Lightest stuff sacks?
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Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Lightest stuff sacks? on 07/15/2013 14:59:28 MDT Print View

I've got a big bike trip coming up and I have two Ortlieb panniers. I gutted the organizational insert because it weighed a lot.

If I wanted to pack two or three simple drawstring stuff sacks to keep my cooking gear, first aid, and tent repair stuff organized instead of having it slosh around in the Ortlieb, what are my lightest options?

Is Cuben Fiber the lightest, and if so, is there a cheaper alternative that comes close? Is there a very durable mesh stuff sack that gets the weight down there?

These are purely organizational, they don't need to be water resistant at all. However, since they're gonna have things like a metal pot in them, they shouldn't be too flimsy.

Edited by mdilthey on 07/15/2013 15:00:19 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Lightest stuff sacks? on 07/15/2013 15:22:39 MDT Print View

"Is Cuben Fiber the lightest, and if so, is there a cheaper alternative that comes close? Is there a very durable mesh stuff sack that gets the weight down there?"

I have Cuben Fiber stuff sacks. They are very lightweight, but very pricey. I made a bunch out of M50 nylon (thru-hiker) and they turned out well. Almost as lightweight but a lot cheaper, especially if you can sew. I made a bunch out of mosquito net, and they turned out OK since they are fairly transparent for finding things inside. I made a bunch out of some lightweight mesh, and they are OK, but not terribly strong. The mesh was free to me, so I had no excuse not to use it.

You might even try some flimsy plastic shopping bags. The price is right. Plus, you might find them in different colors for color-coding.

--B.G.--

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Lightest stuff sacks? on 07/15/2013 15:28:35 MDT Print View

A stuff sack uses so little fabric, doesn't make that much difference is you use super light fabric.

If you're talking about a tent, then Cuben can save a lot of weight because it uses so much fabric.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Logic Wins on 07/15/2013 15:50:51 MDT Print View

Good point, Jerry.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Lightest stuff sacks? on 07/15/2013 16:06:07 MDT Print View

If you only need one stuff sack, then it probably doesn't make much difference.

However, we might be talking about six or eight big sacks, and the tiny difference will add up.

--B.G.--

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
How many? on 07/15/2013 16:33:13 MDT Print View

I'm talking about... well, let's see.

Currently I have two mesh bags for my sleeping bag and insulated jacket, just to keep them from going all over.

I'll need one for first aid and repair
One for cooking stuff
One for clothing

And I already have a big one for bear bagging.

So, three in addition to the three i'm using. I might decide to replace all 6.

Sea to Summit has No-see-Um mesh bags, anything lighter than these?


I figure there must be someone who got curious and ran the numbers and found a "best" option. Normally I'd forgo stuff sacks but I know it's gonna make a big difference in how fast I move through camp, and on the bike I won't notice ounces like this (but if I'm buying them anyways, no reason not to get the lightest.)

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: How many? on 07/15/2013 16:44:09 MDT Print View

Some stuff sacks cry for maximum waterproofness, and I'm thinking of the sleeping bag, down jacket, etc. Other stuff sacks cry for maximum durability, and I'm thinking of the ones holding metal gear like stoves and cook pots. Other stuff sacks cry for maximum transparency, and I'm thinking of the so-called ditty bag that holds lots of small items. For a big bear bagging food bag, I would recommend something that is very durable and also dark in color. Now, often a sleeping bag stuff sack is used for bear bagging, so you get two uses out of one item. It is unlikely that you need both at the same time.

Little tiny stuff sacks probably don't make a lot of sense. I'm talking about the size of your hand or smaller. A Ziploc bag is good enough there.

--B.G.--

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
What Bob said on 07/15/2013 16:48:37 MDT Print View

It's hard to be Ziplocks for your ditty bag, FAK, etc. I'm not sure how old mine are but they are still going strong so I suspect that they'd be fine for your bike trip.

Something Bob mentioned in another thread which is worth repeating here is using a head net as one of your stuff sacks.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: What Bob said on 07/15/2013 16:54:04 MDT Print View

I've done the head net stuff sack. Another one is I sewed up a UL daypack out of M50 or M90 that weighs 1.4 oz., and it doubles as a food stuff sack.

--B.G.--

Mike W
(skopeo) - F

Locale: British Columbia
Lightest stuff sacks? on 07/15/2013 16:59:15 MDT Print View

>> Ziplocks for your ditty bag, FAK, etc <<

That depends on how badly you want to keep things dry. I use Ziplocks for some things but after seeing what "falling in" did to my Ziplock first aid kit (melted pills and wet bandages), I now use mini-dry bags for the important stuff. YMMV

BJ Clark
(bj.clark) - MLife

Locale: Colorado
Re: Lightest stuff sacks? on 07/15/2013 17:10:24 MDT Print View

Oven roasting bags. Light, cheap, and tough. Great for clothing and sleeping bags. Too big for repair and FAK.

Edited by bj.clark on 07/15/2013 17:12:30 MDT.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: Lightest stuff sacks? on 07/15/2013 17:10:57 MDT Print View

I agree with Mike: Don't count on zip locks keeping things dry. They will keep things drier, for a while. But pills need more protection such as small nalgene screw-tops. And for electronics near salt water - I only use roll-down-the-top dry bags or gasketed hard cases. The zip locks reduce a dunking to a few drops of water, but a few drops of salt water will kill most phones and some cameras. GPSs and VHF radios rated as submersible and intended for a marine environment do okay, but the instructions still recommended rinsing in fresh water upon your return.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Lightest stuff sacks? on 07/15/2013 17:15:58 MDT Print View

I am even more concerned about keeping my camera gear dry, and I carry about nine or ten pounds of it. A standard flimsy plastic shopping bag encloses the camera, and then that goes inside an all-weather zippered camera bag. This gets tested periodically in stream crossings, and it works. However, I move pretty fast through the stream.

--B.G.--

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Super Helpful on 07/15/2013 17:33:40 MDT Print View

Ok, great info here.

-I will use my headnet as a stuff sack for my coat. Perfect. I love this forum.
-I use Aloksaks for things like lighters, charging cables, and first aid supplies. These small items should be relatively waterproof in there. However, I want a small stuff sack for all the Aloksaks to prevent them from scraping on an errant buckle and ripping.

Now, I am carrying an expensive DSLR. However, I am not doing any stream crossings. So, the Ziplok Bag inside a camera case inside a hydration pack will probably do.

HOWEVER!

Relevant to this "Probably" is that I am using Ortlieb back Rollers, which are practically dry sacks. Camera can always go in there.

But, would you trust this system? Or buy one more dry sack?

So, here's the final setup:

Sleeping bag Sack (Mesh)
Food Sack (Keeping these separate because I want to keep food in it all the time for organization).
Headnet for insulated jacket
1 super lightweight silnylon drybag for first aid/repair/cables
1 super lightweight silnylon drybag for Thermarest (forgot to mention this one)
1 ultra-sil drybag (whichever is the heavier Sea to Summit) for pot, water filter, and lid


Thoughts?

Edited by mdilthey on 07/15/2013 17:34:13 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Super Helpful on 07/15/2013 17:43:38 MDT Print View

"Thoughts?"

You're overthinking this.

--B.G.--

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
No, Really on 07/15/2013 17:53:47 MDT Print View

I legitimately need advice from other photographers on whether the protection I've got is enough for a weather-sealed DSLR. :/

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: No, Really on 07/15/2013 17:58:15 MDT Print View

Max, we can't see your stuff, so we have no way to tell what you have going.

Instead, why don't _you_ test your own stuff? Load it up and spray it down with a garden hose. If you see more than about one drop of water, then back off and try something else.

--B.G.--

Eric Lundquist
(cobberman) - F - M

Locale: Northern Colorado
Re: Lightest stuff sacks? on 07/15/2013 18:37:13 MDT Print View

Why not use a Nylobarrier pack liner bag as your first step in water protection and throw all your stuff sacks in that. They're cheap, light, transparent, and waterproof.

I wouldn't be concerned with the camera gear. Put it in a Ziplock and then in the Nylobarrier bring some desiccant packs if you're that worried. This is what I bring camping, while I haven't been hit by a lot of rain at one time, It's held up fine. If you stash away the camera too far, you wont take pictures.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
No Way, man! on 07/15/2013 18:59:43 MDT Print View

I agree with the Nylobarrier. Bob, I just can't get behind testing the waterproofness of a camera bag by spraying my $2000 camera with a hose.

I'd rather ask on the forums... If you don't have the free time to answer, someone else likely will. I feel like i'm bugging you.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: No Way, man! on 07/15/2013 19:08:17 MDT Print View

Make a dummy camera. Or borrow a friends.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Riddled with issues on 07/15/2013 19:37:36 MDT Print View

Not bad. I'll have to wait till it rains: I don't own a hose...

I'm hoping the ace photographer with 10 years experience chimes in and just answers for me so I can focus on more important things, like stuff sack organization and color-coordination.

Eric Lundquist
(cobberman) - F - M

Locale: Northern Colorado
Re: Lightest stuff sacks? on 07/15/2013 20:40:25 MDT Print View

Do you own a scale and have access to a kitchen sink or shower? Put some toilet paper in your "dry bag" solution and weigh it. Do your water torture test. Dry off the outer bag and weigh it again. Extra weight meant water or water vapor made its way in. No cameras harmed in the process.

Shawn Peterson
(afterdarkphoto)

Locale: Nor Cal
Sruff sacks on 07/15/2013 22:23:00 MDT Print View

Zpacks sells cuben fiber and water proof roll top bags.

I am a photographer and will tell you from practical experience, don't skimp on waterproofing your digital gear. All it takes is a spilled pot of boiling water on your stuff, a trip and fall into the creek, or a major down pour with a pack liner failure or pack cover failure and you are risking lots of money lost. For less than ounce and $22 you can get a medium sized roll top dry bag and protect our camera.

I've noticed there are some super helpful people here on BPL.....

I hope you find my advice useful and helpful....I've lost some serious money in gear for making some silly decisions about waterproofing my cameras.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Ok, getting a dry bag on 07/16/2013 08:34:26 MDT Print View

Thanks Shawn... That was my suspicion but I didn't want to be paranoid...

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Re: Sruff sacks on 07/16/2013 09:16:52 MDT Print View

>I've noticed there are some super helpful people here on BPL.....

Yeah, seriously. I don't have a hose, I don't have a scale, I DO have a question, and if you don't have an answer then you shouldn't waste time responding to the thread.

When someone asks "Is this a good tent?" The answer isn't "Go buy it, get in your backyard, perform tests, and tell us what happened." People wait for people who know to just answer.

Annoying...

Tanner M
(Tan68)
Re: No, Really on 07/16/2013 10:33:15 MDT Print View

What do you plan on doing with the camera during this trip? How does protection need to be different? In the past, when you have carried it, do you feel it was adequately protected?

What I mean is, there is likely to be a greater chance you will run into bad weather if you are out longer. For shorter trips, there is less likelihood of a chance. However, when that occurrence occurs it can be just as bad weather whether you are on a day trip or or whatever.

What that means is, if you have felt protection was adequate in the past, why not now? If you feel protection is not adequate now because you will be out longer, you were taking chances with that occurrence occurring during short trips ;^)

I also carry several pounds of camera stuff. My camera is sealed. The kinds of lenses I prefer are not. Camera in holster, holster in mostly empty Talon. Because I worry, I keep a garbage bag handy in the top pocket.

I presume your worry is with the bike trip and not day walking with the camera. If the panier leaking is the problem, I might consider looking at what will make the panier mostly water proof and go from there. It wouldn't need to be a dry bag, would it? A plastic line you cal roll should do; the lid would secure it. Mmm, the panier is an enclosed thing, isn't it..

Where I worked in the past, we got super thick plastic bags full of parts. I kept some for diving gear to keep the trunk dry. Maybe there are some really heavy plastic bags for you to line the panier with?

This place has similar things, but they cost too much:
http://www.interplas.com/gusseted-poly-bags/3-mil-loose-pack-gusset-plastic-bags
You do get 500-100 of them, though.

As far as dSLR in ziplocs or whatever, I think that is fine to keep them dry. If you put wet things in a sealed plastic bag, water vapor will form, depending on temp, of course. I don't know if that will be a concern or not but it is something I would try to minimize.

Tanner M
(Tan68)
Re: Re: Lightest stuff sacks? on 07/16/2013 10:38:09 MDT Print View

> Why not use a Nylobarrier pack liner bag as your first step in water protection and throw all your stuff sacks in that. They're cheap, light, transparent, and waterproof.

I stopped reading and made my post too soon. Whatever this is, I would take a look at it to line the panier.

Max, no need to spray the camera. You can spray the panier and see if water gets in. (oh, and I am still thinking of the enclosed types as on motorcycles...). If water gets in, try the turkey bag or Nylobag or my super expensive solution.

If the panier has a lid that isn't damaged, wouldn't lining the panier work...?

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Sruff sacks on 07/16/2013 10:43:39 MDT Print View

">I've noticed there are some super helpful people here on BPL.....

Yeah, seriously. I don't have a hose, I don't have a scale, I DO have a question, and if you don't have an answer then you shouldn't waste time responding to the thread.

When someone asks "Is this a good tent?" The answer isn't "Go buy it, get in your backyard, perform tests, and tell us what happened." People wait for people who know to just answer.

Annoying..."

Max,

I fully understand that you are fully committed to keeping the BPL drama alive and for that, I salute you. Stuff sacks are complicated and I'm glad to see that you've brought your concerns to BPL.

Your OP:

"I've got a big bike trip coming up and I have two Ortlieb panniers. I gutted the organizational insert because it weighed a lot.

If I wanted to pack two or three simple drawstring stuff sacks to keep my cooking gear, first aid, and tent repair stuff organized instead of having it slosh around in the Ortlieb, what are my lightest options?

Is Cuben Fiber the lightest, and if so, is there a cheaper alternative that comes close? Is there a very durable mesh stuff sack that gets the weight down there?

These are purely organizational, they don't need to be water resistant at all. However, since they're gonna have things like a metal pot in them, they shouldn't be too flimsy."

The part that sticks out to me is:

"These are purely organizational, they don't need to be water resistant at all. However, since they're gonna have things like a metal pot in them, they shouldn't be too flimsy."

And of that:

"they don't need to be water resistant at all."

As the thread transitions to waterproofing your camera, a few BPL members had the audacity to try and offer some helpful suggestions. Lesser men would have been gracious for the input and thanked these bumpkins for their time. I think that it's absolutely outstanding that you were able to share your feelings with the world:

"Annoying..."

Max, the fact that you were annoyed is completely unacceptable. I think that the only acceptable solution is for you to post your BPL manifesto for all to read so they will never ever annoy you again.

(slowly fade in Greatest Love of All)

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com) - M

Locale: no. california
Re: Re: Sruff sacks / annoying on 07/16/2013 10:52:32 MDT Print View

" annoying "

you ?
who lacks running water. but somehow has internet access ...

yes.

v.

Tanner M
(Tan68)
Re: Re: Re: Sruff sacks / annoying on 07/16/2013 11:00:50 MDT Print View

I gather running water isn't the trouble. He has no hose.

I figure that means he literally lacks only the hose to implement the idea or has no place to hook up a hose, even if he had one.

Some people have neither garden nor hose. I suppose he could go to the type of car wash that has handheld wands..?

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Just stop it on 07/16/2013 11:07:32 MDT Print View

There is no water, no Nalgene bottle (this is BPL after all), no red solo cup, no rain, no sprinkler, no water fountain, no TP roll which could be sruffed in the sruff sack as a mock camera, no hydrogen or oxygen from which to create a H20 molecule....

Apparently the only thing that exists there is a gigantic black hole of need.

Tanner M
(Tan68)
Re: Just stop it on 07/16/2013 11:13:06 MDT Print View

Not even Little Sippy :^(

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Sruff sacks / annoying on 07/16/2013 11:22:21 MDT Print View

Methinks Max just wants someone to give him the solution so he doesn't have to figure things out for himself.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
And why not? That's what the forum's for. on 07/16/2013 15:15:03 MDT Print View

Nick's right. Just trying to coax the answer out of someone, and I did.

Ian, use your big ol' brain and read the thread, the camera doesn't come up until later on Page 1.

It shouldn't have to take 3 days and 30 posts, but here's the answer I got:

For stuff sacks, no-see-um netting are the lightest.

For the camera, I should use an air-permeable dry sack so that water vapor doesn't form, and to protect the camera.

Thanks for the help, people who were helpful. People who decided to make this a political thread about which questions are ok to ask and which aren't, go out and hike.

Edited by mdilthey on 07/16/2013 15:17:36 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: And why not? That's what the forum's for. on 07/16/2013 15:25:41 MDT Print View

Once again you are displaying your lack of reading comprehension. My unedited response from above:

"As the thread transitions to waterproofing your camera, a few BPL members had the audacity to try and offer some helpful suggestions. Lesser men would have been gracious for the input and thanked these bumpkins for their time. I think that it's absolutely outstanding that you were able to share your feelings with the world:"

Here's some free advice Max. At some point you will be released to the real world. You'll find it more welcoming to you if you lose your sense of entitlement between now and then.

Max Dilthey
(mdilthey) - M

Locale: MaxTheCyclist.com
Why am I your project? on 07/16/2013 15:40:30 MDT Print View

Ian,

The real world is treating me just fine. You would do well to worry about Ian Bloom and not Max Dilthey.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Why am I your project? on 07/16/2013 15:46:45 MDT Print View

It's because I care Max. You look like you need a hug. Bring it in muffin face.

Richard Fischel
(RICKO) - F
nobody drifts his own thread on 07/16/2013 15:50:31 MDT Print View

better than max. we'd be better off if max gave us the answer and we came up with the questions.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Why am I your project? on 07/16/2013 16:27:57 MDT Print View

Enough with the fighting!
Ian, you go back to the Chaff corner. You are sorely missed there.
Max, I would be happy to make you a no see um stuff sack.

;)


Edited to correct the auto correct
" you are solely missed there" is not what I meant..


Mittens, sure, can do.

Edited by Kat_P on 07/16/2013 16:38:24 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Why am I your project? on 07/16/2013 16:35:33 MDT Print View

mumble mumble (sheepishly looks up at Kat) Well he started it.

Edit: Hey Kat could you make me a couple pair of no see um mittens? Not kidding.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 07/16/2013 16:36:54 MDT.