Forum Index » Chaff » Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday?


Display Avatars Sort By:
jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Protections? on 10/08/2013 14:51:23 MDT Print View

In Oregon, when I got laid off 8 years ago, the insurance company had to continue to cover me with a policy similar to what I had before.

That is a "protection" that Oregon offers and I'm willing to bet Texas does not : )

Obamacare is even better because you can get a policy even if you haven't been laid off.


"I'm not a big fan of insurance companies BTW but I do want to keep them around, hundreds of them, every one of them bidding for my contract."

Ahhh... sounds like you're a fan of Obamacare!


"If insurance companies are forced to insure people with existing conditions to the point they can't make a profit, health insurance will no longer exist."

If all insurance companies play by the same rules (having to cover pre-existing conditions for example) then none will be at a competitive disadvantage.

Under the old system, if an insurance company couldn't ignore pre-existing conditions, they would lose money and possibly go out of business.

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
What? on 10/08/2013 15:27:51 MDT Print View

Jerry dude...

You understand that it doesn't create more competition but kills it, yes? I don't think you do. It's fundamental to this discussion. Companies can't survive if they are forced to provide services or product at a loss, unless they are subsidized. That "S" word means taxes for you and me. Likewise, if a private company is competing against a subsidized or govornment entity, it's not a level field and they can undercut prices until the private company is without a buyer. This may not be what it looks like today, but it's coming.

Obamnacares, is nothing about competition, efficiency, or cost reduction. Never was.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: What? on 10/08/2013 15:47:18 MDT Print View

If all companies had to cover pre-existing conditions, they would theoretically have to charge a little more, but we would get something for that.

You understand the concept of competitive disadvantage, yes? I don't think you do

Obamacare has always been about reducing cost and getting health care for all.

and finding a compromise that would be passed, signed, ratified by supremes,...

Richard May
(richardmay)

Locale: Costa Rica
Re: What? on 10/08/2013 16:14:23 MDT Print View

> Obamnacares, is nothing about competition, efficiency, or cost reduction. Never was.

There probably some truth to that. It's about getting health care to as many people as possible under fair, humane, and compassionate terms. And that will cost money, whether it's through taxes or rates we all end up helping our mis-fortunate or mis-guided brothers and sisters. I think subsidies are a great way to help, via taxes, those at the bottom end of the spectrum. So, in this case both rates and taxes are used to make up for the slack, not just one or the other.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: What? on 10/08/2013 16:24:19 MDT Print View

But cost of health care has been increasing much faster than inflation and is now so large that it's a huge drag on the economy.

There are a multitude of reasons like that vlogbrother video detailed

Part of a solution to health care has to include making health care cost increase less than general inflation to gradually bring it a little more reasonable.

The question is much bigger than just whether you have subsidies to pay for people that can't affor it

Richard May
(richardmay)

Locale: Costa Rica
Re: Re: What? on 10/08/2013 17:19:21 MDT Print View

> Part of a solution to health care has to include making health care cost increase
> less than general inflation to gradually bring it a little more reasonable.

I realize this only addresses part of the problem, but Obamacare forces insurers to spend 80-85% of their income on their clients.

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Yep on 10/08/2013 22:02:21 MDT Print View

"You understand the concept of competitive disadvantage, yes? I don't think you do"

You have missed the point. Companies are already forced to participate in risk pools, at least in my state. Enter the government (fed) and the word competitive or competition can be scratched from the discussion. But then again, it shouldn't be federal issue.

If you want a single payer socialized model, and think it will be the solution (should warn you, it's been tried before), then have at it... in your state please, not mine.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Yep on 10/08/2013 22:10:51 MDT Print View

You have missed the point : )

If the federal government says all companies have to accept pre-existing conditions, then competition will be maintained.

Federal, state and local governments regulate companies and people all the time and we continue to have competition.

Don't worry Fred, the world is not going to end

Richard May
(richardmay)

Locale: Costa Rica
Question on 10/09/2013 06:38:09 MDT Print View

What is the relationship between the ACA and a single payer system? It's been insinuated that one leads to the other. How?

I'm trying to understand the underlying fear that drives this position.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Question on 10/09/2013 08:59:15 MDT Print View

"What is the relationship between the ACA and a single payer system?"

States have some flexibility about how to implement Obamacare. A state could propose a single payer system, and if it works could spread to other states.

That's sort of how it worked in Canada - it worked in some provinces and now all are covered.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Single payer... on 10/09/2013 09:09:43 MDT Print View

Yes Fred, you are right. It has been done before, by literally every industrialized country in the world except ours. They still use at least a part of it...in many cases supplemented by private insurance, but the basic coverage is single payer everywhere else but here. And guess what? People like it. A lot. We are generally ridiculed around the world for not wanting this...and I myself can't see why some of us are sooooo worried about what would happen if we took insurance companies out of the mix.

Frankly, if you think treatment decisions now are between you and your doctor you are sorely mistaken. They are between you, your doctor, and a private, for-profit company that sees nothing but dollar signs and profit margins and CEO pay and stock prices. I cannot tell you how many times I've had to go against my own clinical judgement because of the profit-driven insurance company

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday? on 10/09/2013 09:16:36 MDT Print View

Nothing like hearing it's probably cancer, but the tests are mixed & inconclusive, and the insurance co won't cover more tests

Our health care system is a for profit joke.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday? on 10/09/2013 09:22:13 MDT Print View

our government is a for profit joke : )

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Re on 10/09/2013 09:22:56 MDT Print View

"Federal, state and local governments regulate companies and people all the time and we continue to have competition."

I work in a heavily regulated industry. Pick an industry that is efficient, competitive, and gives the most bang for the buck, and I'll bet you it's not a regulated field. The finance industry, banks, insurance, etc., are already heavily regulated. Don't confuse regulation with subsidies.

"If the federal government says all companies have to accept pre-existing conditions, then competition will be maintained."

That already exist Jerry. Do you read the other post? But if the requirements are so much that the industry is not profitable, THERE WILL BE NO ONE LEFT TO COMPETE, except the subsidized/gov't plan. Look at this damn thing ten years down the road, not 180 days. They want a single payer system, no competition. The administration has come out and said exactly that. This is how we get there. I'm not sure you will get it however, until you finally put your hand on the stove.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re on 10/09/2013 09:35:29 MDT Print View

"Pick an industry that is efficient, competitive, and gives the most bang for the buck, and I'll bet you it's not a regulated field."

That only exists in an economics class, there are no competitive, efficient industries in reality.

You can have government regulated industries.

Or you can have monopolistic industries where they spend lots of energy trying to eliminate competitors and then raise prices - like steel, railroads, oil in the early 1900s. Or Microsoft


"They want a single payer system, no competition"

That doesn't really bother me.

But, Medicare has been around more than 10 years and health care companies compete on selling Medicare Advantage policies. My wife gets Medicare and we get bombarded with junk mail asking her to sign up with their policy.


Actually, that's not a bad system, sort of like building highways. The government puts out a proposal. Companies bid on it. One or more are selected and they do the work with government supervision.

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Okie dokie on 10/09/2013 10:05:27 MDT Print View

> That only exists in an economics class, there are no competitive, efficient industries in reality.
Really?



"They want a single payer system, no competition"

>That doesn't really bother me.

Why didn't this surprise me? Maybe your lack of logic clued me in. Before you praise single payer systems, you may want to do some research. You might change your mind.

Richard May
(richardmay)

Locale: Costa Rica
Re: Question on 10/09/2013 10:20:04 MDT Print View

I see a lot of huffing and puffing and no elbow grease. If accusations are going to be made about a persons lack of logic please put your own out there too. Back your statements up, hopefully with sources.

The happiest countries in the world all have single payer systems or mandates. Costa Rica was number one last year, now it's 12. We have one of those dreaded systems too. And we aren't even all that rich.

Actually Fred, you should be proud to be in the United States. It's one of the last countries in the world to succumb to the communist plot of world dominion.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Okie dokie on 10/09/2013 10:21:55 MDT Print View

"Before you praise single payer systems, you may want to do some research. You might change your mind."

All the other Western countries seem to be doing better with various degrees of single payerness

Yet we should learn from other countries

Like in Britain, all the doctors are government employees, but there are problems with this so maybe we shouldn't do that

Some of the Norwegian countries are re-thinking how much socialism they want and are moving back towards capitalism some. Someone from Denmark (?) said that you get free room and board if you're in school, so people just drag out the period they're in school, so maybe you shouldn't get free room and board, just tuition...

We got Obamacare. We should see how it works and fix things that don't work. Difficult with the tea party policy of #1 priority being to defeat Obama, but over 10 years this will probably change.

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
? on 10/09/2013 10:40:30 MDT Print View

"We got Obamacare. We should see how it works and fix things that don't work. "

Yeah. Let's take the whole country, almost one quarter of the economy, and try this big experiment.

Try your plan in Washington st., and when it works so well, is affordable, and the services don't suffer, I'll urge my state rep to adopt it.

Glad you brought up the tea party and their goals.

Richard May
(richardmay)

Locale: Costa Rica
Re: ? on 10/09/2013 10:55:33 MDT Print View

> Try your plan in Washington st., and when it works so well, is affordable,
> and the services don't suffer, I'll urge my state rep to adopt it.

Fear of failure is a major block to innovation. To innovate you must fail, learn from the mistake an correct it.

If one is to achieve anything risks must be taken.