layering
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Joe Annese
(dirtbaghiker) - M
layering on 08/13/2013 17:15:01 MDT Print View

I'm trying to decide what layering would work best. October weather in NY or PA. I have patagonia silkweight capeline 1 baselayer. My dilemma is I also have a Marmot driclimb windshirt(lightweight jacket) or do I bring my Mountain Hardwear micro chill fleece jacket. Then I have a Patagonia down jacket or vest and lastly I have a Sierra Designs cloud rain shell. Like I said, I am torn between the Marmot windshirt or the MH fleece. Obviously the fleece is much heavier and bulkier, so I am kind of leaning to the windshirt..which to me looks like a windbreaker jacket..but weighs about 7 ounces or so. I guess depending on the actual weather when I leave, that will also decide on the vest or jacket. I think all in all my set up will cover me for whatever the weather throws at me, I just always brought my fleece in the past and I am thinking I can drop some weight by leaving it home and bringing the wind breaker and vest. Opinions anyone? I am always hot, even in winter..like a nuclear furnace..so do which layering set up would u recommend? What is your setup? Thanks for any input.

Link .
(annapurna) - MLife
Re: layering on 08/14/2013 08:54:36 MDT Print View

You might like to read these threads
The best clothing combinations for backpacking or hiking? and A New Paradigm for Understanding Garment Warmth .

Edited by annapurna on 08/14/2013 09:48:48 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: layering on 08/14/2013 09:20:57 MDT Print View

Are you talking about keeping warm while hiking?

If you need a WPB rain jacket (Sierra Designs Rain Shell?) then maybe just that and a base layer underneath is sufficient. If that's not enough then add a layer underneath, like fleece. Anything else is unnecesarily heavy.

When you stop hiking, add a high loft layer - down or synthetic. Much higher warmth for the weight. But you'll sweat if you're hiking.

Joe Annese
(dirtbaghiker) - M
keeping warm on 08/14/2013 09:38:05 MDT Print View

I'm talking about keeping comfortable while out for a 3 day hike. While hiking I am generally warm. I guess what I am really looking for is what you would choose to bring..a fleece or windshirt. Not particularly just for hiking..for the entire time..hiking, breaks, around camp, overnight, early mornings. If you had to choose betweeen the windjacket or fleece..which would you grab. I have my baselayers and rain protection..and if needed I could grab my down sweater or vest though I doubt they would be needed this time of year..but..windjacket or fleece?

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: keeping warm on 08/14/2013 09:47:19 MDT Print View

I wear base layer and WPB rain jacket while hiking. Jacket for warmth if it's not raining. Good down to 20 F or so, but that's pushing it. You say you're warm so that would probably work for you.

When I stop hiking, if I need warmth, I add synthetic or down vest.

Also fleece hat. Fingerless gloves. Long pants. Rarely add synthetic pants.

I never bring fleece or windshirt or anything because I stay warm enough while hiking in the conditions I'm in, and they are heavy for the warmth they provide.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: keeping warm AND dry on 08/14/2013 10:21:40 MDT Print View

For me, layering roughly works like this:

A base layer next to your skin than will wick perspiration on out to other layers and keep a warm dry layer of air next to your body. I tailor the base layer to the rough temperature I will be hiking in: silkweight for warm weather and slightly thicker versions as the temperature gets progressively colder. That would be something like Capilene 1 for Summer weather and Capilene 3 or light Dry Power long sleeve tees for cool to cold Fall and Winter temperatures.

If I am too cold while moving and there is wind and/or light rain, I add my windshirt

If it rains, I add a poncho or swap out the windshirt for a rain shell-- one with lots of venting options.

I usually carry a vest for Summer day hike insulation. I have a Power Stretch vest that I could actually wear as a quick add-on layer in the rare event that I needed more insulation while moving, or more likely while on a rest stop or camp. I can wear that while sleeping. I have a light polyfil vest (REI Revelcloud) that is the next step up.

For cooler weather, something like a fleece jacket or hoodie works for layering under windshirt or rain shell. That could be a Patagonia R1, Power Stretch or 200w fleece. Again, this is rest stop, camp and sleep stuff. I could see wearing a light fleece while going downhill in cool weather, but I would normally just add my windshirt.

Those 3 layers: base, mid-layer fleece, and wind/rain shell will take care of me for most 3-season hiking. Some like a light puffy rather than a fleece. I don't care for light puffies as they don't breathe and transfer moisture as well as fleece and they duplicate the wind shell layer. IMHO, you end up with two more windshirts (inner and outer layer) plus a thin layer of down or polyfil and might as well have a fleece/windshirt or fleece/rain shell combination.

For cold weather, it is time to add a puffy jacket. I would layer that with base layer and a light mid-layer. Definitely rest stop and camp use-- what climbers call a belay jacket, to be worn while stopped and belaying another climber.

If you tend to be cold, just ratchet the thicker layers up sooner. Where I might be comfortable in camp with my fleece/windshirt combo, another might need the puffy to be warm.

About your Marmot DriClime Windshirt: it can be a handy garment, but like the thin puffies, you have too many layers permanently married together, making it less versatile for the weight than using a light fleece and windshirt. With my windshirt, I can wear whatever base layer I want and add the windshirt to cut wind and light precip while moving. With the Marmot DriClime, you are always stuck with that thin inner layer and the 12oz-16oz weight. I don't like the open hem either-- I would prefer a drawstring or light elastic.

To answer your question, I would take the fleece and down vest and get a regular windshirt. I could see using the Marmot Driclime and a down vest. The question is what do you wear with your base layer while moving. The Marmot isn't impossible, but I would be too warm in it hiking with a load.

Richard May
(richardmay)

Locale: Costa Rica
windjacket on 08/14/2013 12:21:58 MDT Print View

for me, the windjacket. if I still need more warmth then the vest followed by the pull-over. fleece is too bulky to carry that long.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: fleece on 08/14/2013 13:59:05 MDT Print View

A fleece rocks for cool damp Autumn weather. Yeah, it's bulky and heavy but it breathes and is great for sleep. Wear one under a rain shell for rainy camping--- nothing works better.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
layer on 08/14/2013 14:37:31 MDT Print View

I love my fleece, but it is heavy and very bulky. I always liked putting it on when I stopped and started to get cold because I was sweat soaked.

Lately Ive been playing with using only 3 items, and Im wearing the synthetic baselayer.

Form fitting long sleeve synthetic baselayer (3.8 oz)
BPL cocoon synthetic hooded jacket (8.5 oz)
Driducks rainjacket (6.2 oz)

I have not found the need for anything else in this system yet from 30-90F

The only problem is, my raingear goes under my sleeping pad to prevent punctures, I sleep in the jacket, and I have nothing left to use for a pillow.

If the new breathable cuben/event breathes like its supposed to, Ill be getting a new rainjacket I think.

Edited by livingontheroad on 08/14/2013 14:38:28 MDT.

Richard May
(richardmay)

Locale: Costa Rica
Re: Re: fleece on 08/14/2013 14:37:35 MDT Print View

yep, i thought about it after posting... fleece dries faster than down too. I use it more than I like to admit.

Joe Annese
(dirtbaghiker) - M
houdini wind jacket on 08/14/2013 14:57:39 MDT Print View

So, the Marmot driclimb is a bit heavy and bulky..what do you think of the Patagonia houdini wind jacket? I think that, paired with patagonia cap 1 silkweight baselayer would work well..the down vest if needed..and cloud rain shell if raining. The houdini weighs 4 ounces..while the SD cloud rain shell is also 4 ounces. This would seem to be ideal base layers for me, while keeping the weight very low and comfort very hi. They also all pack incredously small. I could probably get away with leaving the down vest home unless the temps look to be really cold.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
stopping on 08/14/2013 15:12:11 MDT Print View

When I stop hiking, Im wet with sweat. It takes about 10 min for me to start getting pretty chilled if the temp is under ~60F or so. I need something to put on that wont be negatively affected by the moisture thats drying off of me.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: stopping on 08/14/2013 15:53:02 MDT Print View

If you're wet from sweat you're wearing too much?

Unless it's 80 F or something.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: houdini wind jacket on 08/14/2013 16:26:12 MDT Print View

I haven't tried the latest Houdini, which is reported to be much less breathable. Any good breathable windshirt is the trick. The idea is to be able to wear it with base layer while walking with a load--- conditions that would be less comfortable with a rain shell, particularly a SUL version with less breathable fabric and minus venting options.

The idea is to have a deconstructed breathable insulated jacket with fleece and windshirt forming a 3-in-1 system that can be worn in any combination. I recommend some sort of middle layer, especially for Fall weather where things can turn cold and wet. How much of a middle layer depends on the temps and your tolerance. This is stuff for rest stops and camp. Vests will give the maximum insulation for the bulk and weight and would be my choice if weight is a primary consideration.

I prefer fleecey mid layers like R1/Power Dry, Power Stretch, or just plain old 200w fleece. The R1/Dry Power option is highly breathable and light for the insulation provided and has less bulk too. It also cost like blazes, as does Power Stretch. 200w stuff is cheap and easy to find.

Richard May
(richardmay)

Locale: Costa Rica
mistakes ... on 08/14/2013 16:36:20 MDT Print View

yep, I put on a down jacket after getting sweaty. It stopped working :(

I use my fleece more in the rainy season, but I don't often go out then.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
sweat on 08/14/2013 18:41:44 MDT Print View

"If you're wet from sweat you're wearing too much?

Unless it's 80 F or something."

Nope , depends more on where.

In the humid east (AT) I sweat my tail off in the 50's.

Out west, not so much. Well, I do sweat but in my experiences in Co and NM, it evaporates so fast, you may not notice, its hard to get very wet.

Edited by livingontheroad on 08/14/2013 18:42:44 MDT.