Forum Index » Chaff » Ask an Anarchist


Display Avatars Sort By:
Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Capitalization and Cougar on 08/29/2013 18:37:38 MDT Print View

I like wealthy cougars, would be quite the business in a free market. Too bad I"m married.

spelt the enigmatic
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
stimulating, no! on 08/29/2013 18:38:22 MDT Print View

I see no possibility for productive conversation here. As I said earlier I have sympathies to the philosophy so this is not a conversation I am averse to, nor ignorant on the subject for that matter, but this is the rant of an ideologue. Statist, statist, inane comparisons, ignorance of history, wilfull disregard of everything we know of human social behavior. OP makes anarchists look crazy.

Ian Van Halen
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
What the heck I'll bite on 08/29/2013 18:42:40 MDT Print View

I have to be honest. I've tried reading what you have to say. I really really tried but I just can't do it.

I did read some.

So riddle me this.

Theoretically the U.S. has adopted your anarchy system. The date is August 29, 1949. What do you think our chances would have been when the Soviets came knocking to impose their political system on us?

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Water on 08/29/2013 18:46:04 MDT Print View

I was more asking about how would poor people even get any, if someone just bought the source and the land?

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: stimulating, no! on 08/29/2013 18:49:42 MDT Print View

Must be somewhat because you are still engaging. I am not asking that you don't by the way.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: What the heck I'll bite on 08/29/2013 18:54:43 MDT Print View

"Theoretically the U.S. has adopted your anarchy system. The date is August 29, 1949. What do you think our chances would have been when the Soviets came knocking to impose their political system on us?"



I know this was not meant for me...but I don't think it is feasible for any single country to just adopt this "anarchy system". If nothing else I see this thread as a push to look beyond some of the ideas that we think are just set in stone.
I am not hoping for a rogue society; I do think that maybe some day we could reconsider nationalism, borders and all that we have built to defend that.

spelt the enigmatic
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: stimulating, no! on 08/29/2013 18:58:00 MDT Print View

Oh I have been following it all day. Trainwrecks are hard to look away from. Given what I could be saying I think my level of restraint has been admirable.

Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
Re: stimulating, no! on 08/29/2013 19:01:00 MDT Print View

So by your own logic, humans are bad and unfit to be free, so if they can't handle freedom how could they possibly handle dominating others through a state? If humans are good we dont need a state, if humans are bad we cannot have one becaus the bad humans will simply seek power and dominate us all as is the case almost everywhere on this planet.

Edited by isaac.mouser on 08/29/2013 19:06:54 MDT.

Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
Re: What the heck I'll bite on 08/29/2013 19:02:16 MDT Print View

Anarchy is NOT a system and it is definitely not my system, it is the absence of systems-that is the point. If the soviets came to impose their system on us they would meet their end, here are too many guns here.

Edited by isaac.mouser on 08/29/2013 19:03:21 MDT.

Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
Re: Re: Water on 08/29/2013 19:05:29 MDT Print View

There are millions of water sources, not to mention the sky. The poor would get water the same way thymes do now, from charity, from local sources and from businesses who make a profit by bringing into thm: think how much more charitable people could be if they were 2-3 times as rich as they are now.

spelt the enigmatic
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: stimulating, no! on 08/29/2013 19:05:32 MDT Print View

I haven't said enough in this thread for you to know my thoughts, much less the logic by which I came to them. I'll go back to lurking now.

Ian Van Halen
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: What the heck I'll bite on 08/29/2013 19:06:16 MDT Print View

"I am not hoping for a rogue society; I do think that maybe someday we could reconsider nationalism, borders and all that we have built to defend that."

I think that would be ideal but problematic with Mexico. I could live in Canada or the U.S. with equal contentment.

The US' government has big problems. There's no denying that. As bad is it is up here it's a million times worse in Mexico. Like Nigeria and Venezuela, there is a negative relationship between human & natural resources and their quality of life. There is no reason for Mexico to not have a thriving middle class except for the government which has betrayed its people time and time again.

Please do not try to use that as an example of why anarchy should be implemented here. There is no way you can travel the world, especially in Latin American and most of Asia, where you can come back and bellyache about our lifestyle. Just ry having this discussion (or whatever this is) on the internet in China.

People on this thread may not like cops but at least here in the U.S. we’re not afraid to put the police in jail. Good luck with that south of the border.

Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
Parasites on 08/29/2013 19:14:33 MDT Print View

The reason things are so much better here(or were) because we had a period early in our history where there was mostly economic freedom. The problem is the more freedom you have, the more prosperity, the more prosperity the more th parasite political class drains off the producers. The state has become so large here that it is cosumig something like 40-50% of the economy. When that happens things will never get better, the parasite is draining the producer. Government produces nothing, it only takes.

Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
Quote on 08/29/2013 19:18:04 MDT Print View

I took this "wilfull disregard of everything we know of human social behavior" as implying that we need government becaus people are bad, since that was the drift of most of th statists here.

I called people statists because they are statists, if you believe in the state that makes you a statist, simple.

You said i am wrong about human behavior, please expla that. Otherwise your just making statements.

Ian Van Halen
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: What the heck I'll bite on 08/29/2013 19:19:27 MDT Print View

"Anarchy is NOT a system and it is definitely not my system, it is the absence of systems-that is the point. If the soviets came to impose their system on us they would meet their end, here are too many guns here."

Guns don't work all that great against T-54s. So I'm guessing that we'd collectively have to agree without being forced to agree that we'll need to build some tanks and fighters to defend ourselves from the T-54s, bombers, etc. How would we accomplish this with our newly adopted non system of non-government?

Yes the Molotov cocktail enjoyed some success in 1956 Hungary. Yes the Soviets were victorious. Yes even though the Soviets disrupted the revolution the uprising served as a prologue to the demise of the Soviets. Let’s go ahead and acknowledge all that.

How would non system anarchy survive in those conditions?

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Water on 08/29/2013 19:25:02 MDT Print View

So say that society would be better off in your scenario, say that with time we could get there .The transitional period in the kind of shift that you would like to see would be very problematic, in my opinion. It could take a long time !! and the loss of many, many lives. I just cannot picture how it would not have to get extreme and violent before it could settle again. Would it be worth what many generations of people would go through, if after that, in the future things would be much better?

Edited because my writing is convoluted!

Edited by Kat_P on 08/29/2013 19:26:31 MDT.

Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
Anarchist survival on 08/29/2013 19:27:12 MDT Print View

In that case I'm certain private defense agencies would Join with citizens in a cause that is mutually beneficial to both and shoot th planes down with missiles.

You are creating a scenario that fits exactly what you want to happen. That is called begging the question. I don't need to have all the answers because I am not the anarchist central planner, those don't exist in anarchy. There may be leaders in communities and organizations, but thy don't have monopolies orleans violence. If there is a demand for defense against statist aggressors, the marke will meet that need.

Notice that all the weapons you named were creations of collectivist statist, for there is practically no need for an individual to have such weapons. Only statist who aggress against others would have duh reds for such weapons as nukes and bombers. For only in collectivizing an entire nation would you have the need to bomb such. It's always one nation vs another, note that joe smith need had a beef with German Hans vogelschmidt, no it was American vs nazi(collectivism).

Edited by isaac.mouser on 08/29/2013 19:31:17 MDT.

Ian Van Halen
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Parasites on 08/29/2013 19:43:27 MDT Print View

"The reason things are so much better here(or were) because we had a period early in our history where there was mostly economic freedom. The problem is the more freedom you have, the more prosperity, the more prosperity the more th parasite political class drains off the producers."

Things were better for who? I'm not sure what historical period you're talking about.

Are we talking about the industrial revolution when factory workers were treated worse than animals worldwide and literal slavery was still legal in the U.S.?

Turn of the century? The U.S. was hardly an economic superpower then, middle class was decades away from reality, and the very large majority of urban America fell into the “have not” category.

Post WWI Roaring '20s perhaps which set the stage for the '30s and great depression?

Post WWII? I'll give you that until we whored our production capabilities overseas.
Edit Actually I won't give that to you since the GI bill and other publicly provided benefits help build the middle class.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 08/29/2013 19:45:04 MDT.

Ike Mouser
(isaac.mouser) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Water on 08/29/2013 19:44:26 MDT Print View

The state has already killed hundreds of millions, maybe billions of humans. The state is the true enemy of mankind, it will destroy us if we do not evolve beyond it. States have nukes now, what will it be next? Black hole generators or anti matter devices? If we dont reject statism, the initiation of force and embrace liberty, I think we have no future.

It's true that it will be hard to transition to a free society, and many will suffer in the short term, but many more will suffer in the long term from the effects of statism. What is happening with Detroit where private companies are taking over where the government has failed-and it naturally will since socialism is doomed to failure-is good. I think the gradual replacement of government with private competitive services will be the way to go. Reduce the demand for a state by out competing them to where people can actually begin to see that volluntary human action can provide everything they think they need a state for. Already this is happening in Detroit.

Ian Van Halen
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Anarchist survival on 08/29/2013 19:51:50 MDT Print View

"You are creating a scenario that fits exactly what you want to happen. That is called begging the question."

That makes no sense. Why on earth would I want that to happen? Don't get me wrong, I loved the original Red Dawn and would love nothing more than to shoot an RPG while screaming "Wolverines" at an invading commie but seriously, why would anyone want that to happen?

I study history. I see that it is cyclical. I understand that to predict the future I need to look to the past. I see nothing in history which would argue that your theories have a snowballs chance of working in the real world.