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enLIGHTened equipment product changes in Sept.
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Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Down Testing on 09/25/2013 05:09:54 MDT Print View

None of my down comes from China. The 850 goose is from multiple European farms and the 750 duck is from France.

My testing on the duck down showed it to be equal in performance to the 750 goose down. We really like the duck down we found. This down is white for a better price than grey goose and the white looks nicer in our lighter colored quilts.

Is it as warm? Yeah. When I first tested 750 it actually lofted more than the 800 or 850 (different fill volumes to achieve same loft goal) so I expect zero loss in performance with just a small weight penalty.


Charlie Murphy
(baltocharlie) - F

Locale: MAryland
another customer!! on 09/25/2013 09:24:19 MDT Print View

Tim: Just bought the RevX 20. No need to reply to this, I know you are busy. Just a mid-week bump as well. Carry-on.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: another customer!! on 09/25/2013 09:42:12 MDT Print View

Cool Charlie! Hope you love it!

There was a screw up with our 750 shipment. It was set to deliver yesterday but was packaged way wrong for us do it had to go back. It was never supposed to get picked up so they could repackage. Logistics! They are sending me one bag some I can get to work while they sort it. Should be here tomorrow. So still hoping to get this weeks stock orders out by Sat! Fingers crossed


Art Tyszka
(arttyszka) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Enigma Updates on 10/01/2013 09:26:43 MDT Print View

Hi Tim, any updates for us on the Enigma? I'm sure I'm not the only one excited by and interested in it. Patiently (not so much) waiting to see it on your site.


Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Enigma Updates on 10/01/2013 10:07:51 MDT Print View


I'm so close. Have to call the cutting shop today about early templates. They are cutting a few for me but I guess there's a problem.

Will be by end of the month for sure


David Mandrella

Locale: Independence Lake
Epiphany on 10/02/2013 17:55:33 MDT Print View

Hey Tim,

I see all these suggestions for more colors, options on down / etc. While I do see the potential benefit (to sales) of adding a "girly" color option, I do not think that adding stock fill options works as well with your business model of 'tiered product offerings'.

I'm assuming that you still do custom jobs? The "elite" crowd knows what they want, and all the drop-down boxes in the world won't cover all those options. That is the beauty of the cottage industry in my view...agility! Who else could I have called (or emailed in this case) but Tim Marshall when I wanted a 900FP quilt with a 7D shell? You're one of the few guys out there that would even entertain the idea. Kudos for offering that level of service Tim, and don't think for a moment that it isn't appreciated!

If that little blurb about duck down being more water-resistant than goose is true, then it's a hands down winner in my book and a good selling point on the RevX. Offering a more water-resistant down on an entry level quilt makes a ton of sense to me...especially since it gives a bit more fault tolerence for those 'oops' moments that every newbie is bound to encounter. (Like when your nalgene bottle develops a 'leak' when the top isn't tight, or when you bury your face inside a barely breathable bivy during the night and wake up soaked.) Now if only you could get that duck down treated to be hydrophobic on top of that inherit water-resistance...

As far as the Epiphany goes, if you're going to add a nylon strip on the side, why not just do the whole top in a lightweight, breathable fabric (or a WPB/DWR fabric if moisture is an issue)? You'd still get the vapor barrier from the Cuben Liner without the slow loft/dry times (I'm assuming that's what you were shooting for). It could lower the price-point substantially and put the Epiphany more 'in-reach' price-wise (which I think has been the limiting factor on your past model as far as sales...It just cost too much for a few ounces shaved & a clammy sleeping experience imho.)

Anyway Tim, keep up the outstanding work, your products are top-notch, can't wait to see this new Enigma quilt.



Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: Epiphany on 10/05/2013 22:25:00 MDT Print View

I can tell you that getting 7d is expensive.

It is available, and although I have yet to see a sample, the 7d available only saves 2 grams per square meter off the lightest 10d so it's really not worth the hype.

Plus every fabric from the mill is very different in retrospect to what you want. 75% of the fabric orders you look at for a 1,000+ yard order will not have the right feel, mainley crinkley or not nearly soft enough.

I totaly agree on the girly colors though.
An aqua or fusha color would be such a girly thing that I could see it sell.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: Epiphany on 10/20/2013 18:24:25 MDT Print View

So the plan is for the new site to go live tomorrow night and a limited offering of sizes for the Enigma with it. You guys have been here for the whole thing so i'd love your help. Could you check it out tonight/tomorrow and let me know of any errors or mistakes I may have made?

Thanks all.


Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Epiphany on 10/20/2013 18:36:18 MDT Print View

Looks good Tim. A couple of comments:

The pics with the orange strips at head/foot don't clearly show the baffle system, it's lost in the orange. The light green shows it better.

On any of the Enigma quilts, when you first select one, the pic on the left is slightly blurry. When you click on the pic for the larger pic, that's in focus.

I'd recommend making the extreme water resistant head/foot stripes as an option on the main ordering menu instead of having to click a link to order the option. So it would be the fourth selection (Size, Inside Color, Outside Color, Extreme WR Strips). Or at least put the link to the option with the other ordering options.

The quilts look great, I think they'll be a big hit!

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
its here... tomorrow on 10/20/2013 18:39:54 MDT Print View

The only thing I dont really like on the beta site is Downtek plastered on every picture of the Enigma. Maybe its an advertising deal your involved in but it takes away attention of your company.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: Re: Down Testing on 10/20/2013 18:57:26 MDT Print View

i find it interesting that you found no practical differences between similar fill goose and duck down ... most marketing spiels go off about the "superiority" of goose over duck

that ~700 fill power may be more suitable for real world humidity has been known for some time on BPL

Ryan Jordan
( ryan - BPL STAFF - M)

Greater Yellowstone

NEW Re: Re: Re: Introduction to Outdoor Retailer Summer Market 2008 on 08/10/2008 08:04:56 MDT

Bill et al.,

I spoke at length with IDFL yesterday about down testing.

None of their tests stimulate real world testing. 900 fp in a test is going to be a pipe dream in the field, because they steam wash and dry the down to nearly zero humidity before doing the test. Ironically, this most recent iteration of test methods was designed to determine the maximum possible fill power for down rather than what it will look like in the field.

Interestingly as a side note, we did some 900 fp testing of down a few years ago on two manufacturer's 900 bags. We cut the bags open and sent them to IDFL. Neither made the claimed 900 spec (they tested 830-870 using the steam method). What was more dramatic was that when each down (which clearly came from different sources as evidenced by visual inspection) was subjected to 50% humidity, the differences were pretty dramatic. One bag tested at 770 fp, the other at 680 fp. It seems that at least these two sources of 900 down had feathers in it that were not resilient in response to humidity.

The kicker is that we ran the same test next to down taken from a manufacturer's 750 fp bag. at 50% humidity, the fp was 720. Why? It had more feathers that were stiff enough to preserve the loft in moist conditions.


Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: its here... tomorrow on 10/20/2013 19:03:16 MDT Print View

Ive been waiting along time to offer the Downtek. I'm a little excited:)


Not sure what's going on with the pics. I'll have my web buddy give a look before we stick it in the root. I tried to add the stripes to the product page but it's a huge pain in the ars, same with down overstuff. I can't just make them add ons I have to manually enter a price for every possible combination of options.


Edited by MarshLaw303 on 10/20/2013 19:13:17 MDT.

Gregory Hardy

Locale: North Carolina
mislabeled photos on 10/20/2013 19:19:31 MDT Print View


They look amazing. Congrats on the new lineup. Small comment, the photo's for the 0* are labeled as 10*

- Greg

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: mislabeled photos on 10/20/2013 19:23:51 MDT Print View

0 30 and 50 are borrowing pics from the 40 20 and 10 that I have here. Once I get those done they'll get their own pics

Rebecca Canode
(bcanode) - F
website comments on 10/20/2013 19:26:06 MDT Print View

I checked out your beta website and had a few comments on the site.

It mentioned the optional Weather Resistant Stripes in the description, but there didn't seem to be an option to add that to the quilt when placing an order unless I clicked on the "Extreme Water resistant fabric stripes at the head and foot" under Materials. It seems like it would be better if this was an option when selecting the quilt.

The text on the pictures seem a bit blurry.

Also, on the page for Weather Resistant Stripes, it list three colors (Aspen Green, Sedona Sage and Blaze Orange), but only shows pictures of two colors.

When you click on the Tag for the temperature rating (, the spacing is off and the price is wrapped on some products, but not others.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: website comments on 10/20/2013 19:38:16 MDT Print View

Anybody have thoughts on the new sizing structure or specs tables?


Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: website comments on 10/20/2013 19:40:37 MDT Print View

Looks very good Tim,

Christmas is coming :-)

David Mandrella

Locale: Independence Lake
Enigma Quilt on 10/20/2013 20:10:47 MDT Print View

Hey Tim,

How about a black color option for the Waterproof Strips? Also, some info on the tech specs of the fabric would be a good addition. When do you plan to offer them in a wide?

I wonder how the 850 DownTek would fare in the 50% humidity versus the 750 Duck?


Edited by thedavil on 10/20/2013 23:22:16 MDT.

James DeGraaf
(jdegraaf) - MLife

Locale: Bay Area
Re: Re: website comments on 10/20/2013 23:04:05 MDT Print View

Your quilts shrunk?! Must be from the flat foot box. Your six foot quilts used to fit me (6' 1") very well. Is that still true? And how do you select which width to get?

There also used to be a chart that had a range for height, do you still have that?

Other than that looks great!


Edited by jdegraaf on 10/20/2013 23:26:37 MDT.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Enigma Quilt on 10/20/2013 23:33:21 MDT Print View


50% is less than than the humidity used to determine fill power and the EN 13537 ratings. So, it will provide more insulation than the specs.

Edited by richard295 on 10/21/2013 03:12:57 MDT.