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3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure
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Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Report from Zion on 02/19/2014 09:21:10 MST Print View

thanks David.

if you're going again, I'll try and think of some things you could check on.

yeah too early for water caches, maybe the day before for them.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: Re: Report from Zion on 02/19/2014 09:38:14 MST Print View

I've always had a remote chance of making it that weekend (24,000 miles so far this year is already a lot of flying and I'll be coming off a weeklong family vacation) and I'd be hiker for only 20 miles or so. But I could shuttle people around or schlep water into a cache location. I'll let you know if I can commit to that - I need to wait to see how some work scheduling shakes out.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: Re: Report from Zion on 02/19/2014 09:52:29 MST Print View

great - hope you can make it.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: Re: Re: Report from Zion on 02/19/2014 17:55:38 MST Print View

David- thanks for the recon info! Would be great to see you if you can make it


Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Report from Zion on 02/24/2014 12:03:25 MST Print View

David, Thanks for doing that legwork! And thanks to everyone who has been chipping away at the logistics, as I have done nothing to contribute on that end.

If you guys will bear with me for a second, I just want to make sure I've got my head wrapped around this and that I'm current on the plan since I've been absent of the forum lately...

- Staying at Watchman Camp (Thanks Mike, let me know how to cover my part)
- Running West to East
- Start is at Lee's Pass
- Finish is at the East Entrance via East Rim Trail
- Bailout is at the Grotto

? There are a few places to drop water (& food?) listed by Art, what do they coincide with on the map?
? Beta plan is to leave vehicles at the Grotto for those who exit there?
? Beta plan is to hire shuttle to get us to the west side early in the morning?
? Alternate beta plan is to use non-running drivers for early morning transport?

David's suggestion of finding some non-running volunteers to post up at the bailout to provide aide as runners check in is a good idea. Maybe they can show up at some pre-determined time and hang until all have checked in. Would be nice to devise some simple way of keeping track of who has checked in also, just for clarity of knowing who has pressed onto the finish and who has yet to arrive at the bailout point.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Report from Zion on 02/24/2014 12:20:51 MST Print View

Watchman - yes
west to east - yes
start Lee pass - yes
finish east entrance - yes
bailout mile 36.7 Grotto - yes (cars not allowed here, shuttle bus to campsite)

potential water drops per Skurka's mapset
mile 14.1 road crossing
mile 22.5 picnic area (a short distance from trail not sure how far)
mile 36.7 water fountains
natural water sources in some places, bring a filter or other method

Grotto bailout - again no cars allowed, shuttle only

Still working on :
1. paid shuttle or BPL volunteers to get us to start
2. how many vehicles to leave at finish and how they relate to timing of finishers.

Edited by asandh on 02/24/2014 12:22:13 MST.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Report from Zion on 02/25/2014 09:42:55 MST Print View

Thanks for the clarification, Art. It's just about all congealed for me now :)

It would be nice if we have a couple of non-running folks that we can sweet talk into driving us to the start (à la our conspicious van tour to the J Tree jumping off point) that way any jackets, uneaten snacks, etc... can just go back to camp with the drivers, and other than a little gas money and beer bribery it would be relatively inexpensive.

I may bring my Dad along with me, he can probably help out with the driving. I'm not sure how many other non-runners will be there but it seems like we should be able to pull something together.

By the way, last time I talked with David Wage (we just got back from a snow trip) he mentioned that he was probably in the "unlikely" category now. I will definitely be there, barring any emergencies that keep me away.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Running Vest? on 02/25/2014 10:02:49 MST Print View

So, I'm hoping to get some perspective from you more experienced guys on what I might want to bring as far as a vest/pack goes...

Last year after J Tree I picked up an Ultimate Direction SJ vest since Mike's AK looked pretty sweet. I like the bottles up front but it didn't offer much more room than my Nathan HPL 020 with a bladder in back. Since I expect to use both bottles and the bladder at Zion I'm wondering if I might be a little tight on space for food and/or extra clothes?

I'll probably run in tights and a light tee shirt.

That would leave me carrying a pair of shorts, windshirt, and extra socks. Also a small first aid kit, headlamp, a Sony RX100 camera, compact water filter, and maybe my phone (is there cell service at the Grotto or anywhere along the road?). That leaves food & fuel.

Is there any chance we'll be able to make a food drop near the Lava Point area? If so, that could lighten the load considerably.

I'm left wondering if I should think about taking a running pack with a little more room. I could upgrade to the PB, not sure if that's overkill. Any input here is appreciated. I'm sort of dreading the weight. I can say at J Tree my Nathan was *stuffed* and that was with a food cache.

Edited by JacobD on 02/25/2014 10:04:59 MST.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Running Vest? on 02/25/2014 10:11:55 MST Print View

Jacob - the day before the run I'd like to scope out the 2 potential water drops and possibly drop some water.
but if we can get a water volunteer, that would be better as we would not have to drive back up to pick up the bottles on Sunday.
if we had a volunteer, they could hold some food for you.
I'd be nervous about a simple food drop.
however, my personal rule is to carry all food/fuel from start to finish and not rely on external support. the food is essential for me and I don't want to take a chance.
half the food is only an extra lb. at most.
I also always tend to bring a bit more clothing when going FKT style which adds another lb.

the pack John V. and I use for stuff like this is the Black Diamond Bbee. simple, light weight, big enough, rides fairly well at slow speeds.

for the Grand Canyon RRR my starting pack weight was 5.8 lb.
(not including water which was 2 hand helds)

food - 2.7
clothing - 1.85 (included full shell)
pack & misl. - 1.25

for Zion it will be similar

Edited by asandh on 02/25/2014 10:20:29 MST.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
pack on 02/26/2014 19:23:12 MST Print View

Jacob- I really my AK pack, but w/ cooler temps possible (vs Joshua Tree) I'll be carrying a larger pack and more clothing.

I'll most likely be using my MH Fluid 6, nice little running pack w/ adequate room for a few insulating layers (and other bits if one had to tough a night out)

In addition I'll probably go w/ a single handheld for my Perpetuem


Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: pack on 03/04/2014 10:46:30 MST Print View

Art/Mike I ended up grabbing the new PB. I think it's going to work good for me, despite being a little heavy.

Looks like I'm coming out by myself. My Dad didn't feel up to it and it sounds like David Wage is probably not going to be able to make it (although that's not 100%).

If I fly into Vegas, is it possible I can carpool with any of you? If that sounds do-able I can work my flight around either a Thursday or Friday arrival and pick one that gets me there at a decent time.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: pack on 03/04/2014 11:10:40 MST Print View

I'd like to check out the PB pack, you're bringing it ?

John V. and I are heading up for a late Thursday night arrival.
We will be driving thru Vegas.
current estimate is to pass thru Vegas around 7pm +- an hour or so.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: Re: Re: pack on 03/04/2014 14:04:07 MST Print View

Art, I will be bringing it; it's the pack I'm going to use for the run.

Would it be cool if I can hitch a ride with you guys? Your evening arrival in Vegas would give me a good window to work with.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: pack on 03/04/2014 14:14:30 MST Print View

Jacob - absolute best case we get to Vegas at 6pm, so if you could land by 5pm, wait at the curb, we wouldn't even have to stop the car.
we'd have to exchange ph numbers between now and then to fine tune it as we arrive.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Flight, Gear, Trouble? on 03/11/2014 12:39:02 MDT Print View

So my flights are booked now. (woohoo!!)

I'm planning to bring all my stuff in my ZPacks pack as a carry on. I'm hearing "maybe" microspikes would be a good idea. I have them and can bring them, anyone know if I'll get static from the TSA people over bring them on board? Other things of question...

- Black Diamond Z-Poles (I might use these in the later part of the run)
- Canister stove (without fuel)
- Water bottles (empty, should be ok as far as I know)
- Anything else that I didn't think of which might not make it through the security check?

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Flight, Gear, Trouble? on 03/11/2014 13:04:12 MDT Print View

Generally, you're not going to get trekking poles on board, so be prepared with a bag you can check that will fit them.

Canister stove without a fuel canister should be no problem (I just flew with one both ways on my recent trip). Empty bottles won't be a problem.

Matches must be the strike on a flint kind, not the strike with your fingernail to light kind (does that make sense?).

Supposedly you can either take a lighter or matches, not both, but I just did take both on my recent flights. Had both of them in the bag with my small fluid vials and never got a second look.

Not sure of the microspikes. Could be an issue.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: Flight, Gear, Trouble? on 03/11/2014 13:35:08 MDT Print View

I'm sure not planning on bringing micro spikes so we better not need them.
Hear that Mike ? no ice allowed.
that would significantly toughen the route and slow it down.

high point is 7,500 ft and its mostly below 7,000 ft.
we won't hit 6,500 ft till 13 miles in so any lingering snow should not be ice.

of course this is someone from SoCal talking.

Mike, don't bring your Montana ice and snow, please ...

Edited by asandh on 03/11/2014 13:51:24 MDT.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: Re: Re: Flight, Gear, Trouble? on 03/12/2014 19:29:24 MDT Print View

Doug / Art,

Thanks for the feedback on gear/travel.

I really want to leave the microspikes at home, if possible. The poles were a last minute thought. I'm envisioning them coming in handy while crawling up the big climb in the last stretch.

Maybe I'll see if Eugene wouldn't mind me mailing him a box with these things in case needed, rather than try to check any baggage on the plane.

Everyone have their food/fuel figured out? I think I've just about got it done. ~4200 calories for 14 hours of trail time is what I'm planning for.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: Re: Re: Flight, Gear, Trouble? on 03/12/2014 19:49:32 MDT Print View

I haven't had a chance to call the NP Service to check on trail conditions- their website is useless in that regard (no detail), but it would be nice to know if the route was ice free- a little snow won't be a problem, ice along some of the rock trail would be

my fueling plan will be a couple of cliff blocks/hour (70 cals), ~ 70 cals/hour from Perpetuem (I've halved it- one scoop vs two, and it seems to be much better on my stomach), 1/2 Hammer bar/hour (110 cals)- so about 250 cals/hour. I'm going to throw a couple of P&J's in for good measure, maybe a banana or two

I'll carry enough for 14 hours w/ a few extra bars to spare just in case, maybe a few gels for just in case (I haven't had the best luck w/ gels)

water- I'm going to go w/ a 2 liter bladder and a single 20 oz handheld- I'll bring my steripen and some micropur tabs as backup

Art ...
(asandh) - F
3 weeks to go on 03/13/2014 07:54:52 MDT Print View

First, let me suggest we focus our comments in this thread for next 3 weeks. We seem to have 2 threads going right now, but the training thread, well we don't really need to discuss much training at this point.

14 hours
funny that's my estimate also. there's apparently going to be a bunch of us finishing this thing together, haha.
In actuality I'm not sure how long its going to take having not been on most of the route. 14 hours seems reasonable, but it should have been reasonable for the 47 mile Bright Angel version of the RRR and it took me and John 16 hrs +
So I'm thinking 13 hrs absolute best case with as slow as 16 hrs possible.

I'd like to try and work on a water drop (or crew volunteer) at miles 14 and 22.5. So maybe a quick drive up there on Friday. But yes, we should have water purification devices also.

Jacob and Mike you seem to have your nutrition worked out.

Ice on Trail
David is supposed to be going there this week, maybe he will give us a first hand report when he returns. I did Angels Landing in winter with intermittent ice, just had to take it slow on the ice.

Angels Landing
someone mentioned a possible Friday warm up hike to Angels Landing. I might be up for that if we took it slow. Been there before and it is great.