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Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Comparing m90 to Pertex on 07/16/2013 19:41:33 MDT Print View

Folks,

Bit of a vague question but can anyone tell me what version of Pertex would m90 be comparable too (close enough) when it comes to water/wind resistance and durability.

Thanks,

Stephen

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Comparing m90 to Pertex on 07/16/2013 21:05:27 MDT Print View

Stephen,

Of the fabrics available from Pertex, Quantum N-090 is the closest to M90.

Edited by richard295 on 07/16/2013 21:13:22 MDT.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: Comparing m90 to Pertex on 07/16/2013 21:22:22 MDT Print View

Which version of m90? V2 and v3 are pretty different

-Tim

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Re: Re: Comparing m90 to Pertex on 07/16/2013 22:13:40 MDT Print View

Tim,

Very good point!

I gave my above comparison based on the 3/3/11 variant I tested from the Thru-Hiker (V?). After reading your post I see that I also tested another variant from the same source on 11/5/12 (V?). For the second M90 test, the air permeability doubled and the HH went down. This 11/5/12 version would be more similar to Pertex Equilibrium.

Did TH change the fabric and use the same name again after 11/5/12?

Recently I started fingerprinting anything I test by micrographing the sample at a wide range of different FOVs and storing the micrographs along with the test results. The fingerprint now clearly lets me know if two fabrics are the same regardless of what they are called and from whom they are sourced.

Edited by richard295 on 07/16/2013 22:20:57 MDT.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
re on 07/16/2013 23:35:32 MDT Print View

It seems like pertex is more durable, scratch resistant etc. and M90 is softer, but has a wet/ rubbery feel. Thats just my perception.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: Re: Re: Comparing m90 to Pertex on 07/16/2013 23:50:03 MDT Print View

Richard,
Thru-hiker sells both V2 and V3 currently depending on color. V2 is the highly water resistant less air perm stuff and v3 is much more air perm with less water resistance. I like both knowing their qualities and choosing them for different jobs.

Impetus has replaced both Pertex and momentum for me in ~1oz fabrics.

-Tim

Philip Marshall
(philthy) - MLife
Impetus on 07/17/2013 00:16:58 MDT Print View

Sorry to take this thread off track - Tim how does Impetus compare to both m90 and pertex quantum (say the variety that TH and Zpacks stock) in terms of DWR, air permeability, hand?

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Impetus on 07/17/2013 06:02:13 MDT Print View

Fellow Marshall,

Impetus 1.0 (Black/Grey IM1) has a smooth comfortable face like m90V2 and higher breathability like m90V3 (these are my favorite features for breathable sleeping quilt fabrics)

Impetus 1.1 (Aspen Green IM2) has a light silicone coating for high weather resistance and low air permiability like m90V2 but with a much slicker face making it more slippery which sheds water even better.

I have no use for the Impetus 1.2 (Sedona sage) its not breathable and waterproof to a low degree so not good for quilts or stuff sacks basically all I make.

-Tim

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
M90v2 Blue on 07/17/2013 07:53:54 MDT Print View

Gents,

Thanks all for the replies, its M90v2 (blue)

Cheers,

Stephen

Chad Poindexter
(Stick) - F

Locale: Wet & Humid Southeast....
TH M90 V2 & 3 Carification on 07/17/2013 07:59:02 MDT Print View

Tim, would you mind clarifying which colors are v2 & which are v3? I notice on the TH site that in the description for M90 MR he adds a note that says: "M90v2 fabric is more water resistant but less breathable than M90v3 fabric." But I am still not sure which is which...

Also, off subject a bit, but has anyone tried the Argon fabric that Dutch is selling?

Argon Material

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: TH M90 V2 & 3 Carification on 07/17/2013 08:19:00 MDT Print View

Chad,

This is part of a correpsonde I had with Ben Smith last year.




The Blue fabric on your parka is M90v2, which is still available for Blue and Tan. The Red, Yellow, and Forest Green that I have are M90v3 - slightly stiffer, but more breathable.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: TH M90 V2 & 3 Carification on 07/17/2013 08:23:50 MDT Print View

Chad, use the pull down it specifies which is what.

Argon inbound!

-Tim

Edited by MarshLaw303 on 07/17/2013 08:24:56 MDT.

Tanner M
(Tan68)
Re: TH M90 V2 & 3 Carification on 07/17/2013 08:24:06 MDT Print View

Chad, drop down box for color selection is where either v2 or v3 lives next to the color name.

Obsoleted in 16 seconds...

Edited by Tan68 on 07/17/2013 08:24:43 MDT.

Chad Poindexter
(Stick) - F

Locale: Wet & Humid Southeast....
Re: Re: TH M90 V2 & 3 Carification on 07/17/2013 08:26:43 MDT Print View

Doh... so simple... :) Sorry guys...

Tanner M
(Tan68)
Re: Re: Re: TH M90 V2 & 3 Carification on 07/17/2013 08:33:19 MDT Print View

I hadn't heard of the dutch place. They have some interesting hardware. Most of it have no more idea what to with than extra forks at dinner.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: Re: Re: TH M90 V2 & 3 Carification on 07/17/2013 09:27:49 MDT Print View

Tanner,

Dutch is a hammockforums vendor so his hardware is designed to be used in a hammock kit. Some of the tarp hardware could be used by ground sleeping tarp users too. He has a keen eye for design.

-Tim

Tanner M
(Tan68)
Re: Re: Impetus v. other stuff & argon on 07/22/2013 12:42:28 MDT Print View

- - If you read this Tim, maybe skip to the next post. It isn't as long as this one...

I would like to use a shell with equal or greater breathability than liner. I figure Nobul-something for the liner and a 1.1 ounce or so for the shell. [edit: I found a post by you that Nubul is pretty darn breathable and it seems I will be hard pressed to find a shell more breathable..]

The M50 seems to be less breathable than either version of M90. So, the 1.1-class...

However, this Impetus seems to be a lighter material that is similar in breathability to M90... It is more breathable than M50, anyway ?

You say Argon is inbound. Is that inbound as a sample or inbound for use and you have already sampled it? If sampled, where does it fit in the M50-M90/Impetus spectrum.. ?

Also, I have been hunting interesting colors. This is secondary to the items above, really. Red, blue, yellow, gray, brown seem to be it... Z-pack has green Quantum GL. Any idea on sage green or cayenne or some fancy color MHW or NF manage ?

Either way, thanks for the time. I have looked through threads with numbers. I am just interested in relative breat... how much air can be sucked through the materials. The other threads didn't have much on these types of fabrics anyway. More coated or stuff for windshirts.

- - I found your post comparing M50 to Nubul/?D/etc. (it helps) that starts:
> 8D:
more breathable (than anything i've seen)
softest feel against skin of any fabric i've seen, especiialy in this weight class...

Edited by Tan68 on 07/22/2013 13:26:10 MDT.

Tanner M
(Tan68)
Re: Re: Impetus - maybe this Q is more simple on 07/22/2013 13:24:47 MDT Print View

Or, to weed out the extra stuff I wrote that takes time to read...

It seems things line up like this for breathability
Nobul
M90 v3
M90 v2
M50

Impetus 1.0 slots in about M90 v3 ?
Impetus 1.1 slots in about M90 v2 ?
Argone might go where ?

Breeze resistance is basically turning the list upside down: M50 > M90 v2, M90 v3, etc.

Edited by Tan68 on 07/22/2013 14:01:59 MDT.

Tim Marshall
(MarshLaw303) - MLife

Locale: Minnesota
Re: Re: Re: Impetus - maybe this Q is more simple on 07/22/2013 13:54:02 MDT Print View

The impetus 1.0 is very similar in breathability to m90 v3. The texture is a little smoother but I would say they are pretty interchangeable.

Argon sample is headed my way.

-Tim

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - M

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Impetus - maybe this Q is more simple on 07/22/2013 17:16:58 MDT Print View

I recently used Argon on a quilt for someone at Hammockforums. My thoughts thus far - very breathable, DWR isn't great(doesnt really need to be in a hammock I suppose) and downproofness is still up in the air.. I suspect it won't be great considering the breathability, plus being totally downproof at these weights is difficult unless that is your number one goal. Overall, seems like a decent fabric for the price and weight though.

P.S - Tanner, I would put Argon near Nobull on breathability. This is via a very scientific breath test so keep that in mind. : )

Ryan

Edited by ViolentGreen on 07/22/2013 17:21:35 MDT.