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Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday?
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Richard May
(richardmay)

Locale: Swamplands.
Re: Solutions on 10/05/2013 06:48:34 MDT Print View

Fred, would you object to expanding and re-enforcing the existing safety net so it went beyond emergency care and covered preventive care for those who cannot afford or do not believe in buying insurance, people between jobs without insurance, with jobs that do not provide insurance and still can't afford it?

Interestingly, States are allowed to create alternatives to the ACA. Until they do, however, they must use ACA. The states' system can be a mandate or, single payer or, whatever creative system it can devise but it must meet certain minimum standards if it is to leave the ACA.

Don't like the ACA in your state? Just go and create a viable alternative.

Edited by richardmay on 10/05/2013 07:05:21 MDT.

d k
(dkramalc) - MLife
Re: Solutions on 10/05/2013 08:33:09 MDT Print View

Fred, would you please answer my questions? I am trying to get a sense of what you think here, but all I can tell is that you don't want the ACA in place. Thanks.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Solutions on 10/05/2013 10:07:48 MDT Print View

This isn't aimed at Fred rather than the world in general. "Solutions" seem to be lacking from those who are adamantly opposed to ACA. I'm opposed to certain aspects of it for sure and it's difficult to sift through all of the hyperbole and propaganda to determine what the facts are exactly.

My point? My co-worker plays A.M. talk radio all day at work which in my opinion, even as a person who self-identifies as a fiscal conservative, that listening to these talk shows is nothing short of cruel and unusual punishment. I loathe the Hannity's and Beck's of the world but my largest gripe against them is that all they do is complain and never offer a solution or proposed course of action. If anyone has a better idea, then offer it or stop complaining. Again, not aimed at anyone on this thread.

As a fiscal conservative, it's plain to me that we're bleeding money trying to keep an inefficient healthcare system limping along. If a more affordable system is available which happens to be a pseudo-social program, then I'm all for it. If there will be unintended consequences of unemployment or the quality of our current healthcare system regresses, then I'm obviously opposed. I really have no idea (nor do my elected officials) how this will all work out but I'm trying to keep an open mind and learn as I go.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 10/05/2013 10:59:49 MDT.

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Unintended consequences? on 10/05/2013 17:38:44 MDT Print View

Ian... I am already seeing some of the unintended consequences. I know people personally who have had their rates and contributions go up or the terms negotiated down, businesses halting expansion, and friends in the medical field prepping for worst case when this law was first mentioned. The uncertainty may be worse than the bill itself. Talked to a gentleman this morning that told me the State's risk pool would no longer have the same administrator. Meanwhile the Doctors that are refusing Medicare is the real deal and private network contracts are becoming the thing to do, if you can get in and afford it.

d k. My first wish would be for the fed to stay out out it, plug the medis, and roll it out to the states. Open up the cross state competition and eliminate the barriers to entry. Ex, I don't think you are able to co-op a health care pool. There has got to be a way to eliminate some of the regulatory pressure and still maintain a solid system. This would have to cut some of the administrative costs eventually. Again let the states figure it out. Some will have more issues than others. I'm not sure how the demographics / tables differ state to state, but you can expect the border states to be burdened more by illegals for example. Beef up the risk pool ( if we still have one) and make coverage available. I'm assuming companies still pay to play in my state. While I accept the fact that this drives my premiums, I think most are ok with it. Concierge agreements and co-ops, I don't know how it all fits together, but things need to get leaner and we're currently headed the other way.


My wife works at a large county hospital, I have friends on the supply side, and I'm in an occupation that requires a life and health license...but I certainly don't claim to have the answer. If states had the freedom to customize their own systems, however, I'm sure it would be more efficient than a one size fits all plan from DC.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Swiss to Vote on Guaranteed $2800 Monthly Income for All Adults on 10/06/2013 08:19:47 MDT Print View

"In response to growing inequality in the European bastion of wealth, a grassroots committee has forced a referendum on whether the state should guarantee $2800 in monthly income, allowing the Swiss to continue their lives of sport and leisure, unencumbered by the horrible, desperate slog of poverty.

The money for their socialist utopia could come from their social insurance system, which already provides them with universal health care (they pay some premiums, depending on if they can afford it)."


http://gawker.com/swiss-to-vote-on-guaranteed-28-000-monthly-income-for-1441514881?utm_campaign=socialflow_gawker_facebook&utm_source=gawker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Swiss to Vote on Guaranteed $2800 Monthly Income for All Adults on 10/06/2013 09:49:17 MDT Print View

Never mind.
Misunderstood the point of the post, apparently.

Edited by Kat_P on 10/06/2013 17:09:41 MDT.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Swiss to Vote on Guaranteed $2800 Monthly Income for All Adults on 10/06/2013 16:48:58 MDT Print View

"In response to growing inequality in the European bastion of wealth, a grassroots committee has forced a referendum on whether the state should guarantee $2800 in monthly income, allowing the Swiss to continue their lives of sport and leisure, unencumbered by the horrible, desperate slog of poverty."

Sounds pretty enlightened to me. From your post, I'm guessing you don't think much of the idea. Could you tell us why? If I misread your post, my apologies in advance.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Swiss to Vote on Guaranteed $2800 Monthly Income for All Adults on 10/06/2013 16:54:22 MDT Print View

"Sounds pretty enlightened to me. From your post, I'm guessing you don't think much of the idea. Could you tell us why? If I misread your post, my apologies in advance."

FWIW, David's entire post was simply a quote from the article referenced. None of the words are his.

One of my favorite comments from the referenced article: "Everyone knows Switzerland is a filthy communist hell hole with high literacy and life expectancy. Its unfair for the government to force people to live longer, happier lives."

Edited by idester on 10/06/2013 16:57:38 MDT.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Swiss to Vote on Guaranteed $2800 Monthly Income for All Adults on 10/06/2013 17:06:23 MDT Print View

"FWIW, David's entire post was simply a quote from the article referenced. None of the words are his."

Ah. I missed the trailing quote. Good thing I apologized in advance. :o)

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
swiss to Vote on Guaranteed $2800 Monthly Income for All Adults on 10/06/2013 18:36:31 MDT Print View

My only point- the wide variety of thought in this world.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: swiss to Vote on Guaranteed $2800 Monthly Income for All Adults on 10/06/2013 19:49:33 MDT Print View

"My only point- the wide variety of thought in this world."

Then let us celebrate diversity, beginning with my apology to you for impugning your motives. :)

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: swiss to Vote on Guaranteed $2800 Monthly Income for All Adults on 10/06/2013 20:05:58 MDT Print View

"Everyone knows Switzerland is a filthy communist hell hole with high literacy and life expectancy. Its unfair for the government to force people to live longer, happier lives."

LMAO!

It's sad that I get better news from The Daily Show than I do from the other guys. John Stewart said something a while back that I'll paraphrase horribly but basically it was "People say that the government which governs least governs best but I think that the government which governs _best_ governs best."

Edited by IDBLOOM on 10/06/2013 20:50:05 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Swiss to Vote on Guaranteed $2800 Monthly Income for All Adults on 10/07/2013 19:24:20 MDT Print View

""In response to growing inequality in the European bastion of wealth, a grassroots committee has forced a referendum on whether the state should guarantee $2800 in monthly income..."

There was a similar movement in U.S. Maybe 1970?

In the height of the welfare and other liberal programs

The conservatives barely stopped it, and since, the pendulum has way swayed to the conservative side, but in the last 6 years, the pendulum had swung back some

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday? on 10/07/2013 19:29:19 MDT Print View

I've seen that vlogbrother video - good points. They have other great videos too. Maybe they "drink too much coffee?"

What did he say, it's complicated and no simple solution. Maybe biggest problem is there isn't enough competition so health care is expensive. Obamacare addresses that, so maybe will makes things better. Obamacare also addresses some other issues they mention.

Assuming the conservatives don't kill it, it will be interesting to see how things go in a few months or years when it's actually implemented.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday? on 10/08/2013 00:03:21 MDT Print View

Oregon Obamacare website is up

It costs me $616 a month currently without Obamacare

It'll cost $499 to $576 with Obamacare - same health insurance company - a little cheaper - I don't know if that's apples to apples

I think I'm in one of those states where Obamacare is cheaper

In a state like Texas where you don't have so many protections, Obamacare will cost more, because Obamacare includes protections like getting insured even if you have pre-existing conditions

Richard May
(richardmay)

Locale: Swamplands.
Re: Re: Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday? on 10/08/2013 06:04:40 MDT Print View

> What did he say, it's complicated and no simple solution.

That's the thing about health care. Unfortunately ego's cloud judgments and we (yes, all of us) tend to forget that there is more than one way to skin a cat. It's unfortunate when idiotology interferes with finding a solution.

If we set our egos aside, leave idiotology to be the mere concepts they really are, and roll up our sleeves to the goal of providing health care to the largest population possible we would succeed. The starting point could be anything from de-regulation to state owned health systems. It really doesn't matter. Either extreme has great failings.

When our goal is compassion and human-well-being the pitfalls of either approach can be compensated and a balanced system can be created. It's just a matter of being able to put egos and idiotologies aside and serve the greater good instead.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday? on 10/08/2013 10:28:01 MDT Print View

"idiotology"

Not sure if you did that on purpose, but I like it!

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who is signing up for ObamaCare (aka ACA) on Tuesday? on 10/08/2013 10:29:40 MDT Print View

new word for my vocabulary

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Protections? on 10/08/2013 12:56:09 MDT Print View

@ Jerry

"In a state like Texas where you don't have so many protections, Obamacare will cost more, because Obamacare includes protections like getting insured even if you have pre-existing conditions"

Protections means exactly what?
If insurance companies are forced to insure people with existing conditions to the point they can't make a profit, health insurance will no longer exist.
If the federal government subsidizes a plan that competes with the existing insurance companies, health insurance will no longer exist. It's not more competition. Private companies cannot compete with the government because the government does not have to operate at a profit to sustain itself.

If it is cheaper to pay the fine, and then get on the ACA plan after one gets sick, why would it suprise anyone when people do exactly that?

Can I ask you guys, seriously, if any one of you thought this (ACA) would make things less expensive or not have a negative effect on services (overall)? Add more insured (at least that was the goal, wink-wink), more compliance, more government employees to implement and monitor, with the number of Dr.s fixed or anticipated to decline, and tell me you seriously thought the cost would go down? We are well on our way to a more defined two tiered health care system.

I'm not a big fan of insurance companies BTW but I do want to keep them around, hundreds of them, every one of them bidding for my contract.

Edited by BFThorp on 10/08/2013 13:26:30 MDT.

Ken Miller
(Powderpiggy)

Locale: Colorado
Socialized medicine on 10/08/2013 14:09:01 MDT Print View

ACA is just a step for the ultimate goal of socialized medicine, or single payer since progressives have to speak in code. The insurance industry can not survive being forced to cover pre-existing conditions, price controls and being forced to insure everyone.

Once your 27 and not a child in eyes of the government, why buy insurance? Pay the penalty, if you get sick buy a policy and get the care you need.

It's like, don't buy car insurance, wreck your car, call the Gecko and get insured and they'll pay for your repairs.

Here in Colorado, there are doctors and hospitals beginning to advertise premium services to those who can pay. No waiting time, 2 hour consultations, half day physical exams, all at a cost of course.

The rest of us will feel like we're in the Emergency room on a Sunday!!