

Someone on MSNBC pointed out that if the Republicans weren't so stupid, we'de all be talking about how rocky the Obamacare roll-out is rather than what idiots the Republicans in congress and Crus are.

Maybe they will remember how this is hurting them more than the Democrats so we won't repeat this Jan 15.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Liberal Forbes persepctive on 10/17/2013 08:32:42 MDT Print View

The liberal magazine, Forbes, has this perspective:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/10/16/insani-tea-reigns-koch-brothers-fail-to-control-the-monster-they-created/

Yeah, this is the token, self acknowledged liberal that wrote it

The Koch brothers created these Frankenstein monsters (financed a bunch of "Tea Party" politicians) but now are unable to control them (get them to not shut down the government and raise debt ceiling).

The comments at the bottom are kind of funny. Except after a few it gets sort of old.

Ken Miller
(Powderpiggy) - F

Locale: Colorado
Watch out on 10/17/2013 12:32:59 MDT Print View

Jerry you really should not let your liberal bias overwhelm your thinking.

For the very few who actually watch MSNBC, there is little doubt of their far left leaning. From "I am a socialist Larry O'Donnell" to "Tickle my Elmo Chrissy Matthews" the message is always the same, bash the republicans prop up Obama.

As far as funding political groups, I suppose the money Soros and others spend on democrat causes is just good for the people.

BTW, did you ever figure out what your out of pocket cost were going to be for ACA. I still have my beef stroganoff waiting to be shipped.

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday?" on 10/17/2013 12:49:48 MDT Print View

@ jerry
Maybe they will remember how this is hurting them more than the Democrats so we won't repeat this Jan 15.

"Hey, our government got another credit card to run up and we're back in biness. That's how we roll."

Not sure of the source but I think it was hairy reed.

Dean L
(AldoLeopold) - F

Locale: Great Lakes
Credit Card? on 10/17/2013 13:08:12 MDT Print View

Since you listed this with the implied truthfulness of quotes("), can you actually list a source?

I can't seem to find this statement anywhere.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
paraphrase on 10/17/2013 13:22:02 MDT Print View

It is a paraphrase of this I think


"Unfortunately, Congress consistently brings the government to the edge of default before facing its responsibility. This brinkmanship threatens the holders of government bonds and those who rely on Social Security and veterans benefits. Interest rates would skyrocket, instability would occur in financial markets, and the federal deficit would soar. The United States has a special responsibility to itself and the world to meet its obligations. It means we have a well-earned reputation for reliability and credibility -- two things that set us apart from much of the world."

Ronald Reagan 1986