Fresh Air with Terry Gross
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just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Lost conversation on 09/18/2013 09:20:58 MDT Print View

"It seems like if someone posts something about barricading yourself with guns to protect yourself from the government, someone else might take it to heart."


For the record Jerry, let it be known that i didn't once say anything like this whatsoever.

If stuff does happen to get critical here, and martial law, outright agression, or the like is instituted, well my plan is just to have an extended hike in the woods. I'm not stockpiling weapons, or barricading myself in my house, blah blah blah.

I'm a person of peace, but if it comes down to it, to help others i would fight back, just not for myself alone as i have no fear of death or imprisonment.

If people understood the degree and depth of how corrupt and difficult things have become here, they would be as concerned as i am about the way things are going. When people like me speak up and do so frankly and without social fear, others try to silence these people with various negative labels of extremist and the like.

Or, they make fun of them in an indirect way. Either way, they are not comfortable with the truths that they can't accept.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Extremes on 09/18/2013 09:35:06 MDT Print View

Justin,
With my original post I hoped for more people to seriously look into the Snowden leaks and the over reaching of the NSA.
It did not take long for posters to not even reply to this at all, and rather just reply to conspiracy theories and fear of government, and the corporations etc.
I wanted to keep the facts separate from what we do not know to be facts yet.
I am not putting down your thoughts nor do I think or ought not post them. I am separating them from the intent of my original post.
You are doing your part in what you think people should wake up to.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Extremes on 09/18/2013 11:16:55 MDT Print View

The biggest problem with spying, is when they use it to supress ploitical speech - like Occupy, Tea Party, Libertarian, and even Oath Keepers.

Just reading your Oath Keepers list, it seems like the solution offered is for everyone to get guns to protect themselves. And other people reading it will have that reaction.

The weapon we have is to speak up, call your congressmen, show up at demonstrations, etc.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
OP on 09/18/2013 11:29:57 MDT Print View

"I wanted to keep the facts separate from what we do not know to be facts yet."

I'm not the first to remark on this but the Snowden case revealed that the U.S. government is doing what many of us already suspected they've been doing all along. I'm not saying I approve, just that I'm not surprised.

When I'm on BPL, Facebook, or whatever, I realize that I'm leaving an internet breadcrumb trail for not only the government but future employers. I am at peace with the fact that the recent chafing thread has made me permanently ineligible to run for congress.

I do object to the government reaching into our email inboxes for information absent a warrant. I am of the opinion that email should be treated the same as regular mail and that there should be some reasonable expectation of privacy. I don't think that anyone, including Google, should be able to scan emails (for criminal or targeting advertising) absent a warrant.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Re: Extremes on 09/18/2013 12:02:31 MDT Print View

"Just reading your Oath Keepers list, it seems like the solution offered is for everyone to get guns to protect themselves. And other people reading it will have that reaction."

Jerry I didn't share that oath keepers list, Matthew Perry did. I'm not part of any group or organization, nor do I label myself this or that politically.

just Justin Whitson
(ArcturusBear)
Re: Extremes on 09/18/2013 12:39:45 MDT Print View

I understand Kat and I apologize for the thread drift from the original topic. I also understand the intent to keep it grounded and purely factual. I was speaking theoretically some, but I also mentioned plenty of facts and experiences which are not "conspiracy theory". If we don't dig deeper into the core issues, like the power and untouchable nature of institutions like the Federal Reserve which is a fact that its not "federal" but private banking related, then how will we ever truly change things? Talking about Snowden and the NSA is good to do however these are just smaller symptoms of a much larger big picture issue that needs to be more addressed than the smaller symptoms. Having a very broad mind that is good at both big picture stuff and detail I have a hard time sticking to just one narrower subject and not connecting the dots to the bigger picture. I will try to keep it more specialized and smaller picture.

Edited by ArcturusBear on 09/18/2013 12:47:06 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Extremes on 09/18/2013 13:14:31 MDT Print View

Federal Reserve makes cheap loans to big banks and other ways for them to make big money. That's not fair.

On the other hand, they manipulate interest rates to stimulate the economy to lessen recessions. Like this recent recession could have been another great depression without the fed.

They should just evolve the fed so they don't give big banks such a good deal.

I think NSA/Snowden/privacy and Federal Reserve are smaller problems.

The big problem is our "best government money can buy"

ooops - thread drift - rehashing ths same subject - sorry Katrina : )

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
@Jerry...not a hurricane on 09/18/2013 17:31:45 MDT Print View

I can be a bit much....but don't call me a hurricane!

Katharina, not Katrina

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: @Jerry...not a hurricane on 09/18/2013 18:49:16 MDT Print View

Katharina it is : )

Maybe I thought you were behaving like a hurricane? (no, just kidding)

Justin Baker
(justin_baker)

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Fresh Air with Terry Gross on 09/22/2013 03:12:18 MDT Print View

a

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
A bump for Snowden leaks on 10/28/2013 23:05:07 MDT Print View

More coming out all the time. Bigger news in Europe right now, or maybe they are just paying more attention.
They are doing a great job on releasing this bit by bit after careful fact checking.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: A bump for Snowden leaks on 10/28/2013 23:09:52 MDT Print View

"Yes we scan"

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: A bump for Snowden leaks on 10/29/2013 08:24:21 MDT Print View

seems like they've been good at dribbling the leaks out over time, keeping this in the news for an extended period

What's interesting, is all the illegal spying defenders say how this is the worst breach in national security ever, but they don't take the blame for illegal or at least improper spying on people

You ask for an example, and they just say it's classified so they can't talk about it

On 60 Minutes they said the CIA budget was leaked. Now maybe I'll agree that that shouldn't have been leaked because then the people we're spying on will better be able to figure out how to defend themselves from spying. But maybe we should know more what the budget is so we, the citizens, can make a judgement about whether this is a good use of our taxes.

masculine über linear logical club
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Europe on 10/29/2013 09:04:45 MDT Print View

The NSA scandal is huge in Europe as we speak. In the news all the time. American government is absolutely not the only government being criticized, thats for sure.

Edited by prse on 10/29/2013 09:05:41 MDT.

James Castleberry
(Winterland76)
Latest developments on 10/29/2013 10:28:25 MDT Print View

How things have changed since June 6 when Guardian published first NSA story.

1. Dianne Feinstein has been biggest supporter of NSA in congress, now she wants a top-to-bottom review. I take anything she says with huge grain of salt but still an indicator of changing sentiment. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/28/dianne-feinstein-nsa-spying_n_4171473.html
2. NYT editorial calls Obama response/explanation "pathetic." http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/opinion/the-white-house-on-spying.html?hp&rref=opinion&_r=1&
3. $575 annual cost to each US taxpayer for NSA spying. http://www.cato.org/blog/nsas-rent-too-damn-high
4. Hearing today at 1p.m. EST with introduction of USA Freedom Act by James Sensenbrenner that will outlaw bulk phone collection http://sensenbrenner.house.gov/legislation/usa-freedom-act-cosponsors.htm

Tim Zen
(asdzxc57) - F

Locale: MI
Where is our apology? on 10/29/2013 15:33:52 MDT Print View

Now Merkle knows how the rest of us feel. At least she is getting an apology.
Nothing for the 330 million US citizens. We get nichts.

And to think Europe game him a peace prize.

Edited by asdzxc57 on 10/29/2013 15:40:04 MDT.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Where is our apology? on 10/29/2013 15:41:33 MDT Print View

"Now Merkle knows how the rest of feel. At least she is getting an apology.
Nothing for the 330 million US citizens. We get nichts.

And to think Europe game him a peace prize."


We don't get one because we aren't even asking for one. There is very little outrage...just wait a couple of minutes and someone will jump in to defend him.
A few decades from now, hopefully sooner, when it becomes glaringly obvious how this was a "very bad" thing, we'll hear people say " no one knew.....".
Apparently the majority is just fine with the NSA and figures it is the way it is and to me they are guilty as well.

masculine über linear logical club
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Funny on 10/29/2013 16:34:59 MDT Print View

The funny thing about Merkel is, that she didn't make a big fuss out of it when it was exposed that the German population was being spied on. But then when she found out that she was also being spied on.. Hypocrisy... Jeez...

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Where is our apology? on 10/29/2013 17:35:09 MDT Print View

What difference does an apology make?

Are we so simplistic that we need to believe they at least feel bad about what they're doing?

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Where is our apology? on 10/29/2013 17:37:31 MDT Print View

No, an apology is not enough. It would mean they are at least being honest now and then they could stop it. In my dreams. I don't think anyone here was that simplistic Craig.