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Brett Peugh
(bpeugh) - F - M

Locale: Midwest
The best warranties? on 09/11/2013 08:45:42 MDT Print View

Since it seems this field is changing fast I thought I would ask, so what companies still have the best warranties out there either from cottage, manufacturer or retailers?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: The best warranties? on 09/11/2013 09:05:15 MDT Print View

Outdoor Research.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: The best warranties? on 09/11/2013 09:06:42 MDT Print View

The best warranties are the ones that are short and honest, like Patagonia's -

"If you are not satisfied with one of our products at the time you receive it, or if one of our products does not perform to your satisfaction, you may return it to us for a repair, replacement or refund. Damage due to wear and tear will be repaired at a reasonable charge."

Or REI's
"If you are not satisfied with your REI purchase, you can return it for a replacement or refund. Items must be returned within a year of purchase, ...

"REI’s guarantee doesn’t cover ordinary wear and tear or damage caused by improper use or accidents."


The worst companies include "Lifetime Guarantee" only as a hook, and rely on a book of excuses to avoid replacing failed goods, manufacturer or otherwise.


Those looking for a lifetime guarantee just to "work the system" are increasing the costs to the folks who recognize that "wear and tear" is reality, and expected.

It's not at all surprising that company are changing policy to thwart the scammers. It reduces their cost and the cost to the consumer, and keeps them in a very competitive market.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Well said on 09/11/2013 09:10:25 MDT Print View

Greg, well stated.
Duane

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: The best warranties? on 09/11/2013 09:12:22 MDT Print View

Relating to the other thread, I've got a Marmot Essence that's 3-4 years old, but is reserved only for backpacking and wear it maybe 12 times a year. Would you consider delamination of their membrane normal wear and tear?

Other than that the jacket doesn't have a scratch on it. I should think it would last longer than that.

Adam Rothermich
(aroth87) - F

Locale: Missouri Ozarks
Re: The best warranties? on 09/11/2013 10:35:28 MDT Print View

Leki's warranty on aluminum poles is great.

Adam

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Re: Re: The best warranties? on 09/11/2013 11:25:45 MDT Print View

Relating to the other thread, I've got a Marmot Essence that's 3-4 years old, but is reserved only for backpacking and wear it maybe 12 times a year. Would you consider delamination of their membrane normal wear and tear?

Other than that the jacket doesn't have a scratch on it. I should think it would last longer than that.


according to some BPLers ... yr a scammer =P

delamination in a rain jacket is very common ... probably the most common failure of outdoor gear ... which is why i always tell people to buy from a company with a no questions asked unlimited warranty

if you use it for 12 days a year, that shouldnt be normal wear and tear no matter what BPLers tell you ... good luck with marmot

OR stands behind their products, as does EB, and MEC

dont try to "scam" too much now ;)

Jason G
(JasonG) - F

Locale: iceberg lake
scam on 09/11/2013 11:40:08 MDT Print View

The only 'scam' ive ever done was a returned my neoair to backcountry.com cus it had a slow leak.. I did use it 40-50 nights.. is that normal wear and tear? Am I a bad person? ;)

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Re: The best warranties? on 09/11/2013 12:03:50 MDT Print View

Travis -
"... I've got a Marmot Essence that's 3-4 years old, but is reserved only for backpacking and wear it maybe 12 times a year. Would you consider delamination of their membrane normal wear and tear?"

Three days into an overseas adventure I discovered my eVent jacket was no longer waterproof. When held up to the sun I could see sparkles of light throughout the body and arms. It was about 4 years old.

I do 3 or 4 hikes about 10 days long each year. Most of the time that jacket was stuffed in my pack. My cadence is about 2 steps per second. That results in 120 "bounces/compressions/jostles a minute, 7,200 per hour, 72,000 per day, 720,000 per trip, 2,880,000 per year, not counting daily/weekly use for training and day hikes. 10 million "rubs" over 4 years.

It was a "2.5 layer" jacket and I had simply abraded the "1/2 layer" of tricot (think noseeum mosquito netting) and then the membrane. My new jacket cost $115 (half of the first one), weighs less (7 ounces), and is a better performer, but I'll start testing it at year 3.

A 3-Layer, 2#, $400 jacket would probably last longer.

Performance, Weight, Price. You get to pick two.

Edited by greg23 on 09/11/2013 12:06:06 MDT.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
"rubs" on 09/11/2013 12:09:04 MDT Print View

so basically if you walk around with your jacket stuffed in your pack for a total of 12 days x 4 years ... or 36 days of use ... a rain jacket will fall apart ...

darn "scammers"

dont they know at BPL that if your jacket gets carried in the pack more than a month, its worn out

as to the neo air slow leak guy ... definitely a BPL "scammer" ... neo airs arent supposed to last more than 50 days

;)

Phillip Asby
(PGAsby) - M

Locale: North Carolina
MSR on 09/11/2013 13:12:51 MDT Print View

I've had two experiences with MSR's customer service and found them to be excellent.

A friend gave me a Hubba tent - which had a fly that had delaminated - sent them an email explaining the situation and admitting it was a gift (i.e. not the original owner) and they sent me an RA to return the fly and sent me a new one without hesitation. Pretty remarkable really.

And E
(LunchANDYnner) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
BA on 09/11/2013 13:16:27 MDT Print View

Big Agnes has a great warranty.

The problem with "normal wear and tear" is that it's a very broad, loose definition.

Just like others said, if the jacket is packed and gets bumped abajillion times, but only worn a few times and fails, is that "normal?" Or is wear from constantly wearing it normal?

Of course, none of us should expect an ultralight jacket to last forever, but people should also not be shamed by the community for standing up for what they think is a premature product failure like that zorg guy did on the marmot thread.

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: Tokyo, Japan
Patagonia, Gore-Tex and Smartwool on 09/11/2013 15:20:05 MDT Print View

Patagonia Japan has been good about exchanging items purchased online from their USA outlet that did not fit well or colors I did not really like even though in some cases I wore them for ~2yrs. Just need to have the receipt.

Sent a ~20yr old Gore-Tex jacket and pants into Gore Japan and they told me to go to any store and pick out what I wanted and they would have it sent to me. ~5 days later new a Montbell Storm Cruiser set was delivered.

Sent some holey underwear back to Smartwool this last July while I was in the US and they sent me new ones within ~10 days.

Brett Peugh
(bpeugh) - F - M

Locale: Midwest
clarification on 09/12/2013 14:40:07 MDT Print View

I was coming more from the point that the companies would stand behind what they sell so that if something was used minimally and it failed that they would replace. I don't expect them to take back items that were heavily worn and failed by a more normal standard but those that might have some wear and a feature on it failed long before it should have. If I wear a rain jacket 25 times a year for a full day, taking it on and off, that zipper should last beyond 5 years if I paid above $75 for it.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: clarification on 09/12/2013 15:10:56 MDT Print View

the problem is that unless a company states it explicitly, you never know

many the CSR is having a bad day, or is jaded ... maybe they have secret quotas and budgets to scrimp on warranty service ... many companies view warranty work as a cost to be reduced, rather than an opportunity for more sales and brand loyalty

ONLY when a company puts it out there "for any reason, any time" ... do you have any certainty of coverage

which is why i always recommend people buy OR rain jackets here ... delamination is probably the most common non repairable gear failure most people will experience ...

with companies like OR, EB and MEC .... you dont have to argue, you dont have to worry ... theyll take care of you

and i encourage people to take care of such companies with your business if their products meet your needs

;)

Brett Peugh
(bpeugh) - F - M

Locale: Midwest
my take on 09/13/2013 11:22:19 MDT Print View

All of my hats and gloves are already OR. My next rain jacket/pant will be an OR. For fleece I use Patagonia because I believe they make the best stuff out there, there are usually sales everywhere and the still have a good warranty to go with it. For down I will probably use EB since they have the tall sizes. I don't mind paying and extra $20 and carrying an extra 4oz around with me knowing that the gear is solid, the company stands behind it and that I don't have to baby it every step of the way.

Mike R
(redpoint) - F

Locale: British Columbia
in my experience ... on 09/14/2013 15:31:43 MDT Print View

Outstanding:

Patagonia, Cascade Designs, BD, MEC, EXPED [amazing actually], Arc'teryx [but they're s-l-o-w and I live right next to their HQ], North Face [at least in the 1990s - don't own any of their gear now], ZT Knives.

Dismal:

Mountain Hardwear - I've had a few claims [tent related] and they never, ever responded to my emails.


Great but no direct, personal experience:

Surefire lights - if people here use their products, they're said to be amazing to deal with.