3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure
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Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure- Zion Traverse 4/5/14 on 09/16/2013 20:27:11 MDT Print View

where? Zion National Park

what is it? it's a traverse of Zion National Park (roughly NW->SE), ~ 47 miles (w/ an option for ~ 35 miles), ~ 10,000' of elevation gain (and loss) on single track trail (short section of paved road) that goes through a myriad of different ecosystems and geology.

when? 4/5/14 Saturday (try to plan for a few days of hanging out prior/after if you can)

why? you know why :)


few relevant links

skurka zion traverse


zion traverse fkt


joe's guide to zion traverse


zion national park


Mike

possible to probable attendees

myself
Grant (friend from Helena)
Craig
Adan
Eugene
Art
John V
Greg
David W
Jacob
Ozzy
Slaton
Jeff G
Bruce L

Edited by mtwarden on 12/05/2013 07:40:23 MST.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure on 09/16/2013 20:36:32 MDT Print View

Let's do it.

I was planning on Zion solo in October but I'm having some mild plantar fascitis issues and don't know if pushing the mileage over the next two months is smart.

I could wait and do a spring run for sure.

I already know all the logistics necessary for Zion- shuttles, campgrounds, route, etc., so it would be my vote. It would be a fun place to hang and camp with everyone as well. We got pretty close to making it happen last year....

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure on 09/16/2013 20:37:49 MDT Print View

Can I just come and camp and hang out? I could never do the run, but you could all make fun of me for being a wuss around the campfire. That would be worth something, wouldn't it?

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Zion on 09/16/2013 20:40:41 MDT Print View

Sweet! Craig do you think April is the best spring month? early, mid, late? I agree that will be a great place to hang

Doug- absolutely- the more the merrier!

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Zion on 09/16/2013 21:18:21 MDT Print View

It would be great to have you Doug.

I could pick people up in Las Vegas if anyone is flying.

April is pretty average vs. the rest of the year for rainfall and temperatures.

From the NPS site: Highs of 73/lows of 46 with extreme high of 94/low of 23

Potential snowfall drops off pretty drastically beginning in April.

First weekend of April (Saturday the 5th) would be good for me as I'm still on spring break. Last weekend of March could work well too. I'm pretty flexible though. I can be in the park in about 7-8 hours driving.

I imagine something similar to our R2R2R-
travel Thursday night/Friday
run Saturday
head home Sunday/Monday

David W.
(Davidpcvsamoa) - MLife

Locale: East Bay, CA
Re: Zion on 09/16/2013 22:35:44 MDT Print View

The company,scenery and pain made for a memorable time last year at Joshua Tree. I would love to give it another go in Zion however I am reserving the right to drink beer with Doug until I see the route.

Edited by Davidpcvsamoa on 09/16/2013 22:36:28 MDT.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Zion on 09/17/2013 07:15:22 MDT Print View

Doug- either of those dates would work for me, format of running on Saturday will work best as well

David would be great if you can make it!

if we decide to run it west to east, there is a good option for dropping at the Grotto (30-ish miles in); east to west you're fairly committed to the entire distance

Ozzy McKinney
(PorcupinePhobia) - F

Locale: PNW
dreamin on 09/18/2013 02:15:02 MDT Print View

Maybe I'm being a bit bold here, but I'm going to keep this idea on the back burner. I need something to keep me motivated through the winter, and the last one looked like fun. I've never run that distance before. Maybe I never will! (haha)

Anyone else out there rockin huaraches?

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: dreamin on 09/18/2013 07:17:34 MDT Print View

I was in the exact same boat our first run in the Grand Canyon, I had never run that distance and due to an injury, my training took a significant slide as well. I decided to still go and run a little less ambitious route (to Roaring Springs and back)- I was sure glad I went. It was one of my most memorable trips and met a great group of folks!

I've never run in sandals- doesn't seem to slow the Tarahumara down :)

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure on 09/18/2013 10:17:56 MDT Print View

First off, cheers on the Rut finish Mike! Glad to hear it went well and you're still reeling from it.

Secondly, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread because I'm still disappointed I wasn't able to connect with any of you out on the trail this past year. I've been running gobs this summer and haven't felt this healthy and fit in years. Lots of sweet long runs in the mountains the past few months in excess of 26 miles, so I'm up for most anything for the fall and spring assuming I stay healthy and avoid burnout. It's also mountain bike time in my neck of the woods with the nice fall weather around the corner.

I be running R2R2R in November and have the Mt Taylor 50K next weekend on the 28th- looking forward to both of these. No plans yet for the spring other the. The Jemez 50mer in May. Zion in April may be perfect timing.

Looking forward to seeing what transpires here.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure on 09/18/2013 10:23:46 MDT Print View

Can I join you guys for this?

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure on 09/18/2013 10:36:54 MDT Print View

Sounds like a great idea !
Zion is a beautiful place.

John V. and I would be strong maybe's, depending on the weekend.

There is also that little loop that goes by Rae Lakes (in the Sierra). Although April is not the time for that one.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure on 09/18/2013 11:41:31 MDT Print View

Mike - I have to say, you look like a modern day Wyatt Earp in your new photo :-)

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: dreamin on 09/18/2013 11:59:32 MDT Print View

"I've never run in sandals- doesn't seem to slow the Tarahumara down"

Except when they have to run over snow in California.

--B.G.--

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Zion on 09/18/2013 12:30:21 MDT Print View

Eugene-glad to hear the running is going so well! I'm sure this would be an epic trip, as were the previous ones. Hope you can make it.

Jacob- absolutely! Should be a fun run, and as you found out last year, typically even more fun hanging out :)

Art- would be great to see you and John again! Is John still racing every other weekend? :)

That's kind of what I thought w/ the pic, my wife however said Men in Black :)

Ozzy McKinney
(PorcupinePhobia) - F

Locale: PNW
Tarahumara on 09/18/2013 20:11:28 MDT Print View

They don't slow me down either. Problem is if they did I would just be crawling :-P

I'm stoked. And my wife want's to see Zion anyway.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
slow on 09/18/2013 20:20:57 MDT Print View

I'm definitely in the slow camp- no speed, but endurance is slowly building :)

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: slow on 09/18/2013 20:38:19 MDT Print View

My patented Surfing for Ultrarunning Success training strategy worked out pretty well for me in Joshua Tree (I consider being one of the only ones to be eating plates of food and drinking beer afterwords a victory), and it looks like I'm on the same track this year.

Every time I try and muster the energy for a long run it looks hot outside and I surf instead. And every time it's not too hot outside surfing just sounds more fun.

So I'm definitely all in. Death or Glory.

1

Ozzy McKinney
(PorcupinePhobia) - F

Locale: PNW
time on 09/19/2013 02:02:49 MDT Print View

as long as we are talking (lack of) speed, what type of pace does one generally aim to carry in an endevour like this? I've done some "fastpacking" but never any "ultra" running.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: time on 09/19/2013 07:17:10 MDT Print View

it really depends on the terrain - elevation/technical footing/# of breaks/etc are going to slow you down (sometimes considerably)

Zion has it's fair share of ups and downs (but not nearly as brutal as say the Grand Canyon), my wild guess is when you average the runnable sections and the walking sections- it will be in 3.5-4 mph range

for an example the FKT for this traverse is in the low 7 hours, very close to a 7 minute pace! I think I can safely double that :)

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: time on 09/19/2013 07:28:42 MDT Print View

my guess is most if not all who join this adventure will be in the 3.0 to 4.0 mph range. there is a lot of fast power walking involved that gets lumped in to the term running.
efficiency of time is as important as moving pace.
a long break can really drop the "overall" pace.
not going out too fast in the first third is critical also.

Edited by asandh on 09/20/2013 07:48:05 MDT.

Ozzy McKinney
(PorcupinePhobia) - F

Locale: PNW
3-4 on 09/19/2013 17:47:01 MDT Print View

I've heard there is quite a bit of sand on this route? I'm not sure but that sounds like something that would suck around mile 40. We just moved to a beach house so maybe I can call running on the beach my Zion Training Plan, make it sound serious ;)

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
too fast early on 09/19/2013 17:47:58 MDT Print View

I know a couple of blokes that might have done that last Spring :)

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
setting a date on 09/21/2013 12:42:10 MDT Print View

Does the first Sat in April, April 5 work for everyone? The sooner I get a date, the better it is for me.

My plan is to travel Thursday- hang Friday, run Sat, hang Sunday and travel back Monday

thanks

Mike

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: setting a date on 09/21/2013 12:59:55 MDT Print View

That date works perfectly for me Mike.
I'll likely bring my family up for this one.
We'd stay Thursday, Fri, and Sat nights, leaving Sunday.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
date on 09/21/2013 13:16:08 MDT Print View

well- let's go w/ that, I'll update the first post :)

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: setting a date on 09/22/2013 09:10:48 MDT Print View

April 5 works fine for me,
and for John V. also.
at least at this point.
never really know what I'm doing this far in advance.

Slaton Whatley
(AlpinistoOutdoors) - M

Locale: Catalinas, Saguaro, Grand Canyon
First time seeing this on 09/22/2013 11:12:53 MDT Print View

Hey everyone! I just stumbled across this thread and got really excited. I've been running again for about 8 months now and loving every second of it (after years of not running really at all). I live a few hours from Grand Canyon and plan on doing some running (if I can ever stop backpacking long enough) up there this fall/winter.

I'm far from this distance but think I could do it and would love to give it a try. Plus I'd be down to meet some fellow BPLers finally as well. What type of commitment do you need from us? Just a "I'll be there" or anything else?

For now count me in! April 5!

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: First time seeing this on 09/22/2013 11:59:28 MDT Print View

Just an I'll be there will work :) as we get closer we'll start getting more details ie campground accommodations, specific route info etc

it's nice to have this 6 months out as it will give folks ample time to condition for the run

I might have mentioned this earlier, but if decide to run east -> west, there is an option to bail at the Grotto- which makes it roughly a 30-ish mile run/walk

Slaton Whatley
(AlpinistoOutdoors) - M

Locale: Catalinas, Saguaro, Grand Canyon
Total Mileage on 09/22/2013 12:21:12 MDT Print View

What's the total mileage if run in the opposite direction where we would need to fully commit? Really excited about this!

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Total Mileage on 09/22/2013 12:47:19 MDT Print View

48 ish miles.
10,000 ft of elevation gain.
water not readily available on course, but there are a couple spots (need to research this more).

Mike - maybe add a few course specifics to your opening entry for those who may be interested.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Total Mileage on 09/22/2013 13:17:41 MDT Print View

Skurka has a pretty comprehensive post about the mileage, route, and logistics. Look at the links on this page page- the map set and data sheet about water sources/mileages are very helpful.

http://andrewskurka.com/adventures/zion-national-park-traverse/

Starting at Lee's Pass is probably smartest because you could bail at the Grotto and walk/hitch/catch a bus a few miles down the road to camp in the valley or finish the full route much closer to where we'd be camping in the park. Going the other way and finishing at Lee's Pass after dark means you have to drive the I-15 all the way back...it's a good haul for the end of a long day, especially difficult people will likley be arriving at very different times. Finishing at the East Rim trailhead is only ~30 minutes of slow driving down into the valley. Shuttle services can pick you up at Eat Rim and drop you off at Lees.

______________________________________


Surf was big this morning so I'll definitely be ready :)

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
route on 09/22/2013 13:43:54 MDT Print View

I think Craig is spot on for all the reasons he mentioned

I know last year I contacted one of the tour companies and they were willing to pick us up early at the campground and take us to Lee's Pass (for $ of course) negating the need for driving and leaving a vehicle(s) there, so that might be an option again

per Art's suggestion, added a few links to the first post- if there are others worth adding just let me know

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure on 09/22/2013 16:10:57 MDT Print View

"There is also that little loop that goes by Rae Lakes (in the Sierra). Although April is not the time for that one."

I did the loop in April '10 in heavy snow with snowshoes. Had to make it a two day event though.

Mike,
I am very interested in this trip. As always it will depend on training and injuries but there's plenty of time to get off the couch. Look forward to seeing many of the usual suspects as well as new ones. As this firms up we will have to start a training thread. I love that for the R2R2R.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure on 09/22/2013 16:44:14 MDT Print View

Greg- that sounds like a tough trip!!!! Would be great if you could make it. I agree, I really liked the training thread- great motivator and I learned a lot about training, resting, injuries, gear, etc!

Mike

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Re: Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure on 09/22/2013 17:38:05 MDT Print View

Staying motivated and on top of training through the winter months can be a challenge. I know for me, last winter was quiet and I went into the early spring with fairly inefficient aerobic endurance having cut my volume down during the weekdays due to laziness, cold mornings, and shorter daylight hours. Having a date and destination for an April BPL group run should help pass the winter months by quickly and productively this go around. With that said, count me in.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure on 09/22/2013 18:34:51 MDT Print View

I've already started my training. I'm up to 2 beers in one day now.....

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure on 09/22/2013 23:36:03 MDT Print View

@Doug.

We're going to make an ultrarunner out of you after all.

Does anyone have thoughts on doing the run on Friday, saving Saturday and Sunday for recuperating and enjoying some R&R. A solid day of beer, bantering, and brainstorming up the next adventure would be nice on Saturday. It would give other BPL peeps the opportunity to meet up for the weekend, but not necessarily commit to doing the Traverse, or perhaps tackle the traverse over a 2-day period. Just an idea, feel free to shoot it down.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
run on Friday on 09/23/2013 06:49:34 MDT Print View

I figure I can get three days off (in addition to the weekend) so I could probably travel on Wed, but I'd have to bug out very early Sunday morning to make it back for Monday (looks like roughly a 12-ish hour drive)-either way I plan on two full days of hanging out (and hopefully just one day of running :) )

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: run on Friday on 09/23/2013 07:50:48 MDT Print View

me personally, I would rather have the free days before the run than after, not sore or wasted, able to check out parts of the course if desired, get to know those we haven't met before the run, etc.
I'm pretty flexible, but John V. has this paranoia about taking too many days off.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Re: run on Friday on 09/23/2013 08:39:49 MDT Print View

Before, after, either way we will get in some downtime.

I will try to get out there on Thursday.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Thursday on 09/23/2013 17:54:18 MDT Print View

I plan on being there Thursday as well, might be a little late, but there nonetheless :) I'll have all Friday (probably most of Sunday too) to hang, Angel's Landing sounds like a must do

Ozzy McKinney
(PorcupinePhobia) - F

Locale: PNW
5th on 09/24/2013 23:00:23 MDT Print View

We will be there, not sure if we are driving or flying. That isn't the most spectacular drive from western WA.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
cheap tickets on 09/25/2013 07:12:44 MDT Print View

in my searching it sure appears there are nice cheap tickets going into Las Vegas, seems like cheaper than anywhere else regardless of how far- I'm sure in the hopes you'll leave a lot more $ behind than what you came with :)

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: cheap tickets on 09/25/2013 07:58:56 MDT Print View

not only the plane tickets, the hotels are cheap, the meals are cheap (sometimes free), a wonderful place to try your luck at life's favorite pasttimes :-)

We will be driving, its only 8-9 hours for us, but too soon to think about right now, there's training to do ...

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: cheap tickets on 09/25/2013 09:11:49 MDT Print View

I did a quick search yesterday and found airfare for about $160 one way out of ol' El Paso into Vegas. Much cheaper than me driving my big old Toyota at a measly 13mpg. Not sure if these will go up or down in price.

I'm heading up to Grants, NM on Friday for the Mt Taylor 50K. The course is awesome, with 8 miles on the CDT ad a summit up Mt Taylor (11,300') in the last few miles. I haven't raced in a while and never seem to do as well as my fitness would indicate going into races. I'm hoping everything clicks (*no debilitating cramps) and I have a good run. Abstaining from beer the past few weeks has been tough, so Ill have a few IPAs waiting at the end.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: cheap tickets on 09/25/2013 09:22:08 MDT Print View

Good luck Eugene, hope it all comes together out there.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: cheap tickets on 09/25/2013 09:40:19 MDT Print View

Eugene - just think of it as a training run for the first 20, and a sprint for the last 10. You'll do great.

Ozzy McKinney
(PorcupinePhobia) - F

Locale: PNW
Woohoo on 09/25/2013 14:23:42 MDT Print View

Sounds awesome, good luck. I have no racing experience, so I don't have any advice, other than to enjoy being in such a cool place. Looking forward to the report!

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Mt Taylor on 09/25/2013 16:59:18 MDT Print View

Eugene, may the running gods shine on you Saturday- looks like a very challenging (but beautiful) course- best of luck!

Mike

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: cheap tickets on 09/25/2013 18:03:31 MDT Print View

Mucho success on your run! Sounds like a blast. I'd join you if I could! (Ummmm, for the beer at the end, that is....)

Ozzy McKinney
(PorcupinePhobia) - F

Locale: PNW
Bedrock on 09/26/2013 23:55:22 MDT Print View

I'm a little over a week into my new Bedrock sandals, and I'm really diggin em. My main concern with huaraches was that they wouldn't stay put, but the bike tube rubber on these really works great. Just plain fun to run in :)

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Mt Taylor on 09/27/2013 09:54:21 MDT Print View

Thanks gents, loaded up and heading on the road here in a few. Supposed to be below freezing at the start tomorrow and I'm having a difficult time remembering what that feels like wearing shorts. The very little Swedish blood in me is decidedly absent when the temperature drops. The inability to grow a beard doesn't help either.

Art, I'll be taking it easy at the start this time around. I appreciate the tip and Iet you know know how things shake out.

Adan Lopez
(Lopez) - F

Locale: San Gabriel Valley
Zion run on 09/29/2013 16:20:29 MDT Print View

Hey fellas! Wyatt Earp told me the gang was getting together again! Yee-haw!

Life's been really jacking up my running lately, but hell, by April I should be able to make something happen. Especially with winter coming, it's the best time to run here in the the San Gabes. Really glad to see how well Mike and Eugene have been doing, sound like you guys are having a blast. Looking forward to an update from Eugene soon. It's looking like cramps are just going to remain part of the deal for me, as I've realized after my little Joshua Tree escapade that I've had them really all my life. However, now I know, and I've adjusted myself accordingly, so it's on like donkey kong.

Craig's bringing the family on this one so i'll be cruising the van and just sleeping in it. Knowing my wife though, she's gonna jump in last minute and drag the whole bunch of kids with her! We were out in Zion recently for the first time and they fell for the place big time. I know I say this every time, but I'm super excited about this one!! No funny business this time. Okay maybe minor cramping but none of this suffering I did the last couple times! It's on!

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Comparisons on 09/30/2013 10:59:54 MDT Print View

>"Zion has it's fair share of ups and downs (but not nearly as brutal as say the Grand Canyon), my wild guess is when you average the runnable sections and the walking sections- it will be in 3.5-4 mph range"

Mike/Wyatt/Agent K: I only did 28 miles of the R2R2R (I should have HYOH'ed and not run any of it), but have done a lot of hiking in GCNP. By the numbers, a Zion traverse looks to have about as much vertical (10,000 gain, 10,000 loss) as a R2R2R (11,000 gain, 11,000 loss) spread over a slightly longer distance (48 miles OW versus 42 miles RT). So what do you mean by "not nearly as brutal"? It looks like more varied slopes, but almost as much vertical and 14% more horizontal than R2R2R.

I have a theory that Half Dome is consistently easier than South Rim-River-South Rim despite HD being longer horizontal and at a higher elevation because HD is more varied. I find GCNP harder on my legs because I'm taking the same damn step up the same damn slope the whole way up (and down). I feel less sore after hiking a variety of terrain. Your thoughts?

Anyway, it would be great to see you guys again, have a training goal through the long, Alaskan winter, and see some pretty country in April. I'd do it hiking-only which means starting 4 hours earlier or ending 4 hours later, which is fine with me. My only hesitation is a planned family trip to Italy the second half of March, so it's a tougher sales job to propose, "And 4 days after we get back, and you're getting slammed at the office, I'll pop off to Zion." I'll be looking for the right time to ask.

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com) - M

Locale: no. california
Re: Comparisons on 09/30/2013 16:28:26 MDT Print View

" I have a theory that Half Dome is consistently easier than South Rim-River-South Rim despite HD being longer horizontal and at a higher elevation because HD is more varied. "

ohh lordy, it just Has to be. i mean, some old and fat people do half dome. i am qualify most thoroughly in both ways, and even i got away with one last romp up it. (was not a big deal)

HD has that long flat spot in the middle that sort of lets you rest, and often, a nice selection of cuties to keep your mind occupied.

in my op, you get better points for r2rxxx .. whatever acrynom is used, than for half dome.
heck, i seen asian moms in low heels at the head of Nevada falls, and that's what, about 1/3 of the way up.

Ozzy McKinney
(PorcupinePhobia) - F

Locale: PNW
Hd on 09/30/2013 17:22:27 MDT Print View

"HD has that long flat spot in the middle that sort of lets you rest, and often, a nice selection of cuties to keep your mind occupied."

Haha! Skurka didn't provide any specs in that regard...

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Zion run on 09/30/2013 18:01:59 MDT Print View

Adan- I say the same thing every time as well, but heck it's true- I'm excited, glad you're in :)

David- would be great if you could make it, missed you at Joshua Tree! I say "not as brutal" as the elevation (gain/loss) doesn't come in one fell swoop (well make that two fell swoops :) )- 47 miles regardless of terrain is going to be brutal, I have no doubts about that, but brutal in a fun way!

Mike

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Re: Zion run on 09/30/2013 22:16:47 MDT Print View

I had a mediocre race but one hell of a weekend up at Mt. Taylor. The overall experience was stellar. I highly recommend all of you putting that race on your calendar next year and coming down for it. For you guys in CA, it's only a 10hr drive from LA. Why run it? 100% of the race proceeds go on to benefit the Nideiltihi Native Elite Runners and the native running community in the four corners region benefits immensely from us sharing their sacred mountain. In addition to that, 8 miles of the course is run on sweet CDT singletrack, with much of the course running through aspen groves and stretches along trails that wind up and around the wide base of Mt. Taylor. If any of you guys are interested in coming out to NM sometime, that would be a good time to meet up and race together.

The race started at 630 and we ran east to greet the sun as it crested over the distant Sandia Mtns. and mesas far to the east. It was around 24F at the race start with a stiff wind as we made our way up the first steep climb. The first half was a cruise, cold and windy, but the morning was beautiful and the scenery was blowing my mind. I felt great heading into mile 16 at the Rock Tank aid station, only 10 minutes behind my running mates Dan Carter and Clifton Trujillo, but that wouldn't last. Maybe one mile after leaving the station I started having the first bout of cramps, which eventually led to me laid out next to the trail pounding out a locked up right quad until it released. I did my best to rub them out and stretch but they would nag me the remainder of the race. My goal was to run sub 7 and ideally run around 6hrs30mins which was totally doable, but the cramps killed the second half of my run. I salvaged the run and crossed the line in 7hrs. 30mins. with a huge smile, shook some hands, exchanged some hugs, and made my way towards the keg of IPA.

I'll be back next Sept. for another run out there and I hope some of you guys might consider running it with me.

Ozzy McKinney
(PorcupinePhobia) - F

Locale: PNW
way to go on 10/01/2013 01:43:14 MDT Print View

Nice work man, sounds like a good time. 7:30 is a burly time, and 24degrees and windy is a hell of a way to start.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Mt Taylor on 10/01/2013 07:27:38 MDT Print View

Eugene- congrats, sounds like a great event. I watched a great indy movie called "Racing the Rez", they chronicled two reservation teams throughout their season, tremendous movie and very inspirational. I'll definitely consider it for next year, maybe you can come up here and catch a race (and take in some sights) :)

Mike

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Mt Taylor on 10/01/2013 08:02:04 MDT Print View

Great effort Eugene. sorry to hear about the cramps, caused by the cold ??
Sounds like a beautiful place to run.

Adan Lopez
(Lopez) - F

Locale: San Gabriel Valley
Mt Taylor on 10/03/2013 11:50:59 MDT Print View

Eugene, Taylor looks superb, sounds like you had yourself some fun out there. Maybe cramps slowed you down a bit, but it sounds like they had no effect at all on your enjoyment of it. congrats man.

If you decided to round up a crew and do that mountain on our own, I would be down for that. I've never quite gotten into the organized race idea, but I might be open to trying something like that eventually, especially for a good cause.

Mostly, thanks for the inspiration man. I get alot out of everybody's trip reports on here so lets keep em coming guys!

Jeff Gerke
(mtnrunner) - M

Locale: Utah
Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure- Zion Traverse 4/5/14 on 10/06/2013 11:30:18 MDT Print View

The first Saturday of April may work for me. I'll be watching this thread.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Blue Mtn 30k on 10/06/2013 17:15:31 MDT Print View

^ sounds good :)

I'm happy to report my first almost mid-pack race finish- Blue Mtn 30k in MIssoula- several good climbs, but nothing bordering on ridiculous, lots of runnable sections- a little technical, but it keeps you on your toes! The weather was almost perfect- race started out at 30F, finished it was low 50's- nice :)

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Blue Mtn 30k on 10/06/2013 18:16:48 MDT Print View

^ Solid Mike!

Sounds like you're making the best of the fall season right now.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Training Thread? on 10/06/2013 18:47:56 MDT Print View

Congrats to both Mike and Eugene on the recent runs.




Anyone want to start a training thread like we had for the R2R2R?
Adan is the only other person I run with down here, so bringing you guys in for support would be helpful to me. Anyone that wants to give me a verbal a$$ kicking for not getting any miles in is welcome to do so. I have a neck injury from surfing right now and will be easing up for a few weeks...a good time to get a running habit started again.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: Training Thread? on 10/13/2013 11:33:34 MDT Print View

Does BPL no longer let us "F" (for FUN) members receive thread updates? I haven't gotten a single one, and have been missing out on all the discussion. Anywhoo... I'll manually follow along.

Re: the proposed date in April - sounds good to me.

Re: the direction - East to West gets the big climb out of the way early, correct? If so, and if that provides a bailout at ~30 miles in, it seems to make a lot of sense. I'd much rather face that big climb at the start than at the end.

Re: the pace - I plan on being at the back whatever that means. Not sure how I'll fare on this one, but my personal goal would be finishing in under 13 hours.

Re: Eugene and Mike's races - Congrats guys. I need to get running asap, will start tomorrow! Been a looong summer of relative lethargy.

Re: Craig's photo of Kikuchiyo - Good stuff, that used to be my avatar :)

Re: training thread - I'm in! Just don't laugh at my starting mileages, like I said, I haven't been running... my activities this summer closely resemble Doug's training program.



Questions on my brain...
- From what I've read I don't assume water will be an issue, just a matter of carrying enough between sources. I've read a little about the various spots to camel up, have any of you checked this out, and if so what's your plan?

- Are we carrying all of our calories this time, or will it be possible to do a single re-supply at some point? My impression was, the former.

- I have a runner friend who is interested in joining if everyone is ok with it. He's in good shape and a pretty chilled out guy. Anyone object to a non-BPL'er joining us?


Other...
- Sandra D will be along for support once again.

- It's possible that I'm about to take a dirt nap and none of the above will be pertinent. I have to meet up with a cardiologist soon. My heart was doing some strange stuff about a month ago. Got checked out by the doc, hooked up to robots and stuff... everything looked fine, so I'm not sure what's up. I'll keep you posted or, if I just die, then remember my mantra: A.B.B ...always be berserking!

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Zion on 10/13/2013 12:14:56 MDT Print View

west to east does provide a drop out option @ ~ 34 miles, however the steepest climb comes shortly after that point

there should be decent water at that time of the year, I'm going to bring my steripen for fill ups

there really is only one decent resupply point and that's at the 34 mile point, so even w/ a re-supply you'll have to carry sufficient calories for at least that long

I sure don't see any problem w/ a non-bpler joining in the fun

hope you get a clean bill of health and can join us!

Bruce LaBelle
(blabelle) - F - MLife

Locale: Davis, CA or on an adventure
Zion Traverse on 10/17/2013 23:51:34 MDT Print View

I might be interested in joining you for the Zion traverse if that would be OK. It would be a nice change for me to have a spring adventure run to focus on. I've been mostly a lurker on BPL, but have been doing UL backpacking and trail running for a long time. Let me know if you want more info about me.

Bruce

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Zion on 10/18/2013 06:46:37 MDT Print View

Bruce- would be great if you can make it :) Craig and Adan build a large fire!

Mike

Cory McArtor
(like2bsailing) - F
I'm in! on 11/27/2013 16:23:40 MST Print View

If you all are up for another lurker I'd love to come. I just ran my first race after a 2 year break from organized runs and have a 50k in December. I need to work on endurance, but I should be the there by April.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: I'm in! on 11/27/2013 19:19:51 MST Print View

Cory- not a problem at all, looking forward to seeing old friends and new! This has the makings for another great run and get together

Mike

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Welcome on 11/27/2013 19:38:30 MST Print View

Cory, my only caution is the reputation you'll get from hanging out with us.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: I'm in! on 11/27/2013 22:39:50 MST Print View

Cory, looking forward to meeting you in April.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure- Zion Traverse 4/5/14 on 11/29/2013 21:17:11 MST Print View

*wrong thread.

Edited by Eugeneius on 11/29/2013 21:22:06 MST.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure- Zion Traverse 4/5/14 on 12/01/2013 11:14:20 MST Print View

Took a few lazy minutes to skim over the heap of Zion Traverse writeups on the web. I think running E to W and getting the biggest climb out of the way early is the way to go, judging from the reports of other runners. With the exception of finishing out some of the final miles through the Hop Valley in life sucking sand on sacked legs, the biggest plus to running E>W is avoiding that large climb out of the Grotto/E. Rim late in the day. I would also love to begin the descent below the Rim just as the sun is rising. That could really make a difference in lifting the spirits and setting the tone for a long day of running Zion.

What are your thoughts?

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure- Zion Traverse 4/5/14 on 12/01/2013 13:06:25 MST Print View

The only problem I can see with running E -> W is people finishing at Lee's Pass very late. Presuming we camp in the valley, it's easily a 1.5 hour drive away. It would take a lot of work to get enough cars out there there the day before and then somehow get back to start at the East Rim. Doing it in the morning is out- it would be nearly three hours of driving round trip. Given people will be trickling in at very different times, I don't know how we'd get everyone back; we couldn't have a paid shuttle waiting for us for hours and hours...If we run W-> E we can get a shuttle to drop everyone off at Lee's Pass early and essentially run home.

Another option is staying at the private campground at the East Rim. It's exactly one mile of road from the East Rim trailhead. People could trickle back in to camp whenever they wanted to without having to coordinate any rides.

If anyone knows how to do a shuttle going from E -> W, I'm all ears. As for running, I have absolutely no preferences, it's just a matter of shuttle logistics.

I guess we could have a shuttle meet us at Lee's Pass the day before, leave some cars there, and have it take us back to camp?

Edited by xnomanx on 12/01/2013 13:12:37 MST.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure- Zion Traverse 4/5/14 on 12/01/2013 19:45:46 MST Print View

I was thinking about this some more tonight….

Why not have two separate groups run in two separate directions?

Some people were concerned about having the Grotto as a bailout point…which only works if running W->E. If others are looking for a faster time, they can run E->W for the reasons Eugene mentions.

Drivers bring spare keys to give to opposite direction runners and we can drive each other's cars home with no shuttles needed. Two cars at either end would probably have us covered.

I'm not worried about splitting into two different direction groups; half of us won't see each other once the event starts anyway. Running in two groups would ensure everyone bumps into each other somewhere….

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure- Zion Traverse 4/5/14 on 12/01/2013 20:17:07 MST Print View

I have not yet studied the course or the camping possibilities, but my first reaction is to think that two groups in opposite directions could potentially create more problems than it solves. it also makes camping all together a bit more problematic RE. the early start. this would not be my first choice of plans.

it seems there will be some coming who will not be doing the run. and there are/is one or more spots to check on people. I think this is just more easily accomplished by volunteers who are not running if everyone is going in one direction.
as to east-west or west east, again I need to study the course to comment.

but if there is a bail out spot at mile 35 or so ... no one who can not do at least 35 miles should even be attempting this. I realize we want to encourage any and all to challenge themselves, but then the responsibility is for each to be prepared and know his/her limits.

I'll take a closer look at the route and comment more.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure- Zion Traverse 4/5/14 on 12/01/2013 21:00:28 MST Print View

I'm not entirely convinced the E->W traverse is necessarily a "faster" route than the opposite direction, but climbing up the E. Rim late in the day sounds rough. A full day of running and hiking through the canyons will be taxing either we shake it, so whatever direction provides the easiest shuttling logistics for the group at large, I'm all game for.

Zion Adventures offers shuttle services for groups that seem reasonable if we wanted to simplify things a bit. Prices range from $20-30 a head. I'm totally open to key swapping at some point along the route, but we won't really be able to firm up those details until we have a final count of runners and vehicles.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure- Zion Traverse 4/5/14 on 12/01/2013 21:12:38 MST Print View

You bring up some good points Art.

Consider some "worst case" scenarios with a key swap, if a runner/keyholder bails out along the route.

I'm leaning towards a paid shuttle service, or securing ourself a dedicated shuttle driver, someone who would be generous enough to hang out and camp for the weekend, but not run the ZT.


I'll do a little more homework this week as well.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
East bound - West bound ... and other logistics on 12/02/2013 08:47:11 MST Print View

before we start discussing the logistics of getting to/from the start/finish, and camping,
I think we should first nail down whether we want to go East bound or West bound as this decision impacts a lot of things.

based on a quick study of Skurka's mapset (emphasize quick) here are a few factors :

East bound (start Lee Pass)

1. first 10 miles, pass thru contaminated water sources when we least need water and can skip them
2. miles 12-18, pass thru sketchy navigation zone when we are fresh and it is daylight
3. mile 36, very easy drop out point for anyone who needs it (the daunting climb may increase the drop out rate here though)
4. yes a very difficult climb late in the day when we are most tired
5. potentially miss some of the most scenic country late in the day when we are tired and it may be dark.

West bound

1. get the big bad climb over early
2. enjoy the best scenery before we get tired
3. travel thru the sketchy navigation zone late in the route when we are tired and it could be dark
4. bailing out becomes more problematic, though not impossible

the sketchy navigation zone concerns me somewhat for those who are not great at backcountry travel, and for those who may be going too fast to pay close attention.
not sure what Skurka means here, i.e. how sketchy.

Edited by asandh on 12/02/2013 09:21:26 MST.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: East bound - West bound ... and other logistics on 12/02/2013 09:23:12 MST Print View

In my opinion the biggest issue to consider is finishing time disparities amongst everyone out there and how this factors into shuttles.

Some stuff to think about….

At the R2R2R and Joshua Tree we had the luxury of finishing where we started or where we were camped. Not so in Zion. If camped in the main park and finishing at the East Rim, it's still many, many miles back down the hill by road, through the tunnel, etc. to get back to camp. If finishing at Lee's Pass, it's about an hour drive back to the valley. Cars would have to be waiting at either end.

So my concern is how to deal with runners finishing in, say, 8 or 9 hours vs. the possibility of others finishing in as much as 15.

I'm not going to overestimate my abilities or what I can accomplish training between now and then. For safety's sake, I always estimate my finish time based on what it would take to hike the course. In this case, that would be in the ballpark of 15 hours for me.

It puts drivers and shuttles in a weird position to have to be essentially waiting indefinitely for the last runners to come in with no idea how they're doing out there, if they bailed, or if their making progress.

I suppose one option to deal with this is to have a dedicated sweeper, someone with cars keys that is willing to make sure nobody gets behind them. I'd be OK with this as I have no concern whatsoever about fast times or PRs. i just want to have a fun, long day.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: East bound - West bound ... and other logistics on 12/02/2013 09:40:43 MST Print View

based on Skurka's assessment, no one who has expressed an interest so far will be finishing under 11 hours. the most likely disparity window for our group is 13-17 hours.

an east bound direction allows an easy access checkpoint at mile 36, with an encouragement to drop for anyone who is dramatically slow.


it seems people are planning to come with family and friends, I can even invite my wife if dedicated volunteers are needed to monitor progress.

we could also impose a condition that no one do this traverse alone, thus reducing the logistic issue a bit. its not a race after all. its a fun adventure.

Edited by asandh on 12/02/2013 10:05:10 MST.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Who's Coming on 12/02/2013 10:46:56 MST Print View

Mike -
could you maybe start a list of who's coming and the likelihood of their actually coming, on your first entry like at RRR.

knowing how many and who will help in the logistic discussion which has begun.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: East bound - West bound ... and other logistics on 12/02/2013 22:56:59 MST Print View

Initially West bound was my preference mainly for the reason of doing the big climb early on. In light of some of the points raised by Craig and Art, I think Eastbound may be the best bet.

Having good water when needed and a bailout point at a respectable 36 miles could both be key factors. Shuttling seems easier this way too but there is still a question of logistics for a bailout shuttle(s) with regard to finishing times. I'm not sure how practical the bailout idea is unless I'm missing something it would leave the driver waiting indefinetly for runners who may still elect to keep running thru to the finish.

As for me I've been caught up with some things and have been running less than I had hoped. I'm trying to rectify that and I'd say I'm a strong 'likely' but Sandra D will not be there unless the date happens to get pushed out. I will have to talk with my friend Scott to see how likely he is.

Im a little curious what you guys are thinking about *carrying* in terms of clothing to deal with the varying conditions throughout the day (and/or emergency bivy?... yikes!)

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
route on 12/05/2013 07:20:55 MST Print View

I still think that having a dropout option at ~ 35 miles trumps everything else; that's a distance I think most of are comfortable in completing. Going west bound you are totally committed for the entire route- I like the option of pulling the pin if need be.

Logistics- I'm pretty sure we can get dropped off at our starting point (Lee's Pass)- I checked into it last year and one of the shuttle outfits were willing to do it- even leaving earlier than they normally would. The cost was pretty minimal when spread out over several participants. If we can leave a couple of vehicles at our ending point, maybe one for the faster runners, one for the slower- maybe even three vehicles????

If one bails at the 35 mile there is a park shuttle service to get back to camp.

My gear will be similar to the R2R2R, but probably a little more robust as it's more remote- weather will dictate some items as well.

Art- I'll start a tentative list in my first post.

btw a balmy -13 this morning, forecast high of 2- have been hitting the treadmill this week-sadly :(

MIke

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: route on 12/05/2013 09:39:31 MST Print View

If we camp in the South Campground (main park), the Grotto is roughly 4 miles away by slightly downhill paved road. You could walk back to camp, possibly catch a park shuttle, or hitch a ride.

The finish at the East Rim is a decent place to leave cars. There's a picnic table and space to hang out for people waiting around. You could leave coolers, spare clothes and chairs in the cars and even set up a makeshift little camp there.

I have three different shuttle companies lined up, I can call and get details whenever if we need them.


I'm having deja vu writing this….We've already been through it last fall in that other thread… :)

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: route on 12/05/2013 09:58:58 MST Print View

I am equally OK with either direction (East-West or West-East) as long as all of us at the starting line fully understand what the day could bring. The fast guys seem to go in both directions, with a slight preference for East-West, so I don't think either direction is much faster. A main concern for me is Skurka's description of route finding issues on that 5 mile section near the West end, but in reading trip reports no one else seems to mention it.
So Logistics and Shuttles should probably dictate direction.

For those not certain of their ability to run the whole course, a West to East run probably makes more sense.

on a side note : Eugene
your signing up for that Black Canyon 100K sparked my interest and I looked it up.
seems like a nice course. talked with John V. there is a chance John and I may enter and run, its a 6 hour drive for us. Odds are greater than zero but less than 50-50 at this point. I am typically still out of shape in February, John will race any time and he has that weekend free. He also knows the Coury brothers (Jamil and Nick) both are hard core ultra guys, and has run several of their races. One of our issues with the race is its a point to point and there is no transportation back to the start.
so anyway ... maybe.

Edited by asandh on 12/05/2013 11:26:24 MST.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Getting there... on 12/05/2013 14:50:30 MST Print View

So my friend Scott is out, and Sandra D is out.

Looks like I'll be making my way out there solo. Is it too early (or too late??) to try and catch a ride with any of you guys from somewhere around Vegas? I'll likely fly into the Vegas airport. I'm happy to share travel expenses from there.

Adan Lopez
(Lopez) - F

Locale: San Gabriel Valley
Vegas on 12/05/2013 15:54:28 MST Print View

Jacob, its way too early for me to say what my situation will be, but if I do end up driving my own vehicle out there, I'll be glad to scoop you up! My only caveat would be that I will be trying to be there an extra day when everybody is there. I cant wait!

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Vegas on 12/05/2013 19:31:20 MST Print View

Jacob, its a little too early for me to tell as well.
My family was originally going to come with me but it turns out my kids have spring break two weeks before I do. We might pull them out of school and come as a family anyway.
If not, I assume I'd drive up with Adan, providing he's not taking family. I'm certainly willing to pick you up in Vegas if I can. We'll try and firm it up in plenty of time for you to make flight arrangements...

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Agree on 12/05/2013 20:12:15 MST Print View

On too early. I will likely fly into Vegas. For the R2R2R my wife also came along. Once we are a little closer and no injuries pop up then we can lock in arrangements. Why does my knee hurt?

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Re: Re: route on 12/05/2013 20:30:26 MST Print View

Reading through everyone's posts, going West -> East sounds like the best decision for all involved, whether that be runner, potential crew or support member of some kind (ie. family or friend), shuttle service, etc. It just makes sense. I haven't seen a speck of Zion, so the entire experience will be eye opening no matter which direction we decide to go.

Having the "bailout" option at mile ~35 if anyone of us can't safely make the full traverse is a nice Plan B and adds an additional safety net in the event the day turns for the worse. That said, running/hiking 47 miles is supposed to hurt and stretch us thin, so I'm really hoping I'll have the mental resolve to abstain from prematurely cutting the run short for the tempting warmth and comfort of a convenient shuttle up to camp!

@Art,

Sweet! I would love to see both of you guys out there. My friend Dan Carter, you may remember him from the R2R2R, is planning on either running the race if he's healthy by then or being out there to hang out and possibly crew if needed. Another friend of mine from ABQ is also planning to run the race. The timing of the Black Canyon 100K is ideally situated for our run at Zion in April. If all goes well (*ahem....knock knock), I plan to recover for a solid two weeks after the 100K, then slowly resume maintaing base fitness through all of March for Zion. BIG assumptions on my part, come April I may be eating crow, but that's the extent of my training plan at this point.

David W.
(Davidpcvsamoa) - MLife

Locale: East Bay, CA
Re: route on 12/05/2013 21:28:28 MST Print View

I am keeping a close eye on this trip. A lot is up in the air for me right now but I hope to be more settled come spring. I would also be flying into Vegas and hoping to hitch a ride with someone passing through. I am happy to throw in for travel costs.

This past weekend I went on my second run since the last Joshua Tree outing. I ran interval sprints at the track one day and 5 miles cross-country the next and felt great. Most of my training has been in the weight room and on the trail but I plan to maintain the lifting and do some backcountry skiing, snowshoeing and running to improve my fitness.

I have only seen Zion from the car on a family road trip. This should be vastly superior way to see the park. You guys continue to inspire me to improve with your training and races.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: Re: Vegas on 12/09/2013 09:18:28 MST Print View

Adan/Craig,
Thanks guys, sounds like we should be able to work something out as the date gets closer.


David,
I forgot that you were thinking about doing this... that would be cool. You're fairly burly... you can probably hike it faster than I can run it :)



Training on flat ground doesn't leave me very inspired. I have some great hills right across the street from my new place; a perfect training grounds. Now if only I can get my butt moved in over there...

David Chenault
(DaveC) - BPL Staff - F

Locale: Crown of the Continent
Zion logistics on 12/13/2013 14:07:17 MST Print View

My unsolicited opinion:

Go W to E. Get the less interesting stuff out of the way first. Hire a shuttle (I've used ZAC in the past with fine results). Camp at that private CG just outside the East Entrance so folks can walk it in. I'm pretty sure you get cell service there, so anyone who bails to Springdale can get rescued. You want to make bailing possible, but crappy. If you're camped by headquarters the attrition rate will be high.

The worst part by far will be the descent into the main canyon. Think of running down the South Kaibab trail if it were paved. Ouch. Hint, the steepest part of the climb up to the east rim is at the very end.

This is tempting. Would be nice to meet you all.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Zion logistics on 12/13/2013 17:39:28 MST Print View

Dave- thanks, didn't even know there was a campground outside the East entrance- must be this one:

http://www.zionponderosa.com/camping.htm

that definitely is an option to consider, it was definitely nice making it back to camp on foot power at Joshua Tree

I'm more than likely driving from Helena and should have room if you get the urge :)

Mike

David Chenault
(DaveC) - BPL Staff - F

Locale: Crown of the Continent
Zion camping on 12/13/2013 18:05:45 MST Print View

The Ponderosa is a good 30 minutes (driving) from the east entrance. You want this: http://zionrv.com/

Will keep that in mind Mike, a very generous offer.

Brian blair
(brianblair) - F
Oh....hey.... on 01/09/2014 12:22:40 MST Print View

...just noticed this thread. I'm hopeful I can join y'all but won't know for sure for a few weeks. It would be great to run with all of you again.

BB

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Oh....hey.... on 01/09/2014 16:49:43 MST Print View

sounds good :)

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
spring run. on 01/28/2014 00:18:33 MST Print View

I'd like to go just to hike and make sure the beer is cold in the coolers. Haven't been to Zion since I was a kid. Dave W. are you driving or flying?!

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Logistics Discussion Moved from Training Thread to Here on 01/29/2014 12:05:23 MST Print View

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Logistics discussion moved from Zion Training thread.

Continue Logistics discussion here.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Edited by asandh on 01/29/2014 12:19:47 MST.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: spring run. on 01/29/2014 12:18:20 MST Print View

Dave T. - keeping beer cold is an important job.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
camping site on 01/29/2014 16:39:59 MST Print View

from what Mike S said in the other thread, it definitely sounds worth investigating the east entrance site

we may have enough non-running folk (my buddies wife will be one for sure) that we may be able to forego a paid shuttle to the start (ala Joshua Tree)

we should also be able to leave a vehicle (or two) at/near the Grotto to accommodate anyone stopping there

also I don't know if this will impact available sites, but I was told this morning that the Zion 100 is the same weekend we are looking at- I know they aren't in the park, but am assuming they'll be close????

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: camping site on 01/29/2014 17:11:08 MST Print View

"we may have enough non-running folk (my buddies wife will be one for sure) that we may be able to forego a paid shuttle to the start (ala Joshua Tree)"

If I don't slow down on the surfing and pick up on the running, I'm going to be one of them.

But tending the beer doesn't sound half bad. Can anyone recommend a hammock?

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: camping site on 01/29/2014 17:36:23 MST Print View

The Zion 100 is the same weekend but outside the park.
This race is centered in the town of Virgin which is about 10 miles west of the west park entrance and Watchman campground.
Yes runners will be staying in Springdale for the race.
Yes there may be runners camping at Watchman campground for the race.
No, none of their race course will be on any of the trails we will run on.
the races (100m, 100k, 50k) will be on Friday & Saturday (I think racing is not allowed on Sunday in Utah).

I do not think a car can be left at the Grotto because this will be bus only season on the scenic road.

I am not sure which camping option I would prefer, not enough info yet for my vote.

You do realize that camping at the east entrance effectively makes this a 49 mile run, since its apparently one mile to camping from the trailhead, and who's gonna pick up a runner just for one mile.

Craig - I'm not sure if we should kick you in the butt, or tuck you in (to your hammock).

Edited by asandh on 01/29/2014 18:07:12 MST.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Need to Make Zion Campsite Reservations on 02/14/2014 09:05:20 MST Print View

just did a quick check of Watchman camp site availability.
its filling up.

I have not checked the private campground at the finish line, but I think there are not many sites.

We should probably try and get an estimate of how many are coming,
decide which camp site we prefer,
and make a reservation soon.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Need to Make Zion Campsite Reservations on 02/14/2014 18:13:30 MST Print View

Art- I'm having no luck making contact w/ the camp at the East end- I've tried their online reservation, their toll free telephone # and just this week their email contact- all to no avail

We might be better off going w/ Watchman???????- my best guess is 15 folks tops

you may want to try http://zionrv.com/ and see if you have any better luck

Mike

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
beer. on 02/14/2014 20:25:39 MST Print View

"But tending the beer doesn't sound half bad."


Tending beer sounds fully good!

Is that beer cold enough?

Is there enough beer in the cooler?

Is the variety in the cooler adequate, or should it be adjusted?

Should I have a beer?

Etc.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: Need to Make Zion Campsite Reservations on 02/15/2014 08:11:53 MST Print View

Mike - given your issues with contacting them I'm sort of in agreement about just going with Watchman. A bit of certainty and reliability is a good thing when you're traveling many miles.
also I get the feeling that half or more will not be seeing the finish line ... either by opting for the short version or serving as beer guards.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
We're in at Watchman on 02/15/2014 08:43:25 MST Print View

Art- you're right, there were only two group sites left!

All- we're in at Watchman for Thursday 4/3 through Monday 4/7- it's group site E1- it has a minimum of 20, up to 40- a maximum of 8 vehicles (but has overflow parking nearby if we exceed that)

I reserved it for 20 folks (that's the minimum), if for some reason there is more I'm sure we can let them know; I'm pretty sure we won't be over 40

It's for tents only, don't think anyone is bringing a camper :)

Anywho it was $240 total, I figure we can square up once we all get there.


Woohoo!

Mike

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: We're in at Watchman on 02/15/2014 09:04:15 MST Print View

thanks Mike - sounds reasonable.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: We're in at Watchman on 02/15/2014 09:24:43 MST Print View

Thanks Mike. I could paypal you or mail a check over if you need it now. Otherwise we can handle it there.

I'm of the strong opinion that camping down in the valley is better. It may be more crowded, but the private campground up at the east rim is really nothing to speak of.

So now we need shuttle logistics from the east rim at the end.

There is a decent sized dirt turnout there and a picnic table. It's a fine place to wait. Leave a few cars there with chairs, coolers, changes of clothes and we should be good.

We could arrange cutoffs for different cars; i.e. one that leaves after 11 hours, one after 13, etc. so the fastest finishers aren't waiting there for the slowest all evening.

From what I remember, the shuttle can pick us up at the east rim in the morning and then drive us out to Lee's pass....or our own drivers can do it. That can be determined as we get closer and get a car count.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Zion Run Day Logistics on 02/15/2014 09:49:04 MST Print View

good ideas Craig.

on run day ... given that this is slightly more remote than GC-RRR, it would be great if we could enlist a volunteer to do one or two checkpoints along the route.

at mile 14.1 the route crosses the road, a water drop and checkpoint would be easy here.

at mile 22.5 the route comes very close to the road and Lava Point picnic area.
a second water drop and checkpoint could be made here.

at mile 36.7 each runner must make the big decision ...

these are not absolutely necessary, since there is water on route at various places, but a check in point would help gauge the who and when for the 48 mile finish, and make it easier to track down anyone who decides to go astray.

if we can't find a volunteer, I guess everyone's on their own.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Zion Run Day Logistics on 02/15/2014 10:34:06 MST Print View

I plan on sweeping the course.

Unless dropping out, as long as nobody gets lost or behind me, I can carry the keys for the final car. If anyone is ahead of me and dropping, maybe we can arrange some sort of message; a trail blaze ribbon with a note, etc.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: We're in at Watchman on 02/15/2014 13:53:13 MST Print View

agreed- good ideas

Craig do you want to contact the shuttle folks and see if they are willing to take us to Lee's Pass early? We may be able to do this w/ our non-runners which obviously would be cheaper and we can pick our exact time to leave.

Looks like sunrise for the 5th is 7:12 A, sunset 7:57 P- wouldn't hurt us to be on the trail around 6:30 (or earlier w/ headlamps)

it's roughly 45 miles from Watchman to Lee's Pass trailhead, probably an hour drive

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: Re: We're in at Watchman on 02/15/2014 17:42:58 MST Print View

yes, 6:30 or even 6:00am start.
the first few miles are the least interesting, would like as much daylight as possible for the last part.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Report from Zion on 02/19/2014 09:11:51 MST Print View

Just surprised my wife with a V-day trip to Zion (from Alaska). No ultras were run, but it was a lovely trip. The Scenic Drive was very busy and all parking areas were overflowing, but (1) it the end of the non-shuttle season as visitation ramps up, (2) it was a three-day weekend and a lot of college students were traveling as large groups, and (3) it was the no-admission-fee weekend for the NPS. it was easy to see why they require shuttle use in the Spring through Fall. Anyway, I saw a few logistical items from the training thread I could answer:

"it seems we will just miss being able to drive private vehicles to the Grotto to pick up those who may stop there (spring 2014 schedule not out yet)." -Art Jan 27. What I saw in the Spring version of their newspaper handout is March 31 is the last day for private vehicles. We stayed at the Zion Lodge and they said once shuttle-only access starts, Lodge guests are given a red pass that lets them drive up to the Lodge (one mile short of The Grotto). So if anyone were staying at The Lodge, that would almost help. But what you'd really like is a sag wagon AT The Grotto, not a mile down the road. You'd probably need a Handicap sticker to do that. Maybe a non-runner could hand at The Grotto with checklist of runners, some hot drinks and warm coats?

"does anyone know how much time it takes to drive from the East end (potential camp) to the road junction inside the park on the scenic road. time is more relevant here than miles."

We did the reverse on Saturday - The Lodge on the Scenic Drive to the Taylor creek Trailhead on Kolob Canyon Road (one mile down the road from the Lee Pass Trailhead). I didn't time it but would estimate it at 60 +/-5 minutes in light traffic. April is little more towards peak, but it wouldn't be a 3-day weekend like we had.

"it's roughly 45 miles from Watchman to Lee's Pass trailhead, probably an hour drive"

I get 41 miles, and, yeah, right about an hour in shuttle van.

"Homing pigeons?"

With AT&T as a carrier, we had no service along the Zion Canyon Scenic Drive (the road to The Grotto) but had decent reception from Angel's Landing on the rim. The Lodge had wifi but for guests only. Tough terrain for radio use.

I'll be back in Zion, certainly the Scenic Drive Portion, maybe more of the Park in mid-March. Let me know if there's any thing I can do or check for you guys. Seems too early to lay in water caches, but I'd be game to do so.

Edited to respond to: "I can carry the keys for the final car."

I'm a big fan of leaving keys on the car (if you need to use my RAV4 at an Alaskan trailhead, the keys are in at the bottom of the coil spring at the LF wheel (closest to the driver)). You can't see a key there unless you are really looking, but it is easy to pull out and even to find in the dark. Everyone has to remember to not drive away without Craig, but if he bails at the Grotto or any number of other outcomes; someone else might need to move that car. Someone might just want to get into the car to stay warm or cool or get it comfortable for Sweeper Craig's arrival. Tape a note to the steering wheel: "Sweeper's Car. Remember to bring Craig back with you."

Edited by DavidinKenai on 02/19/2014 09:22:15 MST.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Report from Zion on 02/19/2014 09:21:10 MST Print View

thanks David.

if you're going again, I'll try and think of some things you could check on.

yeah too early for water caches, maybe the day before for them.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: Re: Report from Zion on 02/19/2014 09:38:14 MST Print View

I've always had a remote chance of making it that weekend (24,000 miles so far this year is already a lot of flying and I'll be coming off a weeklong family vacation) and I'd be hiker for only 20 miles or so. But I could shuttle people around or schlep water into a cache location. I'll let you know if I can commit to that - I need to wait to see how some work scheduling shakes out.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: Re: Report from Zion on 02/19/2014 09:52:29 MST Print View

great - hope you can make it.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: Re: Re: Report from Zion on 02/19/2014 17:55:38 MST Print View

David- thanks for the recon info! Would be great to see you if you can make it

Mike

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Report from Zion on 02/24/2014 12:03:25 MST Print View

David, Thanks for doing that legwork! And thanks to everyone who has been chipping away at the logistics, as I have done nothing to contribute on that end.


If you guys will bear with me for a second, I just want to make sure I've got my head wrapped around this and that I'm current on the plan since I've been absent of the forum lately...

- Staying at Watchman Camp (Thanks Mike, let me know how to cover my part)
- Running West to East
- Start is at Lee's Pass
- Finish is at the East Entrance via East Rim Trail
- Bailout is at the Grotto

? There are a few places to drop water (& food?) listed by Art, what do they coincide with on the map?
? Beta plan is to leave vehicles at the Grotto for those who exit there?
? Beta plan is to hire shuttle to get us to the west side early in the morning?
? Alternate beta plan is to use non-running drivers for early morning transport?

David's suggestion of finding some non-running volunteers to post up at the bailout to provide aide as runners check in is a good idea. Maybe they can show up at some pre-determined time and hang until all have checked in. Would be nice to devise some simple way of keeping track of who has checked in also, just for clarity of knowing who has pressed onto the finish and who has yet to arrive at the bailout point.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Report from Zion on 02/24/2014 12:20:51 MST Print View

Watchman - yes
west to east - yes
start Lee pass - yes
finish east entrance - yes
bailout mile 36.7 Grotto - yes (cars not allowed here, shuttle bus to campsite)

potential water drops per Skurka's mapset
mile 14.1 road crossing
mile 22.5 picnic area (a short distance from trail not sure how far)
mile 36.7 water fountains
natural water sources in some places, bring a filter or other method

Grotto bailout - again no cars allowed, shuttle only

Still working on :
1. paid shuttle or BPL volunteers to get us to start
2. how many vehicles to leave at finish and how they relate to timing of finishers.

Edited by asandh on 02/24/2014 12:22:13 MST.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Report from Zion on 02/25/2014 09:42:55 MST Print View

Thanks for the clarification, Art. It's just about all congealed for me now :)

It would be nice if we have a couple of non-running folks that we can sweet talk into driving us to the start (à la our conspicious van tour to the J Tree jumping off point) that way any jackets, uneaten snacks, etc... can just go back to camp with the drivers, and other than a little gas money and beer bribery it would be relatively inexpensive.

I may bring my Dad along with me, he can probably help out with the driving. I'm not sure how many other non-runners will be there but it seems like we should be able to pull something together.

By the way, last time I talked with David Wage (we just got back from a snow trip) he mentioned that he was probably in the "unlikely" category now. I will definitely be there, barring any emergencies that keep me away.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Running Vest? on 02/25/2014 10:02:49 MST Print View

So, I'm hoping to get some perspective from you more experienced guys on what I might want to bring as far as a vest/pack goes...

Last year after J Tree I picked up an Ultimate Direction SJ vest since Mike's AK looked pretty sweet. I like the bottles up front but it didn't offer much more room than my Nathan HPL 020 with a bladder in back. Since I expect to use both bottles and the bladder at Zion I'm wondering if I might be a little tight on space for food and/or extra clothes?

I'll probably run in tights and a light tee shirt.

That would leave me carrying a pair of shorts, windshirt, and extra socks. Also a small first aid kit, headlamp, a Sony RX100 camera, compact water filter, and maybe my phone (is there cell service at the Grotto or anywhere along the road?). That leaves food & fuel.


Is there any chance we'll be able to make a food drop near the Lava Point area? If so, that could lighten the load considerably.

I'm left wondering if I should think about taking a running pack with a little more room. I could upgrade to the PB, not sure if that's overkill. Any input here is appreciated. I'm sort of dreading the weight. I can say at J Tree my Nathan was *stuffed* and that was with a food cache.

Edited by JacobD on 02/25/2014 10:04:59 MST.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Running Vest? on 02/25/2014 10:11:55 MST Print View

Jacob - the day before the run I'd like to scope out the 2 potential water drops and possibly drop some water.
but if we can get a water volunteer, that would be better as we would not have to drive back up to pick up the bottles on Sunday.
if we had a volunteer, they could hold some food for you.
I'd be nervous about a simple food drop.
however, my personal rule is to carry all food/fuel from start to finish and not rely on external support. the food is essential for me and I don't want to take a chance.
half the food is only an extra lb. at most.
I also always tend to bring a bit more clothing when going FKT style which adds another lb.

the pack John V. and I use for stuff like this is the Black Diamond Bbee. simple, light weight, big enough, rides fairly well at slow speeds.

for the Grand Canyon RRR my starting pack weight was 5.8 lb.
(not including water which was 2 hand helds)

food - 2.7
clothing - 1.85 (included full shell)
pack & misl. - 1.25

for Zion it will be similar

Edited by asandh on 02/25/2014 10:20:29 MST.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
pack on 02/26/2014 19:23:12 MST Print View

Jacob- I really my AK pack, but w/ cooler temps possible (vs Joshua Tree) I'll be carrying a larger pack and more clothing.

I'll most likely be using my MH Fluid 6 http://www.mountainhardwear.com/fluid-6-OU4516.html, nice little running pack w/ adequate room for a few insulating layers (and other bits if one had to tough a night out)

In addition I'll probably go w/ a single handheld for my Perpetuem

Mike

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: pack on 03/04/2014 10:46:30 MST Print View

Art/Mike I ended up grabbing the new PB. I think it's going to work good for me, despite being a little heavy.


Looks like I'm coming out by myself. My Dad didn't feel up to it and it sounds like David Wage is probably not going to be able to make it (although that's not 100%).

If I fly into Vegas, is it possible I can carpool with any of you? If that sounds do-able I can work my flight around either a Thursday or Friday arrival and pick one that gets me there at a decent time.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: pack on 03/04/2014 11:10:40 MST Print View

I'd like to check out the PB pack, you're bringing it ?

John V. and I are heading up for a late Thursday night arrival.
We will be driving thru Vegas.
current estimate is to pass thru Vegas around 7pm +- an hour or so.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: Re: Re: pack on 03/04/2014 14:04:07 MST Print View

Art, I will be bringing it; it's the pack I'm going to use for the run.

Would it be cool if I can hitch a ride with you guys? Your evening arrival in Vegas would give me a good window to work with.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: pack on 03/04/2014 14:14:30 MST Print View

Jacob - absolute best case we get to Vegas at 6pm, so if you could land by 5pm, wait at the curb, we wouldn't even have to stop the car.
we'd have to exchange ph numbers between now and then to fine tune it as we arrive.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Flight, Gear, Trouble? on 03/11/2014 12:39:02 MDT Print View

So my flights are booked now. (woohoo!!)

I'm planning to bring all my stuff in my ZPacks pack as a carry on. I'm hearing "maybe" microspikes would be a good idea. I have them and can bring them, anyone know if I'll get static from the TSA people over bring them on board? Other things of question...

- Black Diamond Z-Poles (I might use these in the later part of the run)
- Canister stove (without fuel)
- Water bottles (empty, should be ok as far as I know)
- Anything else that I didn't think of which might not make it through the security check?

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Flight, Gear, Trouble? on 03/11/2014 13:04:12 MDT Print View

Generally, you're not going to get trekking poles on board, so be prepared with a bag you can check that will fit them.

Canister stove without a fuel canister should be no problem (I just flew with one both ways on my recent trip). Empty bottles won't be a problem.

Matches must be the strike on a flint kind, not the strike with your fingernail to light kind (does that make sense?).

Supposedly you can either take a lighter or matches, not both, but I just did take both on my recent flights. Had both of them in the bag with my small fluid vials and never got a second look.

Not sure of the microspikes. Could be an issue.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: Flight, Gear, Trouble? on 03/11/2014 13:35:08 MDT Print View

I'm sure not planning on bringing micro spikes so we better not need them.
Hear that Mike ? no ice allowed.
that would significantly toughen the route and slow it down.

high point is 7,500 ft and its mostly below 7,000 ft.
we won't hit 6,500 ft till 13 miles in so any lingering snow should not be ice.

of course this is someone from SoCal talking.

Mike, don't bring your Montana ice and snow, please ...

Edited by asandh on 03/11/2014 13:51:24 MDT.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: Re: Re: Flight, Gear, Trouble? on 03/12/2014 19:29:24 MDT Print View

Doug / Art,

Thanks for the feedback on gear/travel.

I really want to leave the microspikes at home, if possible. The poles were a last minute thought. I'm envisioning them coming in handy while crawling up the big climb in the last stretch.

Maybe I'll see if Eugene wouldn't mind me mailing him a box with these things in case needed, rather than try to check any baggage on the plane.






Everyone have their food/fuel figured out? I think I've just about got it done. ~4200 calories for 14 hours of trail time is what I'm planning for.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: Re: Re: Flight, Gear, Trouble? on 03/12/2014 19:49:32 MDT Print View

I haven't had a chance to call the NP Service to check on trail conditions- their website is useless in that regard (no detail), but it would be nice to know if the route was ice free- a little snow won't be a problem, ice along some of the rock trail would be

my fueling plan will be a couple of cliff blocks/hour (70 cals), ~ 70 cals/hour from Perpetuem (I've halved it- one scoop vs two, and it seems to be much better on my stomach), 1/2 Hammer bar/hour (110 cals)- so about 250 cals/hour. I'm going to throw a couple of P&J's in for good measure, maybe a banana or two

I'll carry enough for 14 hours w/ a few extra bars to spare just in case, maybe a few gels for just in case (I haven't had the best luck w/ gels)

water- I'm going to go w/ a 2 liter bladder and a single 20 oz handheld- I'll bring my steripen and some micropur tabs as backup

Art ...
(asandh) - F
3 weeks to go on 03/13/2014 07:54:52 MDT Print View

First, let me suggest we focus our comments in this thread for next 3 weeks. We seem to have 2 threads going right now, but the training thread, well we don't really need to discuss much training at this point.


14 hours
funny that's my estimate also. there's apparently going to be a bunch of us finishing this thing together, haha.
In actuality I'm not sure how long its going to take having not been on most of the route. 14 hours seems reasonable, but it should have been reasonable for the 47 mile Bright Angel version of the RRR and it took me and John 16 hrs +
So I'm thinking 13 hrs absolute best case with as slow as 16 hrs possible.

Water
I'd like to try and work on a water drop (or crew volunteer) at miles 14 and 22.5. So maybe a quick drive up there on Friday. But yes, we should have water purification devices also.

Food
Jacob and Mike you seem to have your nutrition worked out.

Ice on Trail
David is supposed to be going there this week, maybe he will give us a first hand report when he returns. I did Angels Landing in winter with intermittent ice, just had to take it slow on the ice.

Angels Landing
someone mentioned a possible Friday warm up hike to Angels Landing. I might be up for that if we took it slow. Been there before and it is great.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: 3 weeks to go on 03/14/2014 00:42:49 MDT Print View

Do we know how we're getting to the start in the morning? Non-running driver volunteer/Drunken Hairy Cheerleader... I'm guessing?

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: 3 weeks to go on 03/14/2014 19:41:28 MDT Print View

^ that would be my best guess- worse case we can drive a vehicle (or two if needed) and pick them up later

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Trail report on 03/14/2014 22:32:31 MDT Print View

As of yesterday, when my 9-year-old and I were hiking in Zion up to Angel's Landing (5,790 feet above sea level), there was no snow, no ice, and no trace of snow or ice anywhere we hiked nor any of the backcountry visible from on top. It was usually 35F lows and 70F high until some clouds came in keeping the night warmer (46F) and the day cooler (64F). 48F and blowing 20 mph, gusting to 30 mph was brisk in t-shirt and shorts even with the workout of climbing up the chained portion, but we weren't up there very long. For any long run in the more wind-exposed stretches, one would want at least wind pants and a puffy or fleece torso layer. Most people had twice that much on.

The Virgin River flow through the Zion Narrows was pretty low - about 55-60 cfs - but cold, maybe 42F. I did okay in fleece socks in trail shoes, but neoprene booties would have been nicer.

Happy Trails, guys!

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Trail report on 03/16/2014 08:10:21 MDT Print View

Thanks David,

very helpful.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: Logistics - Getting close now... on 03/24/2014 12:07:10 MDT Print View

David, thanks much for the report on trail conditions. I thought I replied here a week ago, but maybe I was daydreaming. I picked up a light down vest based on your recommendation... a piece of gear I've actually never owned.


So we're getting pretty close now. Sounds like the running pack is dwindling in number. On one hand, that mainly sux :( but on the other the company will be appreciated in camp before and after the run. Hoping this means we'll have our morning "shuttle" covered.


I read there's a general store near Watchman. Anyone know if it should be open and has a little bit of food? I'm not really sure what I'm doing for lunch and dinner prior to the run and might lean on the store a little if it's legit... 'specially for beerz. Who's bringing an icechest?!? << most important logistical detail of the trip.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Re: Logistics - Getting close now... on 03/25/2014 07:29:11 MDT Print View

Jacob- the campground is very close to the small town of Springdale, there must be a store there some place.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure - A Good Time on 04/14/2014 10:26:46 MDT Print View

Thanks to all of you who helped make this happen; I had a great time and the only thing I would have changed is somehow re-aligning the planets so everyone who originally wanted to attend could have made it.

It was good seeing most of the Spring Run crew from last year and hanging out with you guys again. We really should get together more often, esp those of us here in California. If nothing else it's an excuse to go south or north for the occasional trip.

Mike, thanks for spearheading this and getting things moving. I hope that heel mends quickly for you so you can get back on the trail this Spring.

John and Art, even though I'm pretty sure we cheated death a few times in the Yaris, many thanks for the transport to and from the airport and helping with my other logistics.

I still need to catch up with Adan and Craig, but I'm betting those two had a crazy fun time down in the cayons.


Zion was so inspiring. I may go back this fall or late summer with my family. In fact I may run it again while I'm there! Now that I've established my PFKT I'd like to see how much I can smash it by, really though I don't need much of an excuse to redo that scenery!

Here's my trip report and photos...

http://hikeitlikeit.com/2014/traversing-zion/


PEACE OUT!

Edited by JacobD on 04/14/2014 10:27:27 MDT.

Adan Lopez
(Lopez) - F

Locale: San Gabriel Valley
Zion on 04/14/2014 15:52:41 MDT Print View

Dude your images are so good. I will try and gather up a few of mine very soon and post them up, but they wont compare to yours. Youre making me want to toss my phone and buy an actual fotography machine.

I had such a good time on this trip. Zion is one of the most strikingly beautiful landscapes I've ever seen. And all these guys are alot of fun to chill with. I wish my fitness could have been there to do a big run with you guys, but I also feel very lucky to see those canyons the way I did.

Sorry we missed Mike and Eugene and others. These events will always be sketchy commitments, with travel, cost, family and all the other things. As you know, I almost didnt make it myself, but I'm very glad I did.

I hope we meet on the trail again soon buddy.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure - A Good Time on 04/15/2014 09:02:46 MDT Print View

Great trip report and photos Jacob.

Maybe add this report to the Trip Reports forum also, so those researching the run can more easily find your report.

hmmm ... what should we do next ?

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure - A Good Time on 04/15/2014 09:54:46 MDT Print View

It was a fun weekend guys, though we had entirely different adventures.

What's next?
Personally, I don't see much trail-based ultra stuff in my near future.

But I'm already hatching ideas to return to Utah for a multiday backpacking/canyoneering trip late spring/early summer.

Rappels, swims, chimneys, climbs, throwing packs across pools and down slots...it all tickled my fancy pretty good. A new canyon rope is in the mail....

I'll post a few canyon pics on this thread later.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure - A Good Time on 04/15/2014 10:22:06 MDT Print View

Adan, Thanks man. I was pretty happy with how the photos turned out; that tends to happen when the place and people are inspiring. The camera was a Sony RX100. I just finished a write up about it and will be posting to the blog soon for those curious. From what I've seen of your cell photos and Craig's GoPro stills... you guys both have a good eye, a little more tech in the camera department would probably go a long way.


Art, Thanks, glad you enjoyed the report. I'm probably not going to post anything in the TR forum; I'm self conscious about too much blog spamming. As far as what to do next, well not sure about *next*, but for the next run, something not quite as tough probably :) I'm curious what we might find up around Durango Co. that would fit the bill. When I have some time, I'll start poking around.


Craig, I'd love to go back to Zion. I think the next trip I need to take my family with me. That doesn't necessarily mean that I'll be tied up with family fun the whole time and might be able to get out for something like a canyon or even short backpack trip. If you think your timing could be mid June (our summer break up here) please give me a shout!


I'm thinking about *maybe* going back in late summer / early fall to repeat the run also...

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure - A Good Time on 04/15/2014 10:36:40 MDT Print View

Yeah, those were some amazing pics you took Jacob.

I'll be in Utah for the entire month of July camping with my family. Will deifinitely be doing Keyhole and some of the easier canyons with my kids when I'm there.

If I'm back for a canyoneering trip, it'll be during the second to last week of June. Adan and are are figuring out details right now. Not sure if it'll happen just yet or not.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: Re: Re: 3rd annual BPL Spring Run Adventure - A Good Time on 04/15/2014 11:11:00 MDT Print View

Thanks Craig, yours too from the canyons. Looking forward to seeing the rest of what you guys did.


I've done some canyoneering before but I'd need quick a refresher. I don't own any gear but can get a harness and helmet easily enough. I'm not sure on our timing either but it's possible I could get away around the end of June if you guys will put up with me.

Who knows, we may see you around the campground this summer. We need to figure out what to do with our kids too; we were just talking about it last night and don't have any plans yet. I'm sure they'd have fun exploring by the river, doing some short hikes, and taking in the scenery. No canyons for them just yet though :)

Adan Lopez
(Lopez) - F

Locale: San Gabriel Valley
Zion Canyoneering on 04/15/2014 22:54:31 MDT Print View

posted in trip reports...

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=90089&skip_to_post=767193#767193

Edited by Lopez on 04/17/2014 11:32:54 MDT.