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Ultralight Group Cooking
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Maia Jordan
(maia) - MLife

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/03/2013 13:41:15 MDT Print View

Companion forum thread to:

Ultralight Group Cooking

Daniel Pittman
(pitsy) - M

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Ultralight Group Cooking: A crummy commercial? on 09/03/2013 14:31:40 MDT Print View

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5OWoG44VAw

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/03/2013 17:41:30 MDT Print View

Was this supposed to be an article? Could have fooled me.....
It came off more as an article you wanted US to write, not read. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I pay to read this stuff? Really?

Edited by bigfoot2 on 09/03/2013 17:53:24 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Fix and sell my failed product. on 09/03/2013 18:15:22 MDT Print View

So I get deleted for giving this a bad grade.

BPL has now stooped so low to delete comments about the quality or lack of in what is expected to be valued pay for content.

This is not an article. It's an ad, period

Now in my experience doing group trips with other BPLrs, is that everyone like to cook and prepare their own meals with their own set ups. Sharing gear gets some flak here.

The item being developed or not here is pretty limited. I can see why it did not get funded.

Ryan. I want an explanation as to why my post was deleted.

Edited by kthompson on 09/03/2013 18:39:39 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/03/2013 18:27:58 MDT Print View

"I want an explanation as to why my post was deleted."

Ken, if they deleted the text of your post and then left a note of which moderator did it, then that would be one thing.

However, if they delete the entire post as if it never existed, then you know which person did that. There's only one.

--B.G.--

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Fix and sell my failed product. on 09/03/2013 18:57:56 MDT Print View

True Bob, I amended my post. Did you notice the ad has not anything useful to add about group cooking? False advertising on BPL's part. Bad title. I suggest a different one above.

Edited by kthompson on 09/03/2013 18:58:28 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Fix and sell my failed product. on 09/03/2013 19:02:07 MDT Print View

It's really interesting to see Ryan Jordan do anything like that. I mean, in a weird sort of way.

--B.G.--

M G
(drown) - F - MLife

Locale: Shenandoah
"Ultralight Group Cooking" on 09/03/2013 20:50:11 MDT Print View

OK so i though last weeks' articles were a bit below the bar...Maybe we are at a Luau and this is a limbo line and the bar is suppose to be getting lower. I don't mean to insult the author of the piece but it's just not the kind of material I would expect to pay for, especially in the context of what has been provided here in the past.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: Fix and sell my failed product. on 09/03/2013 20:51:59 MDT Print View

Would now be a bad time to ask when the next packrafting video is coming out?

Daniel Pittman
(pitsy) - M

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/03/2013 21:00:20 MDT Print View

The only way this 'article' has anything to do with group cooking, is that a lightweight yet sturdy pot-stand is needed to hold larger pots. But who cooks large meals with a tiny alcohol stove? Surely not a group of hungry hikers!

This product is a band-aid on your elbow, when you've got a skinned knee.

It's the most common problem inventors have; they don't invent solutions to real problems. They invent problems to solve.

Peter S (masc. über linear logical club)
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Hmm on 09/03/2013 21:15:56 MDT Print View

Wow, this was an awesome article!

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Fix and sell my failed product. on 09/03/2013 21:28:09 MDT Print View

How much alcohol would you need to boil a half gallon of icy cold water? All at one go. You can only use this stand(theoretically as it's not available) with certain a type of alcohol stove. Bet my Trangia is too tall. And my Starlyte is too low.

I noticed that the, ahem, author has no membership here. Probably won't get one now.

Edited by kthompson on 09/03/2013 21:32:44 MDT.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Fix and sell my failed product. on 09/03/2013 21:35:16 MDT Print View

Aha! I think it is available. Click in the Kickstarter link, and there is a link to his website where they can be ordered.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re:Damn. on 09/03/2013 21:48:10 MDT Print View

Of course I did not click on the Kickstarter link. $25 stand only.

Can be used as a saw. If you're reaching that far why not include fish scaler on the list of features.

And now with some other posts here now Ryan do you see the need for more deletion? Alcohol and larger pots? How about a Clikstand? Looks even more stable. Can convert to canister fuel system too.

http://www.clikstand.com/

Oh look, Hendrik backed this project. It's cursed.

Edited by kthompson on 09/03/2013 21:58:39 MDT.

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
not quite what I was expecting on 09/03/2013 22:17:34 MDT Print View

I usually don't pile in on these threads, but I was really hoping for a good article on cooking for more than 2. However, in the overall scheme of things it's probably not the worst thing that's going to happen to someone this week. What is the go to stove set up for cooking for a group of 3 to 4?

Ross Bleakney
(rossbleakney) - MLife

Locale: Cascades
Re: Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/04/2013 10:41:14 MDT Print View

I think this idea has merit, but I think the title is all wrong. Once you start talking about group cooking, you move away from alcohol. I love my little alcohol stove, but when I hike with someone else, it just makes more sense to use a canister stove. Once we hike with a big group, or for a long time, it makes sense to use a Jetboil or white gas. Likewise with melting snow for water.

On the other hand, there are places where dealing with a canister stove is difficult (it may be hard to take them on an airplane or buy a canister at your destination). So, there is that.

The greatest value I see of this setup is for anglers who camp in areas where wood burning is not allowed. Typically, you can't guarantee that you will catch a fish. So, you want a stove setup that will allow you to boil water for dinner and breakfast, as well as provide a way to cook some fish (if you are that lucky). I could easily see bringing a Caldera Cone (for boiling water) along with this (one ounce) stand and a flat, aluminum (or titanium) fry pan. Off the top of my head, I think that would be the lightest setup you can have for those conditions.

Douglas Frick
(Otter) - MLife

Locale: Wyoming
re: Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/04/2013 10:48:39 MDT Print View

I usually read the comments expecting some insight, experience, or further suggestions. I regret reading the comments this time.


I sawed three L-shaped pieces of light steel from an old baseboard heater cover, and cut two notches into each so they lock together into a tripod. Works well and breaks down nicely; 1.1 oz. I made several 1-cm welded-wire stands to fit various alcohol stoves, which have the advantage of fitting around the stove and protecting it (although the pot does a good job of that, too); 1.3-1.5 oz.

My lightest, and unfortunately most ungainly, is the LaMar Kirby coat hanger stand (the stove isn't bad either). The stand holds larger pots and is easily re-shaped; 0.7 oz.

http://www.thefoodguys.com/backpackstove.htm

http://zenstoves.net/PotStands-Other.htm

Edited by Otter on 09/04/2013 10:54:46 MDT.

Greg Pruitt
(gwpruitt) - M
Too Sad its Funny... on 09/04/2013 11:21:40 MDT Print View

Agree with all the comments noting that:
1. This is not an article
2. Not worth paying for such content
3. Concept - even if presented better is unrealistic for groups
4. This is a commercial not an informative article


What's next - a series on large group camping in poncho/tarp shelters?

Get real folks!

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
"Ultralight Group Cooking" on 09/04/2013 11:38:29 MDT Print View

I was expecting, from the title, to see some sort of comparison of UL stoves for group cooking purposes. Which would be an article the community would probably be interest in.

Instead, I saw a cool pot stand. I'll give it props, it's cool. I kind of want one.

But- this article was poorly titled and I do agree with the others that this was really an advertisement and not an effort at educating the community. And I think most of us would not classify an alcohol stove as a viable stove for "group cooking".

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: "Ultralight Group Cooking" on 09/04/2013 12:19:42 MDT Print View

You all missed the point. It is about Kickstarter and the quest to justify group funding for the common good.

;)

Erik Basil
(EBasil) - M

Locale: Atzlan
Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/04/2013 13:16:33 MDT Print View

I'm with Dena.

Well, I mean "I agree with Dena" on this one. :) I was expecting something excellent, like Ryan Jordan's article on the fry-bake pans and group cooking.

Having just come back from 49 meals on trail with 12 persons and two Fire Maple 117t's, I am always interested in more hot, smart ideas about group cooking that results in great food without too much weight penalty.

BTW, anyone want to estimate what a pint of olive oil weighs? Ahhhh, it was so good, though!

robert van putten
(Bawana) - F

Locale: Planet Bob
49 for 12? on 09/04/2013 13:49:23 MDT Print View

49 meals for 12 people -
That's four meals per person with one leftover.

So who got the extra meal? :)

I'm impressed though, cooking for six people over each stove. I'd be interested in the size of pot you used over those stoves, and how much fuel was used.

It probably doesn't get much lighter than that.
I've used a Trangia 25 for five people.

I'll cook up a mess of grub for three in the big pot and they get to share it out in bowls, and cook for my wife and I in the small pot and we'll eat right out of that together.
The only other way I see managing would be a gallon sized pot and a hot white gas stove.

Karl Kerschner
(Distelfink) - MLife
prototype Critter CR-1 Stand over alcohol stove on 09/04/2013 14:27:55 MDT Print View

Q&A as requested by the author of the article "Ultralight Group Cooking" ;-)

1.Does this idea have merit?

Yes, if your alcohol stove requires a stand.

Its greatest value might be as pot support over the new coals of a small, hot, cooking wood fire.

Another potential use is as an aid to bake scones.

2.Are there better solutions?

Hardware cloth is one competitive alternative. It is less expensive, immediately and widely available, easier to make, and competitive in all other aspects; but it is not as elegant.

3.What do you use?
Brasslite alcohol stoves. They have a built-in ss pot stand.
The brass stoves are heavier than cat stoves but the stand is built-in, brass is an efficient conductor of heat, and its simmer ring allows you to better cook certain foods and save fuel in the right conditions.
Turbo I-D for solo.
Turbo II-D for two.
Turbo II-D with attached stand for wider pots for two people, or as "training wheels" when the other person is new to cooking on the trail. Used occasionally.

In the interest of full disclosure I do not own an interest in nor am in any way affiliated with Brasslite.com; I am only a fan.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
review on 09/04/2013 16:10:49 MDT Print View

was there an actual real tested review with real world usage somewhere?

;)

Adam Kilpatrick
(oysters) - MLife

Locale: South Australia
Re: review on 09/04/2013 20:46:23 MDT Print View

That would be useful. I can see some merit in this stove in the right niche. Shame the article is like an advertisement. I agree its a bit below standard. Weird.

All can be amended with some nice independent reviews though...maybe send it out to a couple of people!

:-)

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
BPL Standards on 09/04/2013 21:18:20 MDT Print View

Thinking about submitting. There are suppose to be standards See here.


http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/authors.html

But being BPL there is a catch 22 when it comes to finances.

6. AUTHOR is paid upon article publication.

yet further down the page.


Backpacking Light doesn't normally offer financial compensation for contributors,

but we do offer complimentary memberships to all contributors, as well as complimentary Lifetime Memberships to regular contributors.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: review on 09/04/2013 21:23:07 MDT Print View

Okay, after careful consideration, I figured it out.

When ther article was being uploaded, the SSL Certificate warning popped up, which accidentally erased the 2nd half of the article. Sounds plausible to me.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Train wreck on 09/04/2013 21:24:36 MDT Print View

But the copyright is expired also. Look at the bottom of the page.

Shambles.

Next week looks lame too. Grayson Highlands again, yet another New Balance review.

Edited by kthompson on 09/04/2013 21:29:24 MDT.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Train wreck on 09/04/2013 21:33:55 MDT Print View

Where is the editorial calendar, Ken? I found an old thread that mentioned it, but the URL went to a page that hadn't been updated in years.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: BPL Standards on 09/04/2013 22:05:30 MDT Print View

No editorial calendar since Addie left. But the weekly newsletter gives next weeks titles

Edited by kthompson on 09/04/2013 22:06:10 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Train wreck on 09/04/2013 23:00:53 MDT Print View

"But the copyright is expired also. Look at the bottom of the page."

I tell them about that over and over, but they ignore me.

--B.G.--

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: BPL Standards on 09/04/2013 23:07:52 MDT Print View

The neglect is a real shame Bob. Found something else that is behind being updated

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ULAZ.html

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: BPL Standards on 09/05/2013 07:22:54 MDT Print View

Thank you, Ken. I had the newsletter turned off.

Tony Ronco
(tr-browsing) - MLife
Article or Ad? on 09/06/2013 10:06:02 MDT Print View

+1 on that this "article" is pure ad ...


Article Title Could have been more transparent on its intent -
From the title, I was hoping that the article would have a market review, or comparisons with alternatives to group cooking with alcohol stove such as an Esbit titanium folding stove without its tray (ala Lite Trail ... in which the Cricket stand is very similar to), the TD Caldera, the now no longer available MBD group stove, the Trangia 28 stand, or the other many various stands that are available as DIY projects, or available commercially by cottage craftsmen, (etc).

(by the way, I've been in group cooking situations using alcohol stoves that have, one time or another, utilized the first four alternatives listed above and they all worked fine ... the Caldera seemed to boil water faster utilizing a MSR 2 L pot ... but that's a subjective, not a measured, observation ... hmm, good basis for an article ;-)

Philosophy ? -
RJ in his editorial note says "I'm not impressed with most DIY solutions - arranging rocks, stabbing tent stakes into the ground ..." From my perspective, this doesn't seems to be in alignment with the philosophy approach expressed in his video series “The SUL Wanderer” ... (specifically where RJ fore goes a BushBuddy by arranging rocks into a small fire ring) or in his "SUL Mindset" series, that it emphasized less vs lighter mindset (and that had the rather provocative sub-title, containing: "One important goal of SUL is to take less stuff, not buy new stuff. If you have to buy new stuff, then I think that regardless of your pack weight, consider that you may have transcended away from the ultralight philosophy and into ultralight hypocrisy")
Opps! wait a minute I just realized this is a UL article not a SUL article: my bad (*smile*)

Bob Bankhead
(wandering_bob) - MLife

Locale: Oregon, USA
Re: Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/06/2013 10:21:55 MDT Print View

As with any folding stove, the weakest point is the hinge. This one LOOKS like a rivet of some kind. Is it field-replaceable? If not, why not?

The folding titanium Esbit tablet stove that BPL offered many years ago had this same problem. folks took to drilling out the rivet and replacing it with a bolt and nut.

I didn't see this as a commercial. Full disclosure was given early on that this had been a Kickstarter project that did not get funded and that the design was being presented for those who might wish to make their own, or something similar.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/06/2013 12:01:30 MDT Print View

"Full disclosure was given early on that this had been a Kickstarter project that did not get funded and that the design was being presented for those who might wish to make their own, or something similar."

Actually, this is incorrect. The abstract says nothing about Kickstarter or anything.

--B.G.--

Bob Bankhead
(wandering_bob) - MLife

Locale: Oregon, USA
Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/06/2013 13:21:52 MDT Print View

Bob -

Forget the abstract; read the article, especially the Editor's Note that leads off the article. Here is the second paragraph of same:

"Editor's Note
........1st paragraph deliberately deleted......

Peter attempted to get this project funded on Kickstarter, but it didn't go. That doesn't mean the design doesn't have value, so we're publishing the design idea and prototype description here for the benefit of the BPL community. - RJ"

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/06/2013 13:36:40 MDT Print View

Mr. Bankhead, I'm sorry that you do not understand.

One cannot read the article without purchasing it. One would expect to read the abstract and determine whether it was worthy of purchase. In this case, the abstract doesn't do much that is accurate.

--B.G.--

Bob Bankhead
(wandering_bob) - MLife

Locale: Oregon, USA
Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/06/2013 14:13:41 MDT Print View

I was not aware that one could purchase individual articles. That doesn't sound very cost effective to me.

I does sounds like an excellent reason to purchase a BPL membership so such maneuvers are unnecessary as all articles, reviews, and other site content is thereby always available.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/06/2013 14:29:13 MDT Print View

"I was not aware that one could purchase individual articles. That doesn't sound very cost effective to me.

I does sounds like an excellent reason to purchase a BPL membership so such maneuvers are unnecessary as all articles, reviews, and other site content is thereby always available."

Mister Bankhead, if you choose to pour your own money down a rathole, then that is your decision. I've held a paid membership before, and I can see the general trend (downward).

--B.G.--

James Klein
(jnklein21) - M

Locale: Southeast
Re: Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/06/2013 19:04:36 MDT Print View

If Bob G was really on his game he would have noticed Ken's immediate summary before he had purchased it....oh wait.

I imagine Bob doesn't really need financial advice -- of coarse maybe its time for him to purchase a new fast zoom camera lense??

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Ultralight Group Cooking on 09/06/2013 19:09:40 MDT Print View

"If Bob G was really on his game he would have noticed Ken's immediate summary before he had purchased it....oh wait."

Of course I read Ken's summary. I didn't just notice it.

"I imagine Bob doesn't really need financial advice -- of coarse maybe its time for him to purchase a new fast zoom camera lense??"

Of course. And of course I have a new fast zoom camera lens.

What is your point, exactly?

--B.G.--

James Klein
(jnklein21) - M

Locale: Southeast
levity on 09/06/2013 20:05:29 MDT Print View

Simmer down Bob.

Point 1: Ken blessed us with his cliff notes within 10 mins of the article....only to have his post deleted. The joke was, "well if Bob just would have read Ken's review then he wouldn't have been hoodwinked....'oh wait' Kens negative summary was deleted"

Point 2: I am sure you are well able to forecast whether you will be better off buying the few articles you're likely to be interested in separately or dropping $25 all at once...and the horror if you end up wanting to see 7-8 articles in a year. The joke was "Then again, I could be wrong (with your interest in photographing wildlife), if it is time to buy a new lens (wouldn't be cheap right?), then examples of how to get the most mileage outta each $5 or $10 bill might be highly welcomed.

For what its worth, I was gonna right..."whenever Bob wants to read an article he just logs in under gross bob"

Edited by jnklein21 on 09/06/2013 20:07:01 MDT.

John Hillyer
(TrNameLucky) - MLife
Re: Re: BPL Standards on 09/06/2013 21:07:33 MDT Print View

Ken,

OK...so how does one receive or find the weekly newsletter. First I have heard of it.

Thanks

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: levity on 09/06/2013 21:23:55 MDT Print View

" For what its worth, I was gonna right..."whenever Bob wants to read an article he just logs in under gross bob" "

That would be Cameron Kennedy.

--B.G.--

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
stand on 09/08/2013 19:16:58 MDT Print View

Ive always used a circle of wire mesh thats a little less than the ID of pot.
simple, cheap, readily available.

What the maker of this doesnt realize, is that the distance from the stove to the pot is critical on alcohol stoves. You want flame to cover the pot bottom, but not go up sides to be most efficient.

One size dont fit all.

Its not a very good idea IMO, and its frickin heavy too.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Article or Ad? on 09/09/2013 06:43:52 MDT Print View

Hopefully BPL will see this as a learning experience. We still have expected standards of quality from this publication. And the bar is set above this one, certainly.

Richard May
(richardmay) - M

Locale: Swamplands.
some amazing stuff on 09/09/2013 07:48:19 MDT Print View

There are some amazing articles on BPL and honestly hope to see more stuff like this. How about thermoregulation in deserts and tropical rain-forests?

This, well... it is seriously under par.

Peter S (masc. über linear logical club)
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Quality vs Quantity on 09/09/2013 08:04:58 MDT Print View

Rather have one good article per week than 1 good and 1 mediocre "fill article".

Jacob Smith
(Wrongturn) - MLife

Locale: The Soda
Re: on 10/09/2013 17:40:37 MDT Print View

Lite trail 1600 and a Monatauk gnat for group cooking. Even use the canister stand for extra stability.