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Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Duomid inner question on 07/14/2013 07:52:06 MDT Print View

I feel a bit idiotic that I'm struggling with this, but I can't seem to find much guidance here. Can someone please enlighten me with how they attach their solo innernet to the inside of the MLD duomid?

Do you hook it on the guylines? Just stake it to the ground? Mitten hooks? Locking toggle things?

I'm going to play around with this some more this afternoon, but it seems like it should be way easier than I'm making it. I know this is asking quite a lot but pictures would be great....,apparently I'm a slow learner....

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Duomid inner question on 07/14/2013 09:30:38 MDT Print View

Well, here's one way, for a pole towards the door, outside a solo bug net -

I attached the "receiver" side of a buckle to the top of the 'mid with a short piece of grosgain, but long enough to get your hands up there when the pole is in place. (I can't remember if my 'mid had an existing hang-loop or if I added it.)

I attached an 18" section of grosgrain to the top of my bug net, with the "plug" side of the buckle threaded on. I tied in a "stopper" knot 2" from the end of the grosgrain to make sure I always had something to pull on, and to never lose the buckle. (You must attach the "adjustable" side of the buckle to the bug net. Otherwise you can't easily tension it.)

I used mitten hooks, with the flex-tab cut back so it was just a hook, attached immediately to LineLock3s, with the cord running back a corner of the bug net. That way I could hook a guyline and tension by pulling the tail coming off the LineLock. A longish tail makes this easier. With the LineLocks at the hook you can reach them from outside the 'mid for both tensioning (awkward) and release.

[I just realized that instead of a buckle at the top you could a mitten hook and LineLock, although I don't know if the "disconnect" would be as easy.]

I'd set up the 'mid, connect the bug net to my corner and midpoint guylines, and square things up.

Then I'd snap the peak buckle together (at the maximum length), and tension the bug net.

For me, every setup was a little different, so every height was different, so I needed the height/tension adjustability afforded by the buckle and the corner LineLocks. Yep, adds weight, but it was relatively easy to get a tight, square, net-off-the-'mid pitch

Take-down was a PITA if there was a lot of condensation. There was not an easy way to reach into the peak to unsnap the buckle without getting wet. The cut down mitten hooks meant I didn't have to get two hands in there to disconnect the corners.

Edited by greg23 on 07/14/2013 09:39:48 MDT.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
re: Duomid inner question on 07/14/2013 09:51:31 MDT Print View

Here's what MLD's site says:

"The very first time you set up your Innernet and Mid will take about 10-20mins to get the pitch correct. After the corner bungee loops are tied and adjusted the InnerNet and Mid will mate and set up quickly.

1: First set up you Mid.
2: Then insert the Innernet and clip it to the Mid's inside apex loop and adjust center pole.
3: Note the distance from each corner of the Innernet to the outer Mid and the length of bungee loop needed to reach the corners.
4: Tie 3/32" bungee loops ( cord supplied) to the outside Mid's corner tieouts loops behind the linelock and then clip the bungee loops to the Innernet corners.
5: Adjust the tension on the Innernet floor by lengthening or shortening the bungee loops.

DO NOT OVER STRETCH THE INNERNET CORNERS

NOTE:
DO NOT OVER STRESS THE CORNER TIEOUTS.
ONLY PULL AND STAKE THEM TIGHT ENOUGH TO GENTLY FORM THE FLOOR SHAPE.
THE CORNERS ARE TRIPLE STITCHED AND ARE STRONG BUT WILL NOT WITHSTAND EXCESSIVE FORCE.
CORNER RIP OUTS ARE NOT COVERED BY WARRANTY.

NOTE: We highly advise you also use McNett ZipCare on the zipper when new and then every 30 days of use for a long life.

The InnerNets are sized to fit under all the MLD mids that are the same size or larger and can fit under many other shelters and tarps or they can be set up on their own.

For example, the Solo Innernet will fit the SoloMid, DuoMid, Speed Mid and SuperMid and can be set up under most Duo Tarps and the Solo Trailstar and full size TrailStar. (The Super InnerNet will only fit the SuperMid- It is too tall for the SpeedMid.)

The short elastic corners tieouts loops with hooks on the InnerNets are not long enough to fit any of the the shelters exactly in order to give you various pitch options in the Mid- higher off the ground or low.

The hooks can be moved up or down to create the best angle for various pitches- just slide the small hook higher or lower to change the angle.

In most cases when an Innernet is used under a Mid, you will need to add loops of bungee to extend the corner stake points for your particular shelters. A length of 3/32" bungee is supplied and will be cut into four loops to fit your setup.

The bungee loops can be staked down with the Mid stakes OR can be to tied to the Mid's corner tieouts OR can be staked independently.



NOTE:
DO NOT OVER STRESS THE CORNER TIEOUTS.
ONLY PULL AND STAKE THEM TIGHT ENOUGH TO GENTLY FORM THE FLOOR SHAPE.
THE CORNERS ARE TRIPLE STITCHED AND ARE STRONG BUT WILL NOT WITHSTAND EXCESSIVE FORCE.
CORNER RIP OUTS ARE NOT COVERED BY WARRANTY."

I think you got your inner second hand, right? If so, they may not have included the bungie cord; if so, you may need to get some from a craft or sewing shop. Once you have it set up in your Duomid, you can just leave it there.

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: re: Duomid inner question on 07/14/2013 10:15:23 MDT Print View

Stephen,
All of the above is good in theory, setting up an a flat and level lawn - but otherwise being able to adjust the corners to get things square and centered is a real plus in keeping the netting off of the sides of the 'mid. Likewise if you want to pitch your 'mid high for ventilation or low for storms.

Add in the orientation of the 'mid to a slope - perpendicular to the slope or perpendicular the "center of the earth"- and you will appreciate the ability to "hold" your bug net where it needs to be.

All that said, if you take the time to find the perfect tent site, bungees and fixed loops Will work.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
re: Re: re: Duomid inner question on 07/14/2013 11:22:02 MDT Print View

No doubt you're right, Greg, but the MLD system has worked for me for several years, multiple locations, in the Duomid, the Cricket and the Solomid.

Since the OP is leaving shortly for the JMT, it seemed good to me that a simple, non-complicated system, which the MLD is, might be best for her.

YMMV.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: re: Re: re: Duomid inner question on 07/14/2013 11:41:00 MDT Print View

Yeah...I've read and re-read the MLD site over and over...just couldn't seem to get it nice and square in there. I just spent an hour or so at the park with a friend fiddling with some stretchy cord and some line locks...I think I have a good system now.

Wow it does matter if the corners are square, doesn't it??!!

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
re: Re: re: Re: re: Duomid inner question on 07/14/2013 12:19:13 MDT Print View

"Wow it does matter if the corners are square, doesn't it??!!"

Absolutely! I always carry a t-square to ensure proper alignment! ;)

Seriously, I've never worried about it. Generally square, yes. Precisely square, ??? I really have no idea. I get the outer shaped tarp tight and square, and don't really worry about the inner net. It's the outer that has to stand up to wind, rain, etc., thus needs to be square and tight. The inner just needs to protect from bugs. Ron does warn against putting too much tension on the floor corners, so don't try to get the thing too tight.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: 40°N,-105°W (Near enough)
Re: Duomid inner question on 07/14/2013 12:20:26 MDT Print View

Jennifer - I'm a very visual person and even the best-written instructions leave me scratching my head a lot of the time. Any chance of posting pics to show how the inner looks inside, and how much space is between it and the Duomid walls?

Ryan Teale
(monstertruck) - F

Locale: Almost Yosemite
Duomid inner question on 07/14/2013 13:01:31 MDT Print View

I use some bungee/shock cord to attach the back two tie outs of the solo inner to the corner tie out loops on the duomid behind the line locks. Some tiny s-biners make this easier

For the front two tie outs of the solo inner I just use some tiny titanium stakes I picked up on ebay.

I find this setup to be pretty versatile when it comes to varying the pitch height and pitching on sloping or uneven ground.

For the upper attachment at the apex I have a length of cord permanently attached to the duomid. This cord has 3 loops tied into it spaced 1" or 2" apart. I clip the inner to one of the loops with another tiny s-biner.

Ryan

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
DuoMid on 07/14/2013 15:27:23 MDT Print View

Yeah having it square matters quite a bit for the tarp. Get those 4 stakes looking nice and square and then pop the pole in (and yes it erects a bit weird for a second as the suction makes it hard to fully inflate).

For the inner you'll want shockcord, even if you go with an adjustable setup. It works better. 1/8 or 3/32" stuff is good (QuestOutfitters.com). Don't go 1/16".

I have LineLoc3 tensioners at the corners of my inner (Zpacks sells 'em) but I virtually never touch them. I have clips at the outer ends of the shockcord which connect to the grosgain guy out loops on the mid. So the back two corners go to the back corners of the mid, while the front two corners go to the front corners of the mid via longer shock cordage (so the inner is at the back). Clip the inner to the guy out loop on the tarp (not directly to the stake), so you don't have to disconnect it when you pack up. This way the inner will already be pitched when you erect the mid, and you can set everything up with just 4 stakes. I carry more stakes so I can opt for a stronger setup as conditions warrant, but normally my shelter looks good after just 4 stakes and the rest is gravy.

Edited by dandydan on 07/14/2013 15:28:32 MDT.

jeffrey armbruster
(book) - M

Locale: Northern California
"Duomid inner question" on 07/14/2013 20:14:07 MDT Print View

edit

Edited by book on 07/14/2013 20:16:42 MDT.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: 40°N,-105°W (Near enough)
Apple style approach on 07/14/2013 20:34:37 MDT Print View

Jeffrey, I find your Apple analogy interesting. In the personal computing world, before Apple gained significant mindshare and started to influence the industry, user manuals were complex and third party companies made a small fortune doing basic tasks because non technically oriented customers either couldn't or wouldn't spend the time figuring out how to make the computer do what they wanted. These days Apple are accused by the 'cognoscenti' of taking too much control away from the user, and in the mobile market Google has capitalized on that with the Android platform.

So I'd have to say that Apple is the exception rather than the rule on highly intuitive instructions.

Most product designers are engineers first and foremost. To be a company owner, salesperson and / or marketer requires a totally different skillset. If a cottage company were to hire a CEO, CFO, VP of Sales and VP of Marketing, plus HR, they'd no longer be competitive costwise.

Sure, some of the instructions on cottage sites are more cryptic than we'd like. But I've yet to hear of anyone who was so stymied by the instructions that they gave up out of disgust and reverted to mainstream companies.

Consider also that Jennifer bought her inner used, so she may not have all the attachments that Ron supplies new.

Edit: And in the time it took me to write that, you pulled your entire post. Maybe you realized that your critique was wide of the mark. Regardless, my comments still stand - small companies that take a product oriented approach rarely cover the customer facing aspects as well as larger companies with a marketing department.

Edited by lotuseater on 07/14/2013 20:39:26 MDT.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Apple style approach on 07/15/2013 07:38:50 MDT Print View

Thanks guys...these are helpful posts. I usually am pretty good at visualizing stuff, but for some reason I was having a bit of a brain cramp with this one. Ron's instructions seem very straightforward, but gosh almighty I couldn't picture it!

I attached the shock cord to all four corners but was just wondering the best way to clip it to the mid itself. I originally used the mitten hooks supplied with the inner (I did actually get the solo cuben inner from Ron) but it didn't stay hooked to the mid when I packed up each night. I also added an adjustable toggle to the hook in the ceiling so I can adjust the height of the inner.

Next time I'm out is at the backpacker camp at Yosemite, so wish me luck...

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: 40°N,-105°W (Near enough)
My bad on 07/16/2013 12:18:04 MDT Print View

Serves me right for scanning threads on my phone. I thought you were having trouble setting up the duo inner inside the DuoMid. You had all the bits and bobs, but it still wasn't quite intuitive. How taut a setup of the solo inner did you manage? Mine could have been improved under the Cricket, but I was "practicing" at 3am under strong winds :-(