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eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
marmot "lifetime" warranty worthless for me on 09/10/2013 18:51:29 MDT Print View

some folks have here have had issues with marmot warranties, especially with their rain jackets and delamination ... at least one BPL member doesnt even waste his time contacting them with warranty issues

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=75834

i dont have much marmot gear, my main item being a 4 year pack that doesnt see much use ... i have many better climbing packs

when i dropped the pack off to marmot a few weeks ago, the pack was in quite good condition




as you can see of the interior the pack is delaminating from the inside



they responsded ...

Hi Eric,

We looked at your BackPack, looks like it's worn out. Would you be interested in our RPR deal, which offers 50% off for a new back pack.
You can choose any you like on our website for half price.
Your Alpha 30 shows normal wear so it's not something we can repair/replace.

Please advise,
Thank you


now i know a thing or two about worn out packs, with the minimal use this pack sees, i wouldnt call it worn out at all

personally i really dont care at all if marmot covers it or not, i have several other packs i use ... i barely even use the marmot for city activities, never mind outdoors

so the bottom line?

marmot's "lifetime" warranty is basically worthless IME for even gear that isnt used that much ... delamination of the pack coating is not covered in my case ...

keep that in mind the next time you look at a marmot product

;)

Edited by bearbreeder on 09/10/2013 18:52:04 MDT.

G H
(NotLight) - F

Locale: Midwest
Warranty on 09/10/2013 20:11:18 MDT Print View

For reference: TNF replaced my 10 year old tent fly for free, no questions asked. Big Agnes repaired my tent that I told them I bought used for free, no questions asked.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: marmot "lifetime" warranty worthless for me on 09/10/2013 20:28:13 MDT Print View

I have a Marmot Essence jacket about 3-4 years old that sees minimal use (12 days a year I wear it). It started delaminating last week. Looks like I'm SOL.

And E
(LunchANDYnner) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
+1 Big Agnes on 09/10/2013 20:30:18 MDT Print View

Big Agnes has great customer service. Replaced my sleeping pad I bought used for free no questions asked.

Sucks to hear about your experience.

Jason G
(JasonG) - F

Locale: iceberg lake
?? on 09/11/2013 00:42:00 MDT Print View

Im not not sure why you keep quoting "lifetime" warranty??

I see nothing on their site that says lifetime warranty...



"We warrant every product we make to be free of manufacturer defects. Should you have a warranty issue, return the item to us. We will repair it if possible or replace all valid warranty items. Normal wear and tear, modifications, alterations, negligence, damage and use for a purpose other than for which it was designed, are not covered by the Marmot Warranty."

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: ?? on 09/11/2013 01:20:56 MDT Print View

m not not sure why you keep quoting "lifetime" warranty??

I see nothing on their site that says lifetime warranty...


at the time i bought the item marmot had a "lifetime guarantee/warranty" on many of their products ... its quoted on various places on the internet still from old threads ... for example

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/178752-Marmot-or-Patagonia-Which-Jacket-is-better

and you can still see it on their product registration page here ...



https://marmot.com/registration/info?country=AI&submit=Continue


somehow im not surprised if thats changed

;)

Edited by bearbreeder on 09/11/2013 03:11:57 MDT.

d k
(dkramalc) - MLife
Re: Re: marmot "lifetime" warranty worthless for me on 09/11/2013 06:16:33 MDT Print View

That really stinks. Years ago my Marmot rain jacket delaminated, and when I brought it into the Berkeley store, they just told me to pick out a new one and take it home, no questions asked. Have you tried calling and complaining?

J R
(JRinGeorgia) - F
use the back door on 09/11/2013 06:56:51 MDT Print View

A little online sleuthing will get you a long way.

Marmot is owned by Jarden Corporation, a nearly $7 billion conglomerate that has over 100 well-known brands (including Coleman, ExOfficio, Rawlings, K2, Sunbeam, Crock Pot, Mr. Coffee, First Alert, the list goes on and on).

Headquarters is in Rye, NY, tel 914-967-9400. Gregory S. Shearson is the CEO/President of the Outdoor Solutions Unit. Call and ask for his office. Don't expect to speak with him, you will get to his receptionist. Explain your situation to him/her, using the word "defective" to describe the material delaminating and your expectation under the warranty. Most companies have an "executive escalation" department, basically a separate customer service team that works directly under the executive offices.

I bet through that channel you'll get it taken care of. Though I agree you shouldn't have to.

Zorg Zumo
(BurnNotice) - F
Cry on my shoulder on 09/11/2013 07:25:06 MDT Print View

Customer Service

Brett Peugh
(bpeugh) - F - M

Locale: Midwest
yeah on 09/11/2013 08:43:05 MDT Print View

Marmot used to have a really good warranty dept. but that has been at least 4 years.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Cry on my shoulder on 09/11/2013 08:43:23 MDT Print View

Thanks for that helpful post, Zorg.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: marmot "lifetime" warranty worthless for me on 09/11/2013 08:47:35 MDT Print View

I had the inside of a pack do that but it was because of something I had in the pack rubbing against the PU coating. I suspect that is what happened here given you probably had cams in there, etc. I would agree that this is simple wear and tear and not a manufacturing defect.

Maybe you are spoiled by the return policies of REI and MEC the way they used to be?

Colin Krusor
(ckrusor) - M

Locale: Northwest US
Delamination on 09/11/2013 09:19:19 MDT Print View

That assumption doesn't make sense to me, Dave. In the posted photo, the delamination is creeping across the entire surface of that panel, right up to the edges of the seams. And the pattern of peeling looks exactly like the delamination I've seen on many other old PU coated articles like tent flys, jackets, and drybags used for soft stuff like sleeping bags. Some polyurethanes (polyethers) are more resistant to this kind of degradation (hydrolysis) than others (polyesters), but all PU coatings are susceptible. The fact that people consistently have this problem with Marmot gear suggests that it is at least partly attributable to their choice of PU material or their manufacturing methods.

I don't have any opinion about Eric's options in dealing with Marmot, and he might or might not have had abrasive things in that pack. We don't know. But it looks exactly like typical PU delamination that can occur without any abrasion. Given the information we have right now, your assertion that the damage was probably due to something Eric did doesn't make sense, and frankly it sounds like the kind of imaginative excuse often invented by warranty departments to avoid being accountable.

If you have some discomfort in general with placing any blame on Marmot, and you're looking for a fault in Eric's claim, I can see several arguments that are better than the abrasion excuse. For example, it could be argued that, since degradation and delamination over time is such a well-known property of PU coatings, people should expect it when they buy PU coated articles. In other words, like food that will eventually spoil, PU coatings should be assumed to have limited lifetimes. It is forseeable, inherent to this class of product, and not a defect.

Edited by ckrusor on 09/11/2013 09:32:56 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Delamination on 09/11/2013 09:24:42 MDT Print View

Perhaps.

However, is the delamination inside the pack affecting its performance?

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: marmot "lifetime" warranty worthless for me on 09/11/2013 09:59:37 MDT Print View

I had this problem with Eagle Creek. I sent in a convertible suitcase with a sticky lining. They tried to tell me it was beyond the "lifetime" of the product. I asked them to reconsider or return the item so I could hand it over to my state Attorney General for litigation. I got a new suitcase.

I think a lot of manufacturers are getting stuck with warranty claims on deteriorating coatings and trying to wiggle off the hook.

Invoke the consumer protection laws and see what happens. I encouraged a friend to do that with a faulty VW diesel car and she's driving a new car today. Stand your ground.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Re: marmot "lifetime" warranty worthless for me on 09/11/2013 11:12:53 MDT Print View

I had the inside of a pack do that but it was because of something I had in the pack rubbing against the PU coating. I suspect that is what happened here given you probably had cams in there, etc. I would agree that this is simple wear and tear and not a manufacturing defect.

Maybe you are spoiled by the return policies of REI and MEC the way they used to be?


i dont use this packs to carry my cams and ropes ... its not big enough .... nor is there any frame

i basically use it 2 weeks a year for short day walks ... and 4 weeks for carrying clothes to and from the gym

no doubt sitting around the closet for 10-11 months of the year constitutes worn out for you

i basically told them that im going to stop by their local office here and pick up my pack ... im not going to argue with em, i have other packs from other manufacturers that have seen much more daily use

ill give the pack to a friend/family member who needs one, with the cavaet about the delamination

;)

Edited by bearbreeder on 09/11/2013 11:17:41 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: marmot "lifetime" warranty worthless for me on 09/11/2013 11:43:41 MDT Print View

"no doubt sitting around the closet for 10-11 months of the year constitutes worn out for you"

Well no.

But frankly, we really have no idea what the history of the pack is. We don't know if you got it wet and decided not to dry the inside. Maybe your gym water bottle leaked. Maybe not. This isn't an initial quality issue.

What did you pay for the pack in the first place? Maybe the Return Gods are frowning on you for all of the gear you have returned to MEC (j/k)?

You didn't answer my question: Does the minor delamination affect the performance of the pack? Is the 50% off Pro Deal for you not sufficient? How many forums are you going to post this at?

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: marmot "lifetime" warranty worthless for me on 09/11/2013 12:02:46 MDT Print View

i paid around 80-90$ including tax and everything ... as i said the money is irrelevant, i told marmot ill come by and pick up my pack

the problem with delamination is that the the coating will keep on peeling and peeling off ... everything inside will get snowy white and yellow in the process

now no pack short of a dry style bag is waterproof, but the manufactures (even cottage ones) use coated fabrics for a reason, to provide some water resistance ... as a pack delaminates the pack will simply soak up more and more water

now mind you one can still use the pack, just like one can use those chryslers that had premature paint problems that kept on coming apart ... paint jobs after all have a minimal "effect' on the performance of the car, but then peeling paint probably shouldnt be covered either at BPL =P

i could probably MAKE money by picking 50% off some very expensive item ... and then turning around and selling it off ... im honestly not going to bother

as to the forums? ... this is my experience with marmot ... theres been ALOT of marmot delamination stories going around for rain jackets, some with minimal use as someone posted above ... and it seems a cr@pshoot on whether theyll cover it at all

some BPLers will no doubt think its "scamming" the system and that gear sitting in the closet should fall apart ...

for others ... they can read this and decide for themselves if they want to deal with marmot ... when there are other companies out there who you dont need to argue with

or perhaps some people prefer that everyone just "shut up" about their experiences buy the latest greatest shiniest gear ...

;)

Edited by bearbreeder on 09/11/2013 12:05:10 MDT.

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
"marmot "lifetime" warranty worthless for me" on 09/11/2013 13:04:40 MDT Print View

If you truly feel this is a manufacturer defect, then you should pursue it. Tell Marmot roughly how many times you've used the pack and with what type of gear stowed inside and tell them you don't feel that's a reasonable life expectancy.

However if you do have a lot of time on the bag or you were packing abrasives then I would have to side with Marmot because I don't think any warranty was ever intended to cover normal wear and tear and it's the abuse of the policies by people who either believed it meant that or simply saw it as a loophole that have caused manufacturers and distributors to tighten up their policies.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: marmot "lifetime" warranty worthless for me on 09/11/2013 13:16:49 MDT Print View

Eric, just shut up and buy me a new rain jacket. ;)

Correction: a SHINY new rain jacket. Dang thing better sparkle.

Edited by T.L. on 09/11/2013 13:17:48 MDT.