Forum Index » General Lightweight Backpacking Discussion » Bear learns how to crack Garcia cans at Yosemite


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Dean L
(AldoLeopold) - F

Locale: Great Lakes
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: "Bear learns how to crack Garcia cans at Yosemite" on 08/27/2013 14:01:59 MDT Print View

Jerry-I thought this was a discussion about bears getting into containers? I didn'tquestion you or anyone else about the ethics of eating animals.

Edited by AldoLeopold on 08/27/2013 14:04:02 MDT.

Dean L
(AldoLeopold) - F

Locale: Great Lakes
Re: Re: "Bear learns how to crack Garcia cans at Yosemite" on 08/27/2013 14:10:37 MDT Print View

Greg-so far one bear pushed a container over a drop off, no deaths or injuries. I think calls for it to be put down are premature.

Hypothetical question? Why don't we kill all the bears right away, so there would be no chance any bears will ever pick up this behavior?

Dean L
(AldoLeopold) - F

Locale: Great Lakes
Re: Re: "Bear learns how to crack Garcia cans at Yosemite" on 08/27/2013 14:30:18 MDT Print View

Ken-What may have happened 75+ years ago really doesn't matter. Then all nearly all predators were shot on site. I would like to think that humans have advanced since then to deal with these sort of problems without resorting to such methods.

As for now,technology should be able to devise an better canister: kevlar, carbon fiber, improved cross linked polymers, that would survive drops.

A question, can bear canisters also be suspended or is that a violation of regs in NP and forests?

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
"Oh Nooooo! Mr. Bill" on 08/27/2013 14:35:42 MDT Print View

RATS! That's exactly the bear can I own.

(Do you think that is a good excuse to buy a new bear can? ;o)

"Gee Honey, a bear at Yosemiter learned how to open this bear can and he's teaching all his friends how to do it."

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
Multiple events on 08/27/2013 14:42:21 MDT Print View

Dean, the word I got was the bear has done this repeatedly. Thus the Park hiring someone to target that particular bear. They wouldn't do that for a single incident.

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Hanging bear canisters on 08/27/2013 14:48:33 MDT Print View

"A question, can bear canisters also be suspended or is that a violation of regs in NP and forests?"

Dean, I haven't heard that you can't hang your bear canister. Certainly not in Glacier or Yellowstone, where nearly all campsites have a bear pole. I once asked a head ranger at Rocky Mountain NP why they don't provide bear poles, so that we don't have to carry a canister. The reply was that creating bear poles harms trees. Given that logic, maybe they would frown upon someone that found a way to hang a bear canister from a tree limb. Who knows how the various bureaucrats are apt to think?

Edited by Zia-Grill-Guy on 08/27/2013 14:49:33 MDT.

Dean L
(AldoLeopold) - F

Locale: Great Lakes
Re: Marmots on 08/27/2013 14:50:42 MDT Print View

Eric-I'm going to start shooting all those songbirds that get me up before the dawn, noisy little buggers. And those squirrels that keep burying nuts in my yard. I had to have the turf doctor out 3 times last month to fix the grass! ;)

Paul McLaughlin
(paul) - MLife
Re: Hanging bear canisters on 08/27/2013 15:49:49 MDT Print View

My understanding is that hanging a bear can is not recommended because if the can is restrained the bear may be able to work on it long enough to get into it, or be able to crush it against the tree trunk. The cans are sized so that a bear cannot get its jaws around the can to either carry it or crush it (which is why you can't have a really small bear can). Bears can't carry a can, so their only means of moving it is to push it or roll it along the ground. Standard recommendations are also not to place your can where a bear could start it rolling away. I like to put mine in bushes when I can - it can't be rolled out of there.

John Coyle
(Bigsac)

Locale: NorCal
Electrified Bear Canister on 08/27/2013 20:40:53 MDT Print View

Well there is always the electrified bear canister. I have been looking at this thing for a while, and waiting for positive reviews. Of course, it would have to be approved for use in troublesome areas. The achilles heel is the battery. What if the battery goes dead or shorts out? Interesting concept though.

http://www.rutalocura.com/palisade.html

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: "Bear learns how to crack Garcia cans at Yosemite" on 08/27/2013 20:53:57 MDT Print View

"Ken-What may have happened 75+ years ago really doesn't matter. Then all nearly all predators were shot on site."

Exactly my point. Then the bears were afraid of us. Now in the parks we don't shoot them and have become a curiosity to them that brings food along.

We have changed and now give positive reinforcement too often. The bears are just being bears.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Re: Hanging bear canisters on 08/28/2013 06:17:29 MDT Print View

You shouldn't hang a bear canister because since the bears know how to defeat a hang, the canister drops and -ta da- might be compromised just as if it was pushed from the ledge.

We actually chatted with the bear ranger in Yosemite about that bear at the start of our trip. He told us the bear was actually maneuvering the canisters TO the cliffs, sometimes rather large distances actually..the people were not putting them near cliffs...then pushing them off. He said it happened numerous times and warned us to wedge our canisters between rocks and not just place them on the ground as you are normally supposed to do.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Hanging bear canisters on 08/28/2013 06:46:07 MDT Print View

Maybe a canister needs to be shaped like a football or egg, so it is difficult to push. We may need to move away from shapes or sizes that suit bpers and move toward what is more resistant to bears/grizz.
Sorry, if one bear gets to be an issue, it may need to be put down if a better solution is not found.
Duane

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
Bear learns how to crack Garcia cans at Yosemite on 08/28/2013 07:58:15 MDT Print View

Backpackers unwilling to protect their food is the problem. Can we put them down ?

Removing the bear doesn't help. The bear is a symptom of backpackers being unwilling to protect their camp.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Bear learns how to crack Garcia cans at Yosemite on 08/28/2013 09:00:06 MDT Print View

Yep, I agree there too. I place my canister close enough that I can hear if something is after it. I'm in the camp that believes the canister is a temporary fix to go get your food/chase bear/critter off. More issues with deer slobber.
Duane
PS, maybe we need to place some dummy canisters out, so the bear is not rewarded.

Edited by hikerduane on 08/28/2013 09:01:31 MDT.

d k
(dkramalc) - MLife
Re: Bear learns how to crack Garcia cans at Yosemite on 08/28/2013 09:05:46 MDT Print View

Agreed that some will stay in their tents and not attempt to chase bears away. But some bears are not easily chased away, and persist in their business of trying to get the food despite yelling, banging, etc. What then? They are smart, and presumably some eventually learn that despite the noise, humans are no more than a nuisance in these situations.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
re: Re: Bear learns how to crack Garcia cans at Yosemite on 08/28/2013 10:19:50 MDT Print View

"But some bears are not easily chased away, and persist in their business of trying to get the food despite yelling, banging, etc. What then? They are smart, and presumably some eventually learn that despite the noise, humans are no more than a nuisance in these situations."

Use bear spray - negative conditioning.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Re: Bear learns how to crack Garcia cans at Yosemite on 08/28/2013 11:11:18 MDT Print View

And lets remember that canisters are marketed as bear resistant.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Bear learns how to crack Garcia cans at Yosemite on 08/28/2013 11:20:37 MDT Print View

Ken, that's why I would attempt to scare a bear off. Good reminder to us, resistant.
Duane

Elizabeth Tracy
(mariposa) - M

Locale: Outside
1999 on 09/05/2013 17:47:01 MDT Print View

When I did the JMT in 1999, a bear used exactly this method - tossing off a cliff - to open a perfectly sealed Garcia used by another hiking party at Cathedral Lakes. We saw them - and the remains of their Garcia - at Tuolumne Meadows.

Rangers up and down the trail, not wanting to believe a Garcia could be breached by a bear, decided...Not to believe the story.

If it had been an Ursack breached, would they have believed it? A Bear Vault?

I don't know what to say re: What to do about the smart bears who figure this out. My personal response is generally not to hike in Yosemite, which does not have the most spectacular Sierras backpacking anyway.

- Elizabeth

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
Re Re Bear learns how to crack Garcia cans at Yosemite on 09/05/2013 18:07:21 MDT Print View

"Use bear spray - negative conditioning"

My understanding was bear spray is illegal in Yosemite and Kings Canyon National Parks.