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Fresh Air with Terry Gross
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jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Ok on 01/26/2014 16:27:25 MST Print View

I appreciate you bringing this up.

I don't give Obama a pass, but I don't think he should be thrown out of office. Continued pressure from us will push them to make things better.

It seems like support and criticsm is independent of party affiliation - some Rs and Ds support illegal NSA spying, and some Rs and Ds are critical.

I hate to admit I agree with Rand Paul, but he acknowledged Snowden revelations have raised issues that wouldn't have been otherwise. But you can't give Snowden a pass because he violated his security clearance commitments. Paul said Snowden shouldn't get a lifetime or 30 year sentence but wouldn't get more specific.

I think they should make deal with Snowden. A maximum of 1 year or couple years in a "country club" prison in return for testifying and revealing everything he knows.

It's funny to hear Rogers make up some story about how Snowden is a Russian spy.

Or Chertoff concedes Snowden shouldn't be executed but that's about as far as he's willing to go.

As long as I mentioned Rand Paul, David Gregory asked him twice if he agreed with Huckabee's comments about women's libido and their "sugar uncle" giving them birth control and Rand Paul wouldn't answer, just said that women in his family are doing just fine.

And Rand Paul's solution to economic problems is to lower taxes on corporations. But in the last 50 years, average corporate tax rates have gone down from 50% to 20%. If you further reduce their taxes then it will make our deficit worse. Reducing their taxes has not improved the economy.

That's the thing about the Tea Party - they talk about all these libertarian and religious philosophical ideas, but if you look at what they propose, it's consistent with being bought off by political contributions to favor a few super wealthy people. "Follow the money".

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Ok on 01/28/2014 09:32:13 MST Print View

Pete Sieger just died.

He refused to testify to congress about Communist scare. As a result, he lost popularity. His group, The Weavers, died. etc... That was a very effective way to destroy his political voice.

When we look at NSA data, this is what we should be afraid of. Data will be used to politically destroy opponents.

So far, I don't think the NSA data has been mis-used to attack people, but the potential is worse than anything in the past.

We shouldn't over-state the damage currently done by NSA data collection

We shouldn't under-estimate what could possibly happen in the future if we don't fix this

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Damage currently done on 02/25/2014 09:05:20 MST Print View

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/



Even though Jerry encourages us not to overstate the damage currently done by the NSA collection of data....and only worry about it during a different administration.



@jerry. Your loyalty/blindness is disconcerting but pretty common on both sides and is partly responsible for how bad things are.

Edited by Kat_P on 02/25/2014 09:10:58 MST.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
"The President's proposed reforms are radically insufficient" on 02/25/2014 10:37:56 MST Print View

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/mar/06/can-privacy-be-saved/?insrc=hpss

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Damage currently done on 02/28/2014 20:40:05 MST Print View

The reason not to overstate, is that then if someone finds out you overstated, they will ignore you from then on.

I agree with you that NSA data is serious problem and appreciate your links. I hear many of them on the radio.

I think bigger problem is how our government has been bought. Almost all laws now are corrupted. We have all these problems like NSA data, health care, under employment,... but it's difficult to do anything when the government will do whatever their donors tell them to do. Citizen's United.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Optic Nerve: millions of Yahoo webcam images intercepted by GCHQ on 03/06/2014 23:44:07 MST Print View

With the help of the NSA.



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/27/gchq-nsa-webcam-images-internet-yahoo

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Not just metadata. on 03/18/2014 11:52:21 MDT Print View

This is content.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-surveillance-program-reaches-into-the-past-to-retrieve-replay-phone-calls/2014/03/18/226d2646-ade9-11e3-a49e-76adc9210f19_story.html

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
First Edward Snowden Interview on 03/20/2014 15:02:08 MDT Print View

German television does first Edward Snowden interview, in English.



http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f93_1390833151



Edited to add the link.

Edited by Kat_P on 03/20/2014 15:02:41 MDT.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Another great "Fresh Air" interview worth hearing on 04/02/2014 18:05:02 MDT Print View

http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2014/04/02/298335286/while-warning-of-chinese-cyberthreat-u-s-launches-its-own-attack



Also addresses how much this administration has compromised the freedom of the press .



And on Democracy Now ( hardly a right slant....):

Barack Obama, the least transparent president in US history.

http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2014/3/27/barack_obama_the_least_transparent_president

Edited by Kat_P on 04/02/2014 18:18:16 MDT.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Pulitzer Prize for articles based on Snowden's leaks! on 04/14/2014 18:03:08 MDT Print View

"The Washington Post and Guardian U.S. won the Pulitzer Prize for public service, among the most prestigious awards in journalism, for their articles based on National Security Agency documents leaked by the former government contractor Edward J. Snowden".



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/15/business/media/coverage-of-snowden-and-boston-attack-win-pulitzer-prizes.html?_r=0

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Glenn Greenwald's book comes out today. on 05/13/2014 06:10:52 MDT Print View

"No place to hide:Edward Snowden, the NSA and the US Security State"

Here is a blur about it at Tomdispatch:

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175843/tomgram%3A_glenn_greenwald%2C_how_i_met_edward_snowden/#.U3IC1_f2Aa0.twitter

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Glenn Greenwald's book comes out today. on 05/13/2014 09:45:18 MDT Print View

Here we're entering a climate of Government overreach that is beyond Orwellian and it's not even a blip on the collective radar. I cannot figure out what to make of the fact that people with guns and "Don't Tread On Me" flags will happily rally around outdated relics like Cliven Bundy while revelations of NSA surveillance take on an increasingly surrealistic nature.

I listened to Greenwald on the radio this morning talking about the recent discovery that the the NSA is now also physically intercepting packages from companies the likes of Cisco to install backdoor technologies before routers and other hardware are received by the purchaser.

And still, no serious political or protest movement has managed to coalesce from the right or the left over this issue. You'd think this would be something that could provide some common ground. I've written my share of letters over this and will continue to do so but the fact that no mass movement that I can detect exists is incredibly disheartening.

On the other hand, to expect to solve a problem like this within the realm of democracy and politics when the agencies implementing these programs obviously have no respect for the validity of legal process leaves me wondering what actions can/will be taken that will even be effective.

Is anyone willing to boycott cellular providers, internet service providers, and any other businesses that have knowingly conspired with the NSA?
Dubious.

Edited by xnomanx on 05/13/2014 09:47:07 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Glenn Greenwald's book comes out today. on 05/13/2014 10:07:22 MDT Print View

"...not even a blip on the collective radar..."

There are a lot of people talking about it, like politicians

Clapper testified the NSA doesn't record cell phone calls, Snowden released contradictory info, Clapper apologized for lying

Obama implemented some constraints. Congress is now proposing more constraints. Snowden says its a step in the right direction.

I think there's a lot of people talking about it and making changes.

Not that we should rest, job is only part done.

A lot of the problem is just technology. Back in the bad old days, they had to clip onto a pair of wires. Now everything is digital so it's much easier to spy on people.

So as to not offend Kat ( :) ) I really appreciate her links about this and Glen Greenwald is really interesting to read about/hear. I've been listening to him for years. He used to be on the now defunct Air America radio all the time. They talked about how there's this locked room at the cell phone provider that only the NSA could enter. The communication cables into the cell phone provider first entered this room. There was documentation how they tapped the line and listened to all communications. Just needed a Snowden to make it more interesting to us people.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Glenn Greenwald's book comes out today. on 05/13/2014 10:10:08 MDT Print View

I doubt anyone will boycott the cell companies; apparently they did not have much of a choice in the matter either. Still guilty is my book, but they are not the ones that are supposed to safeguard our rights.

Why no big public outrage? Beats me. When you get the news from the main three or four "outlets" you get more "important" news to worry about.
One would think, as you say, that this could unite us, but when you have even some on the far left call a whistleblower a traitor and enemy of the state you realize that very few use principles to make their judgement calls.

Thanks so much forthe writing you have been doing. To this day I have only written one letter. My contribution to any solution is pretty dismal, but anyone reading the links I have been posting should be better informed and more than mildly outraged. I hope people do take the time to read up, instead of just battling me personally on this issue.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Glenn Greenwald's book comes out today. on 05/13/2014 10:12:21 MDT Print View

call your senators and representative

especially when they're considering some legislation or doing some investigating

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Glenn Greenwald's book comes out today. on 05/13/2014 10:28:40 MDT Print View

MSNBC just happens to be talking to Greenwald

An interesting tidbit, is that initially, Snowden asked Greenwald to install encryption software, but Greenwald just blew him off, not knowing who Snowden was. Then, a friend told him to reconsider and take Snowden seriously. Of course, we now know, that if Snowden had communicated un-encrypted, the NSA would have been listening and may have busted Snowden before he released all his documents. But I can see Greenwald's point - why would he listen to someone that said they had something important to say but you have to install encryption software first - sounds like a paranoid conspiracy theorist mentally ill person...

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Glenn Greenwald's book comes out today. on 05/13/2014 19:32:29 MDT Print View

Just watched part of "United States of Secrets" on PBS ( on my computer).
I think Gellman said it best on the first interview I heard, which prompted me to start this thread; there should have been a national conversation with the American people in which they got to decided if security was worth this kind of intrusion and data collection. The programs that we are hearing about, the collection of data, the spyware should have never happened without the consent of the American people.

Edited: finished watching and I am impressed by the quality of the piece and encouraged that this is being shown to the public and also dismayed at the whole thing.
Hayden gives me the chills.

Edited by Kat_P on 05/13/2014 23:23:28 MDT.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
More in depth Frontline Interviews on 05/14/2014 10:32:28 MDT Print View

In depth interviews with the NSA scandal players; those that broke the law and those that blew the whistle.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/oral-history/united-states-of-secrets/

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: Glenn Greenwald's book comes out today. on 05/14/2014 11:15:35 MDT Print View

Not dismal, Kat. I have this thread bookmarked; it's an excellent reference.

Craig, telecommunications providers are effectively an oligarchy. I don't see where boycotting could be accomplished on any scale large enough to make a difference. Alternate, uncorrupted infrastructure just isn't there, and unplugging entirely isn't a realistic option for the amount of people it would take for a boycott to reach critical mass. Better to go after them directly. Ma Bell got broken up once before. It can happen again.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Glenn Greenwald's book comes out today. on 05/14/2014 12:59:07 MDT Print View

Recorded it last night and just watched it. Frontline is one of the best TV programs and this is one of the best Frontlines.

Hayden gives me the chills also.

One thing they misssed is they knew about 9/11 ahead of time, as in another great Frontline, "The Man Who Knew" http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/knew/

Basically, during Clinton they lucked out and discovered and stopped a plot to crash airplanes into buildings. They knew about Al Queda. During the Bush transition, they warned them - the president, vice president, security people,... but they dismissed.

They didn't need enhanced illegal wiretapping to prevent 9/11, just listen to those high level Clinton people yelling a warning to you : )