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Mitchell Rose
(mdr) - MLife
Troop Bear Hang? on 08/03/2013 19:26:25 MDT Print View

I’m looking for knot advice and input on our food storage system. For the knot, I’m looking for the most secure knot to tie a non-slipping loop on a main line. We’re not so strict on bpl principles here since we’re going by canoe, and have easy access to beach on each end.

Our system is comprised of a main line with a series of carabineers affixed to the main line with prusik’s knots/loops and carabineers at about 5’ intervals. We then run a long line through each carabineer, with one end attached to a 5 gal Lowe’s bucket (each labeled on the bottom and side for each day) and the other end tied off to a nearby tree. Once the system is put together on the ground, we run each end of the main line over a tree branch about 25’ in the air and tie it off taught. This height allows for sag once all the buckets are hoisted up. We then hoist each bucket into the air and tie them off to trees. As you can imagine, there can be quite a few lines around the food area although we’re generally able to tie them off at an angle that reduces scouts from being close-lined.  Hopefully my explanation is thorough enough to allow for suggestions. It’s really less complicated than it sounds.

For the most part, the pusik knot holds ok, though sometimes get some slippage. Is there another knot/loop combo you would recommend for attaching the carabineers?
Do you have any suggestions for improving or devising a simpler food storage system for ~14 people over a 5 day period?

Illustration:
PC = prusik knot and carabineer combo tied to main line
B = bucket
T = tree
M = main line

M___PC__________PC__________M
/\ /\
/ \ / \
/ \ / \
B T B T


Thanks in advance for your input!

Mitchell Rose

Illustration:
PC = prusik knot and carabineer combo tied to main line
B = bucket
T = tree
M = main line

M___PC__________PC__________M
/\ /\
/ \ / \
/ \ / \
B T B T

Kronos Master of Fate
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Troop Bear Hang? on 08/03/2013 19:45:58 MDT Print View

Question. Why buckets? If you want hard sided storage why not use canisters and be done with hanging? Sure you would have initial expense. No free lunch. Sounds easier on the trees too.

14 is a huge group.

I can picture a 5 gallon bucket falling and breaking open like a pinata.

Edited by kthompson on 08/03/2013 19:48:16 MDT.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
rope on 08/04/2013 08:06:43 MDT Print View

You can just take bights in the main line, and make doubled figure 8 knot with it leaving a loop to clip the carabiners too.

But the rest of the methodology sounds cumbersome. I dont think one rope for each bucket is needed.

Jay Lash
(jjlash) - F
Knots and hanging on 08/10/2013 07:15:26 MDT Print View

The knot usually used to put a loop into the middle of a line is the Alpine Butterfly. It does not move like your prusik method, but it is easy to retie if you need to adjust the spacing.

The rest of your method is the way we might do it: main line over the branches and tied at both ends, carabiner or pulley on each loop with a "hoist line" on each, each hoist line gets a payload that is pulled up and tied off separately.

There are two other methods that we use depending on conditions. The first is the PCT method. Lots of descriptions and videos available for this just do a search. Nice because it only takes one branch and doesnt need a tie-off.

I dont know of a name for the second method, I learned it on bwca.com.

1) Rope 1: 25-ish feet with fixed loop and carabiner on one end.
2) Feed a longer hoist rope through the carabiner. Tie the hoist rope to itself so that it doesnt slip out.
3) Get Rope 1 over an appropriate branch as with other methods and tie off so that the carabiner is at least 4 feet below the branch.
4) Attach payload to hoist rope and pull away from the tree. Initially pulling will raise the load up to the carabiner, then it will pull the carabiner away from the tree bringing the food out into empty space. Tie the hoist rope just like you normally would.

You are creating a triangle with the branch as the top corner and the combination Rope 1 / Hoist Rope as the hypotenuse. You may need more than one of these setups, but you can put a lot more weight on this than the "main cable" method because the sag is not as much.



As others have said 14 is a large group. Leave No Trace considerations aside, you would be better off splitting the group, or at least using two hang locations. If you use a rule of thumb 2 pounds per person per day you are looking at 140 pounds of food for the group. To hang all 140 pounds (even decreasing by 28 pounds per day) you will need stronger ropes and higher branches to hang it all at one location.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
Force multiplier on 08/10/2013 17:46:27 MDT Print View

http://www.ropebook.com/information/vector-forces