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Canister Stove Hazard?
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Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Canister Stove Hazard? on 08/30/2013 19:18:18 MDT Print View

I'm curious -

What happens when you knock over a canister stove that is not designed to run inverted?

Does the liquid fuel immediately drive the stove into "fire ball" mode?

Or do you have ample opportunity to grab the canister and set it upright?

Anyone with personal experience (and willing to admit it)?



Edit: The configuration in question is a basic burner head attached directly to a canister.

Edited by greg23 on 08/30/2013 20:04:09 MDT.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Canister Stove Hazard? on 08/30/2013 19:42:14 MDT Print View

Greg,

I deliberately tested a remote canister stove that was not designed to be inverted and it was fine, it worked very well.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Canister Stove Hazard? on 08/30/2013 19:49:48 MDT Print View

I'm asking about a burn head attached directly to a canister, that inadvertently gets knocked over.

Does it go into "fire ball mode" immediately, or does one have time to picked up the stove and set it upright, without consequence?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Re: Re: Canister Stove Hazard? on 08/30/2013 19:57:52 MDT Print View

My apologies, I misread your post.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Canister Stove Hazard? on 08/30/2013 20:03:46 MDT Print View

Yes it does, big, yellow flame. For extra hazard, did it while eating pizza, in the house even. Used my Micro Rocket. It might be bigger if a stove with a preheat loop is used, allowing the fuel to be fully vaporized first.
Duane

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Canister Stove Hazard? on 08/30/2013 20:06:55 MDT Print View

Duane,
You're obviously still here (maybe minus some hair)...

What where you able to do to remedy the situation?

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Canister Stove Hazard? on 08/30/2013 21:54:29 MDT Print View

Hi Greg

Well, you have what is called an 'OOPS' moment. :-)

Yes, liquid fuel will try to reach the jet and the burner, but it will be limited by the jet size and the needle valve. So yes, you will get a bit of a fireball.

However, in practice, it may not be quite that bad. The jet will be hot, and the burner head will be very hot, so the fuel is likely to vaporise, somewhere along the line. If you are really quick and the stove was quite hot (and you are lucky), all you might get is a bit of a sputter, a brief fireball, and maybe set something alight around the stove.

I would not say 'ample opportunity' for recovery, but 'some opportunity'.

Cheers

Randy Nelson
(rlnunix) - F - M

Locale: Rockies
Re :"Canister Stove Hazard?" on 08/30/2013 22:02:16 MDT Print View

I keep thinking about this when the reference is made to the guy who started the fire with the alky stove near Fort Collins, CO, last year. The story is he was using his alky stove and turned around to find a fire started. If you start a fire with ANY stove operating normally, you'd have to think serious user error. Like kicking over a stove. I own a couple of canister stoves and more than a few alky stoves. If you kick an alky stove over into the dry grass or a Pocket Rocket into the same dry grass, I'd think the canister stove would be worse. It's basically a torch. You could probably weld with it. Obviously, neither scenario would be good. But which is the lesser of two evils?

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re :"Canister Stove Hazard?" on 08/30/2013 22:20:44 MDT Print View

"But which is the lesser of two evils?"

Time for an experiment!

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re :"Canister Stove Hazard?" on 08/30/2013 22:38:16 MDT Print View

Jerry, you better don some cuben fiber/Nomex gloves.

--B.G.--

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re :"Canister Stove Hazard?" on 08/30/2013 22:50:01 MDT Print View

I didn't say I was going to do the experiment.

I'm trying to stimulate someone else to do it : )

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: Re :"Canister Stove Hazard?" on 08/30/2013 23:27:52 MDT Print View

>"It's basically a torch. You could probably weld with it. "

Er, no.

But you can solder or braze with it.

How I know that involves a dirt road in Mexico, a low oil pan, and a strong desire to get home.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Canister Stove Hazard? on 08/31/2013 07:06:07 MDT Print View

Time for a trip to the river bar with a stove and a camera,

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Canister Stove Hazard? on 08/31/2013 08:10:46 MDT Print View

"Time for a trip to the river bar with a stove and a camera"

That's what I'm talking about, great idea Ken, I want to see the results

Actually, you could hold it in your hand. Quickly turn it sideways and see what happens. If you don't like what's happening, turn it back to normal position.

It's not like it'll immediately explode in your hand. If it behaved like that, then there would be occasional explosions reported.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Tested, five stoves on 08/31/2013 09:16:06 MDT Print View

MSR Micro Rocket, flairs up, flame thrower pattern (straight out), high, med, simmer mode. Burner head shape causes this?
Snow Peak Giga Power GS-100, flairs up, low, flat (spreading) pattern at all speeds. Singed hair on my hand during this test.
Coleman Exponent F1, flares at high, med setting, puffs at a simmer. Highest btu of stoves tested.
MSR Super Fly, flares out badly in all modes, the most dangerous of the test, maybe due to its large burner head.
MSR Rapidfire, remote canister stove, no change in inverted mode, has the generator, basically a Whisperlite with the fuel line for canister fuel. Safest stove tested.

Fuel used was a barely used SP Giga Power canister at mid 50F temp, tested inside at 60F. Stoves were allowed to simmer for a minute before testing. Have fun bping.
Duane

Edited by hikerduane on 08/31/2013 09:22:59 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Tested, five stoves on 08/31/2013 09:27:14 MDT Print View

Great! Thanks!

What was your test? Light stove normally, then turn sideways?

How long was it sideways?

Did you then grab stove and turn it right side up?

If you were using stove in real world and it accidentally got knocked over, would it be easy to just grab it and turn it right side up again?

Do you think it could start a wild fire?

Do you think there's any chance it would explode?

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Tested, five stoves on 08/31/2013 09:42:36 MDT Print View

Jerry, I don't see how they can explode. I've had white gas stoves have their fuel boiling and they vented as they were designed to do via the SRV (safety relief valve), causing a small flame at that location. You would need to make sure the stove is securely screwed onto the canister. If the canister was punctured, that would be another issue.
After warming up a minute, I only inverted the stoves long enough to get the desired effect, a test for flare ups. I think if a stove is tipped over, you could grab the end of the canister and right the stove, being careful of the flames location. I think more care around a stove is more important, going by the Forest Service guidelines of clearing a space around the stoves use area, then it would be less of an issue starting a fire.
I should correct my statement regarding the Coleman F1 having the highest btu, just going by the small, canister type stoves, the Super Fly and Rapidfire with their larger burner heads may have more.
Duane

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Tested, five stoves on 08/31/2013 10:10:19 MDT Print View

Thanks!

Sounds like tipping over an upright canister stove is a non issue

Although you should always keep an eye on it and prepare to turn it off or whatever

I have a Coleman F1. It started leaking fuel around the stove to canister connection. Starts flaming up so you have to quickly blow it out and tighten it. And when it got cold, the metal contracted so it started leaking so it would be empty in the morning.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: Tested, five stoves on 08/31/2013 11:47:34 MDT Print View

Duane: Thanks for doing the experiment and posting the results.

"Singed hair on my hand during this test."

That's how you know you're doing real science!

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Tested, five stoves on 08/31/2013 12:55:16 MDT Print View

"Singed hair on my hand during this test."

That's how you know you're doing real science!

No - singed eyebrows : )