Outside Mag calls an urban vancouver trail "most dangerous" top 10 hikes in the world
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Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - F

Locale: Southeast
Re: the list on 08/16/2013 18:55:04 MDT Print View

Not trying to pick on you Dave, but I think that stance is more of what is wrong with this country than illegal immigrants or being compassionate for those from another country. Two parties disagree on something so therefore we cannot be friends or be civil to one another? Everyone is entitled to an opinion and someone's opinion rarely makes them a bad person. There is too much of that on both sides of several issues now days, such as immigration and gay marriage rights. Love thy neighbor! I promise it is much less stressful if you do.

Ryan

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: the list on 08/16/2013 19:00:02 MDT Print View

only one?

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: the list on 08/16/2013 19:06:14 MDT Print View

I think you'll find me on the "criminals" list. Ken, you might be on there too.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: the list on 08/16/2013 19:12:10 MDT Print View

It's a fun crowd and good company. All the good stories.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: the list on 08/16/2013 19:34:30 MDT Print View

Agreeing to disagree on the existence of their humanity might not seem mutually beneficial to the dehumanized. I can't imagine why, though.

Edited by spelt on 08/16/2013 19:35:35 MDT.

Backpack Jack
(jumpbackjack) - F - M

Locale: Armpit of California
RE Dangeruos on 08/16/2013 19:59:36 MDT Print View

That's not dangeruos, but this looks like fun, just make sure you bring your harness and camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yC21LTZHuM

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dangerous hikes on 08/16/2013 20:04:30 MDT Print View

"Nothing learned from history."

You can't learn from it if you don't study it.

Chris .
(cwb) - F

Locale: Los Angeles
love thy neighbor? on 08/16/2013 20:14:01 MDT Print View

I love my neighbor. But I expect my neighbor to live by the same laws I do. When he decides not to do that, he needs to be corrected. It's not dehumanization, it's honor and uprightness.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Dangerous hikes on 08/16/2013 20:18:02 MDT Print View

"It's happened to every continent and country on this earth, boohoo, cry me a river."

Expressed as only one who has never been on the receiving end, could express it. Soon enough, on a historical time scale, our turn will come. And then we'll finally have enough history under our belts to understand what this kind of tragedy means. Seems like it always has to be that way. I don't fault you, Nick. We're all products of our historical experience, and we Americans just don't have enough of it yet to have acquired that kind of perspective. He!!, it took the Europeans a couple millennia of butchering each other to finally get it thru their heads. Why should we be any different? Oh, I keep forgetting. We're exceptional. Maybe that means it'll only take us 1 millennium?


Edited for spelling

Edited by ouzel on 08/16/2013 20:23:32 MDT.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: the list on 08/16/2013 20:21:00 MDT Print View

" Love thy neighbor! I promise it is much less stressful if you do."

Does that include illegal immigrants?

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: love thy neighbor? on 08/16/2013 20:42:45 MDT Print View

"I love my neighbor. But I expect my neighbor to live by the same laws I do. When he decides not to do that, he needs to be corrected. It's not dehumanization, it's honor and uprightness."


During the civil rights movement there were many honorable and upright citizens and neighbors that made sure those criminals were indeed "corrected".

If a law is morally wrong you abide by it?

Nick Larsen
(stingray4540) - F

Locale: South Bay
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dangerous hikes on 08/16/2013 20:43:26 MDT Print View

"I love my neighbor. But I expect my neighbor to live by the same laws I do. When he decides not to do that, he needs to be corrected. It's not dehumanization, it's honor and uprightness."

Exactly. That's all I've been trying to say.

"Expressed as only one who has never been on the receiving end, could express it. Soon enough, on a historical time scale, our turn will come. "

No, spoken as someone who has accepted your second sentence as the inevitable. I would be very much surprised if the USA are still THE super power when I die. Who knows, maybe I'll die in the transition? Or my daughter, or her children.

We're not exceptional, and I think that will be proven in time.

"If a law is morally wrong you abide by it?"

It's morally wrong to require someone to go through do process before moving to our country? Even Mexico requires the same. As does almost every other country. Where are you getting these "morals"?

"Does that include illegal immigrants?"

Yes, but just because you love someone, doesn't mean you don't discipline them. Or are you one of those people that don't believe in disciplining their child for fear of "breaking their spirit"?

Edited by stingray4540 on 08/16/2013 20:55:53 MDT.

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
do not hike. on 08/16/2013 21:48:36 MDT Print View

yo ryan..

i guess.. errrrr...

yes, it's an exclusive list.

perhaps i'm short sighted.

if folks don't want tax dollars spent (even, perhaps, to volunteers, who use the episode as training to rescue fully-deserving Actual Citizens, and might even do it out of some, likely misguided, sense of common humanity) to rescue badly injured women along the border backcountry solely because they are illegal, i'm pretty sure i don't want to spend time with that person hiking in my free time.

perhaps my compassion bar is set at "you must be at least THIS compassionate (and not crappy)" to hike with me.

perhaps i'm missing out on a "teachable moment" and it will be at my loss.

somehow i doubt it.

and i think i'm fine with that.




p.s. i'mma gonna do that them there do process.

Edited by DaveT on 08/16/2013 22:27:53 MDT.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Dangerous hikes on 08/16/2013 22:01:11 MDT Print View

""If a law is morally wrong you abide by it?"

It's morally wrong to require someone to go through do process before moving to our country? Even Mexico requires the same. As does almost every other country. Where are you getting these "morals"?"




We've been talking beyond just the immigration issue. ( remember, the likes of me speeding up how fast this country is going downhill?)
We've been talking about anyone that breaks a law being a criminal. Then we've talked about laws that to some are just wrong,

So, agreed on "do" process. While you do that "do" process, you could stop treating those that break that particular law as criminals. At least that is whatI am taking about.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: love thy neighbor? on 08/16/2013 22:01:55 MDT Print View

All I see is the injured human. Nothing else matters.



What's with bringing politics into this anyway Drusilla?

Desert Dweller
(Drusilla)

Locale: Wild Wild West
No politics on 08/16/2013 22:37:09 MDT Print View

Ok let's just set this thing straight...I'm not politically inclined cause it leaves a bad taste.....it just my opinion that you should know where your money goes, and I do not regret it one bit. I'm not a bleeding heart, I'm a rancher who lives on the border and I have many friends and some relatives from Mexico. Everyone has an opinion and you are entitled to it but please understand it is a very difficult issue to gain clarity on when you live elsewhere. This used to be a very beautiful, wild and untrammeled place, now we are over run with some very dangerous and sad elements. The woman is from Guatamala which is as economically poor as the poorest African country, she is a mother, has a family and saw no other choice but to try to get work here. And I'm not saying it was ok cause it's not, illegal is illegal. If anything you should hate the coyotes who steal their money, abandon them and tell them they are in Texas rather than the truth, that she was in fact in Arizona, and she thought she was near Houston! There's some very bad people taking advantage of desperate people who's own governments cannot support the populace. These are the facts that we hear from almost every illegal we find.
I had a LOT of compassion for the woman. My husband risked his life to run for help ( no phone service, he had to climb high for reception) in horrendous terrain while I stayed alone to tend her wounds, splint her legs and wash the blood off of her. She was laying on wet ground, and had only soaking wet blankets and clearly would have died. There was no way we could ever leave ANY person, illegal or not laying there to die. In fact the EMTs said she would have been dead the next morning from exposure and injury.
Compassion and kindness are never wasted. We have checked up on her, she is in a local hospital. She has had several surgeries and will be there for a few months and the will be processed like any other illegal. We even asked to visit her, after much discussion and debate, but she is a prisoner and can not recieve visitors. In fact the border patrol was very kind, understanding and in fact do more rescues than most people know. They told us they'd rather find them alive than dead cause there's enough of that here to gag even the most hardcore.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Never mind on 08/16/2013 22:46:07 MDT Print View

Why do I even bother..

Edited by Kat_P on 08/16/2013 23:25:12 MDT.

Nick Larsen
(stingray4540) - F

Locale: South Bay
Re: Never mind on 08/17/2013 00:04:41 MDT Print View

Lol, all that typing on a cell phone, and instead of offering intelligent debate, they pick on one single misspelling/mistype/autocorrect, and question your level of compassion.
I guess this is just a debate that can't be had on the interwebs. ;) Y'all
"Zis story has become tiresome."

P.S. surprised this hasn't gotten zapped to chaff.

Edited by stingray4540 on 08/17/2013 00:14:08 MDT.

William Chilton
(WilliamC3) - MLife

Locale: Antakya
Re: Never mind on 08/17/2013 00:26:13 MDT Print View

Kat, I, for one, regret that you decided to edit your post. As a non-American, I've been staying out of this debate, but I have lived most of my adult life outside my country of birth (never in the U.S.) and understand perfectly where you were coming from.
Words and names matter, and as well as reflecting our attitudes, I believe they can affect attitudes too.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Never mind on 08/17/2013 00:36:50 MDT Print View

Thanks William.