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Steven Davis
(StevenDavisPhoto) - M

Locale: SF Bay Area
Smaller fuel canisters? on 07/25/2013 22:58:02 MDT Print View

Hey, does anyone make smaller fuel canisters than the 3.5-3.9 oz varieties? Those are great for longer trips, but what if I just want one that'll last a few days?

Edited by StevenDavisPhoto on 07/25/2013 22:58:34 MDT.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Smaller fuel canisters? on 07/25/2013 23:02:06 MDT Print View

That's called an alcohol stove.

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Smaller fuel canisters? on 07/25/2013 23:08:34 MDT Print View

So, that is a cool idea! Someone should start a Kickstart program to develop a 1 oz, refillable canister cartridge! That should be enough fuel to boil ~ 8 cups of water.

Steven Davis
(StevenDavisPhoto) - M

Locale: SF Bay Area
dont reinvent the wheel on 07/25/2013 23:13:17 MDT Print View

one of the current providers should just do it. wouldnt take much.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: dont reinvent the wheel on 07/25/2013 23:31:05 MDT Print View

Yeah, 'cause what we really need is a canister that has an even *larger* proportion of weight tied up in the useless metal part than the ones we have now. LOL

Easy back-of-the-envelope-enrico-fermi style approximate calculation, the proportion of the weight wasted in the meal part will go as 1/volume^(1/3). So going from 3.5 oz to 1 oz would increase the relative proportion of metal leaving aside the expense per unit volume of fuel) by a factor of ~ 1.5. Not sure but think that might get the weight of the metal more than the fuel before you even use it.

Also love to see how stable a jetboil would be sitting on that tiny thing!

Edited by millonas on 07/25/2013 23:33:26 MDT.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: Smaller fuel canisters? on 07/25/2013 23:50:54 MDT Print View

+1 Jen

Steven Davis
(StevenDavisPhoto) - M

Locale: SF Bay Area
yeah on 07/25/2013 23:57:07 MDT Print View

good point. im just gonna buy a starlyte alcohol stove for short trips. how do i protect it? will it fit inside my mug?

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: dont reinvent the wheel on 07/26/2013 04:18:07 MDT Print View

> a canister that has an even *larger* proportion of weight tied up in the useless metal part
You are assuming that the canister will be metal.
I recollect that one of our stovies used a small plastic container for a little butane/propane mix. It wasn't JSB, but it might have been Tony Beasley.
The secret is to have the diameter of the container SMALL.

Cheers

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Re: Re: dont reinvent the wheel on 07/26/2013 09:22:18 MDT Print View

"You are assuming that the canister will be metal."

Only because I've never seen one made out of any other material. I had always assumed there was some safety concern, if not an outright regulation, involved with this. It would be really interested to see a plastic one.

Ian Van Halen
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Carbon Fiber on 07/26/2013 09:40:39 MDT Print View

Some fire fighters use carbon fiber air tanks so it's possible. I had a chance to see the aftermath pictures of what happens when someone puts 4400 psi into a 2200 psi tank but that's another story for another day.

I'd be concerned about the stability but I sure there’s work around for that like the legs Jetboil uses for their canisters.

My first thought when I read the OP was what's the point? If you want to save that much weight, use Esbit or Alky. Then I considered all of the fires and stove restrictions where you can only use canister stoves. I think that this would be a niche market and it would be hard to justify production for the lunatic fringe of backpacking but who knows?

If you aren't subjected to stove restrictions, I'd strongly consider an Esbit or alky stove to lighten up. My light trail solid fuel kit with enough fuel for a week, spoon, lighter, etc comes in under 8 oz and my TD with Evernew 600 pot isn't much more than that.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: dont reinvent the wheel on 07/26/2013 09:43:10 MDT Print View

Bic lighters contain butane and are made of plastic.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: dont reinvent the wheel on 07/26/2013 09:52:30 MDT Print View

^^^ ...and are refillable



hmmmmm

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: dont reinvent the wheel on 07/26/2013 10:09:03 MDT Print View

I once left a generic plastic butane lighter out in the sun. It exploded. Little bits of plastic all over, some embedded in various objects. Didn't ignite. I had a spare so it was just a slightly interesting experience. I make sure and don't leave plastic lighter in sun.

Since a lighter contains so little butane, it's not that important. If you had a canister for stove with more butane, it would be more important to not explode. Plus the canister can get warmed from the stove.

With Roger's design, you wouldn't have to worry about it warming from stove.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: dont reinvent the wheel on 07/26/2013 10:14:22 MDT Print View

A container of butane to re-fill lighters, like Ronson, contains 2.75 ounces of butane. I just weighed one that weighs 3.2 ounces but it's more than half empty, so maybe container weighs 2 ounces. It looks sort of like a Lindal valve with a tip inserted so it can fill lighter. The outside collar is the same as a regular fuel canister. Maybe that tip can be pulled out with a pair of pliers.

Daniel Pittman
(pitsy) - M

Locale: Central Texas
Re: Re: dont reinvent the wheel on 07/26/2013 10:39:38 MDT Print View

I modified a 20oz pop bottle to hold the fuel and pump for my MSR Whisperlite. Works great, just don't pump it up too much or get it too close to the stove.

I wouldn't try pulling the tip out of a Ronson butane bottle... sounds dangerous.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: dont reinvent the wheel on 07/26/2013 11:11:06 MDT Print View

Remove tip from Ronson - experiment for almost empty one : )

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: dont reinvent the wheel on 07/26/2013 16:26:36 MDT Print View

> Remove tip from Ronson - experiment for almost empty one : )
Or maybe for a totally empty one?
Hint!

I suspect the little pipe bit you see on many of this style of canister is actually part of the valve iside. Not sure of the engineering details, but I question whether you can remove the pipe bit.

Cheers

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: dont reinvent the wheel on 07/26/2013 16:32:36 MDT Print View

That's weird, it says isobutane on the side of the canister

Rod Lawlor
(Rod_Lawlor) - MLife

Locale: Australia
Re: Re: Re: dont reinvent the wheel on 07/26/2013 16:41:28 MDT Print View

"I modified a 20oz pop bottle to hold the fuel and pump for my MSR Whisperlite. Works great, just don't pump it up too much or get it too close to the stove.

I wouldn't try pulling the tip out of a Ronson butane bottle... sounds dangerous."

This cracks me up

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: dont reinvent the wheel on 07/26/2013 17:19:08 MDT Print View

I am sitting here looking at that tip

Should I pull it out?....