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Looking for Ti cup/pot recommendation
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Vikram K
(gothamist) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Looking for Ti cup/pot recommendation on 08/25/2013 15:31:12 MDT Print View

I'm looking for a double-walled titanium cup that will let me store a 100g fuel canister inside of it. Does anyone know of a good one? It seems like (from Internet spec hunting) all of the 450 or 600ml double wall options won't work. I'll consider a single wall option if I have to, but but am hoping to go with a double wall as I do a lot of snow camping.

My buddy and I usually go out together and we each carry plate/bowl plus a Jetboil Ti. Not the most ultralight option but it works well for us, as the Jetboil stays clean and we can sequence morning oatmeal/coffee independently.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
re: Looking for Ti cup/pot reco on 08/25/2013 15:43:55 MDT Print View

I assume that this is for a second 110 gm canister, is that right? The Jetboil Sol Ti will hold the first one, of course. My setup is different than yours, but I've found that a 110 gm canister fits into the top of my Snow Peak 600 pot (single wall) perfectly when inverted. My SP Giga stove nests in the bottom of the pot, the canister is placed, and the Four Dog lid fits upside down on top, with the handle facing the recess of the bottom of the fuel canister. Everything fits perfectly into one of my orphan Snow Peak mesh drawstring bags. I guess what you'd need is some sort of insulating cozy for the 600 pot.

Edited by Zia-Grill-Guy on 08/25/2013 15:45:00 MDT.

Vikram K
(gothamist) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Yes, for a second 100g canister on 08/25/2013 16:02:41 MDT Print View

Thanks for the advice.

If I end up going single wall on that caught my eye is the Ruta Locura 550ml pot, which seems like it should be small enough to be a viable mug while also holding a canister. On the longer trips we do I usually carry a second 100g canister, and my current cup won't accept the canister, so the pack volume is larger than it really needs to be.

Appreciate the insight...I'm still curious to see if there is a double wall option for me...up at ~10K elevation in the winter there is a very short duration when my hot water is at a nice temperature, so I'm hoping to extend the sweet spot for drinking coffee if at all possible.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Looking for Ti cup/pot recommendation on 08/25/2013 16:06:23 MDT Print View

This puzzles me. I don't understand why you want such a cup - apart from the wow factor.

You can't heat stuff in a double wall cup, but you can burn your lips. A lighter Lexan cup would probably keep your food warmer, and would not burn your lips.

And you do not need to store a canister in any container - just keep the plastic cap on it in your pack.

What am I missing?

Cheers

Edited by rcaffin on 08/25/2013 16:07:07 MDT.

Vikram K
(gothamist) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
...because? on 08/25/2013 16:10:26 MDT Print View

I want such a cup mainly because I'm trying to reduce volume.

I don't need it to heat water, that is what the Jetboil cup is used for. Right now I carry a 2.1 oz plastic cup, which works okay, but is too narrow for the extra 110g canister, so it seems volumetrically inefficient.

Obviously we are in the land of "wants" versus "needs" but why not...

[Edit] I am actually curious if anyone has compared the relative insulation of plastic/Lexan cups versus double wall Ti...my hope (and reason for pursuing this avenue) is that the double wall Ti will insulate significantly better than the plastic REI Chefware cup I currently use...which gives me all of about 3 minutes of a reasonably drinkable period when used in cold weather.)

Edited by gothamist on 08/25/2013 16:12:36 MDT.

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
"What am I missing?" on 08/25/2013 16:26:47 MDT Print View

Roger, you're missing the joy of having your coffee remain plenty warm in your double wall Snow Peak 450 mug (with lid) for up to 45 minutes (20-30 minutes in winter).

But a 110 gm canister with cap will also fit nicely in a 550 cup.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: ...because? on 08/25/2013 17:18:31 MDT Print View

polycarbonate (Lexan) 0.2 W/mK

air 0.03 W/mK

if the double wall Ti is the same thickness as Lexan, it would be much warmer

but there's conductivity at the top where ther isn't air. And that's where you put your lips

plastic - leaches bad ass chemicals when it gets hot. Even if they say it's "BPA free", there's probably other stuff.

I like having a seperate cup to drink out of. Definitely a luxury. 2 ounces might be small enough? Currently, I just drink out of my 900 ml cooking pot. And I don't like spending $30 or $40 for a cup.

John Coyle
(Bigsac)

Locale: NorCal
Looking for Ti cup/pot recommendation on 08/25/2013 21:42:30 MDT Print View

According to Wikipedia, plastics with the identification code 2,4, and 5 "are believed not to leach chemicals in any significant amount." Plastic type 5, or polypropylene, is the most common material used in the type of backpacking cups at REI, for example, and it considered one of the safest plastics..

Lexan is a type 7 polycarbonate and according to wiki, "some type 7 plastics, such as polycarbonate plastic and epoxy resins, are made from BPA monomer. When such plastics are exposed to hot liquids, BPA leaches out 55 times faster than it does under normal conditions at up to 32 ng/hr."

You won't catch me drinking out of Lexan anytime soon, and I am suspicious of all plastics to be honest. Alzheimer's runs in my family and my sister refuses to drink out of aluminum containers because it has been reported that aluminum is a contributing factor for Alzheimer's, although some studies indicate this is not so. Not sure if that applies to anodized aluminum.

So I would say that titanium seems like a pretty safe material from a health point of view. I prefer to dance on this earth in good health as long as I can and so far I have been lucky.

Robert Kelly
(QiWiz) - MLife

Locale: UL gear @ QiWiz.net
more options on 08/27/2013 15:00:40 MDT Print View

If you can't find the double wall, get a single wall 700-750 cc like Stoic, Toaks, or Snowpeak; add Snowpeak Hot Lips and a Reflectix or CCF cozy and you can drink your hot drink with unburned lips over a long period of time.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Looking for Ti cup/pot recommendation on 08/27/2013 15:53:58 MDT Print View

Hi John

> Alzheimer's runs in my family
In which case it is probably genetic, and nothing to do with any chemicals.

> and my sister refuses to drink out of aluminum containers because it has been
> reported that aluminum is a contributing factor for Alzheimer's, although some
> studies indicate this is not so.
Oh yeah, that's a well-debunked urban myth. Read about it on Snopes.
I find the way urban myths spread rather fascinating: people immediately believe them with zero scientific evidence, but completely ignore years of scientific evidence that smoking causes lung cancer (for example). Fascinating.

Cheers

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: ...because? on 08/27/2013 15:55:47 MDT Print View

Hi Vikram

> too narrow for the extra 110g canister, so it seems volumetrically inefficient.
So stick something else inside the cup!!!! Dead easy!
Anyhow, weight is far more important than volume.

Cheers

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: "What am I missing?" on 08/27/2013 15:59:54 MDT Print View

Hi Gary

> missing the joy of having your coffee remain plenty warm in your double wall
> Snow Peak 450 mug (with lid) for up to 45 minutes (20-30 minutes in winter).

I guess so, but then my coffee never lasts that long before it gets drunk. Cofffeeeee....

Mind you, if I stick a lid on my plastic cup, my coffee stays hot just as long, and that is usually too hot to drink anyhow. Hey, it was made with boiling water, and I can't drink that!

Cheers

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Looking for Ti cup/pot recommendation on 08/27/2013 16:07:10 MDT Print View

Good Grief!

I have a recycled food container. I think dried dates came in it, and there is a volume around 16 fluid ounces. It is made of clear #5 plastic. The weight is slightly under 0.6 ounce.

In the summer when it is cool and I want my hot tea hot, then I use one of these containers as a bowl or mug or as a small butane canister holder. In the winter and I want my hot tea hot, I use two of these. That is, one inside the other. Or, if I have some special meal, I can separate them and I have two.

End of problem.

--B.G.--

Chad Poindexter
(Stick) - F

Locale: Wet & Humid Southeast....
Re: more options on 08/27/2013 16:16:36 MDT Print View

I agree with Rob. I use a set of Hot Lips and a DIY reflectix cozy with my LiteTrail 550 cook pot and love it! Awesome set up, and only 4 oz for everything (LiteTrail solid fuel cook kit, reflectix cozy, Hot Lips, Mini Bic, lightload towel, piece of scrubbie, plastic bag for Esbit tabs, and long handle spoon). Its easy to use and of course is my cook pot & drinking mug.

Vikram K
(gothamist) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
All good advice on 08/27/2013 17:36:24 MDT Print View

How well do those coozies work in snow? Honestly that is my biggest problem, at 12K+ feet in the winter, the boiling point of water is basically drinkable (I guess I like very hot beverages), and if I set the cup down in the snow it's cold within 2 minutes. I suspect they help with the radiant loss to the sides, but not the bottom? (I've never seen a coozie that covered the bottom.)

I can get the coffee to stay in the sweet spot for up to about 5 minutes if I drink directly out of the Jetboil, which has that thin coozie on the sides + the lid, so I'm not sure which factor is more important to incorporate...the lid or the air gap of the double wall from the cold below. (Ideally I'd like both.)

Anyway, I appreciate the input, even if some people think I'm belaboring the point--we all have different ways of doing this. I don't actually have much that I carry that's loose in the pack that can fit in a cup...I think all of the miscellaneous stuff I carry gets crammed into the bear canister...and I'm not sure I want to cram my long underwear or socks into my cup! Maybe my headlamp though...

If I can't find one I may go for a 550ml ti cup/pot with lid and see how that fares.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: All good advice on 08/27/2013 17:54:47 MDT Print View

Generally if you use any sort of stove on snow, you set it on top of a thin sheet of some rigid material such as Masonite or plywood. Once your water has boiled and you turn the stove off, you can set your mug of hot tea on that sheet so that it is not on the snow.

--B.G.--

Vikram K
(gothamist) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
cool! on 08/27/2013 20:30:34 MDT Print View

That's a good idea...I must confess it hadn't occurred to me. I bet that would help!

S Long
(Izeloz) - M

Locale: Wasatch
Re: Looking for Ti cup/pot recommendation on 08/27/2013 20:37:19 MDT Print View

I use a GSI Fairshare mug and a cozy from 40below for winter mountaineering. Works well.

G H
(NotLight) - F

Locale: Midwest
You don't need a double wall mug on 08/27/2013 22:49:36 MDT Print View

I've done the same tests in the link below and basically got the identical results, you NEED a lid but you don't really need a cozy or double walls on a mug. And what you especially don't need is a fancy double wall Ti mug sold with no lid. (There's a nice graph if you hunt around on the page in the link.)

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=20926&skip_to_post=167909#167909

I really love my Evernew Titanium ECA278 (and not it's snowpeak cousin). It has two functional single wall Ti mugs that stack (good luck finding mugs that stack). The tall mug has a lid, and you can make a lid for the small one from a raisin can. It fits two 110g gas cartridges. I also have the shorter Evernew ECA-401 that also nests with the short cup that comes with the ECA278 but packs a bit smaller. I think it would work perfect for two people in combination with a jet boil. I use mine with a cartridge stove and sometimes an alcohol stove and boil in the large mug directly and then split the water into the smaller mug. No jetboil needed.

Your friends would probably be just as impressed as mine when you show off this set. Although secretly, I still use my 12 year old REI plastic gas-station style mug just as often, but only when no one's looking.

E.L. Boston
(El_Jefe) - F

Locale: The Pacific Northwest
. on 08/28/2013 01:08:14 MDT Print View

Hey, guys? No disrespect intended, but could we please maybe not get into the "Plastics are bad!," "No they're not!" argument every time somebody mentions using plastics for their food containers? If somebody wants to avoid plastics because they're concerned about leachates, maybe we could just leave it at that, then get back to the topic at hand?