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Tanner M
(Tan68)
Re: Does This Pack Fit? on 07/16/2013 17:19:15 MDT Print View

Well, this is turning out to be a good thread. I have learned some things.

Matt Dirksen
(NamelessWay) - MLife

Locale: Mid Atlantic
Re: Re: Re: Does This Pack Fit? on 07/16/2013 17:24:34 MDT Print View

4"?

Wow. You are right- that really could be "over the top." Otoh, I'd still be curious to see the pack fully loaded down (with the weight of a few hundred fabulous BPL opinions), just to see how much it settles.

(I sure remember the Cassin. My cuticles cringe just thinking about getting all that darn Velcro separated just to switch out a hip belt. In my teen-aged days of outdoor retail, I still have this fuzzy recollection of a gear training workshop I attended in '87 where Wayne Gregory was there showing us how to fit his packs. Since REI had only just opened a couple of stores in the East back then, I guess our outfit was one of his bigger brick&mortar clients back then.)

I distinctly remember co-workers treated him like a rock star for some reason, having him sign catalogs & such.

I was more partial to Lowe's packs, I guess.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Does This Pack Fit? on 07/16/2013 18:23:48 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/15/2013 15:05:16 MST.

Michael Wainfeld
(Adox) - M

Locale: EastCoast
Camp Trails Pack on 07/16/2013 19:10:55 MDT Print View

DSC_0111

DSC_0102

My old Camp Trails, circa 1970 I think

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Camp Trails Pack on 07/16/2013 19:33:19 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/15/2013 15:05:49 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Camp Trails Pack on 07/16/2013 19:51:34 MDT Print View

Hey -

The hip belt is on the wrong side ;)

Michael Wainfeld
(Adox) - M

Locale: EastCoast
Hip Belt on 07/16/2013 20:23:57 MDT Print View

i know-I shoulda flipped the belt around before I took the photo! btw-3lb 5oz, and I remember it being a real easy pack to "live" out of.

DSC_0107

DSC_0108

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Easy Living on 07/16/2013 20:42:04 MDT Print View

Excellent observation.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Torso lenght confusion on 07/16/2013 21:33:35 MDT Print View

Delmar,

There was an interesting thread about a month ago discussing the issue of pack fits. Maybe someone can point you to that one. Anyway there are 2 basic uncertainties in sizing, different people wear packs differently, and pack companies seem to have different definitions of the "proper" torso range, as well as different ways of measuring said length. The latter can be effected by commercial interests as well, where pack companies try to squeeze all the torso length into a minimum number of fixed sizes.

A conclusion is that both the official measurement of your own torso length and the official recommended length of the pack should be taken with a huge grain of salt. What IS universal, however, is if you find a pack that fits you "perfectly", and then measures the precise distance from the middle of the belt to the shoulder strap attachment, then if you find another pack with exactly that measurement (you have to measure it yourself because most pack companies only give you "recommended", not actual measurements) then unless it is a radically difference style of pack, that pack will also have a "perfect" fit. You can call the companies and ask for these specific measurement, but I highly recommend you figure out THAT measurement.

From the picture (taking a rough guess) I would suggest you measure the distance of that pack from the middle of the belt to the shoulder attachment point, and add about 1 inch to that. I'm guessing that that number is close to your "true" torso length, but keep in mind that in order to match it to another pack you have to get the specific measurement, NOT the recommended torso length. Was that clear?

Sorry for the long winded explanation. The short one is that "recommended torso lengths" can be mostly BS!

As Dan said, the pack you show in the picture is definitely NOT too long. I think you can take that to the bank. I'm not worthy to lick Dan's old-timey boots on this issue, but hopefully I just gave you an idea of how to resolve the confusion a bit.

The pack you show is not too long, and if anything you might get away with a longer pack as well. I'd try one out if you can manage it - you don't need to necessarily ask for another pack to try - you could go to a store with a tape measure and try on other pack with the right length, and then ask the company in question to tell you the specific length.

Or else get a custom made one. :-)

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster) - F

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Interesting discussion! on 07/17/2013 08:58:53 MDT Print View

Thanks for all the replies! A long time I’ve wanted to learn the mysteries of pack fit and this thread is like a crash course. I’m no longer so focused on this one pack, I’m more interested in pack fit in general. It’s an interesting topic.

@ McHale. Apologies for misunderstanding the elbow measurement. My bad. Although as you observe elsewhere, the bottom of the bent elbow and the top of the iliac crest live in the same neighborhood. At least they surely do for me. I promise to get you and the list a photo of the loaded pack after a walk. I’m a working stiff, and can’t do it today. But as soon as I can, hopefully before the weekend. Thanks for weighing in!

@ Chan. Agreed, but look at how much we’re learning about pack fit by discussing it. Previously, I thought pack fit could be determined by a trained eye at REI alone (j/k). Now I’m learning there’s no substitute for the hike. (Makes returns more challenging!)

@ Mark. Teacher of the year award goes to you! Excellent info. I will make the measurement you suggest after work and report back.

Y’all might be interested in the laconic reply I got from GG themselves, in an email:

“We reviewed the pictures and the information you sent.  The crown pack does
not have the adjustment potential the Blaze pack has with the shoulder
straps.  From the looks of the picture you might want to loosen up the
straps on the top of the pack and the belt should fit with the center of the
side over the crest of the hip bone.  If information does not help, please
let us know.”

So she (the GG rep) doesn’t like how tight I’ve pulled the load lifters--if they should even be called such. Perhaps they are “top of pack snugger inners.”

When she says “the center of the side,” do you suppose she refers to the side of the body, forward of the iliac crest? In other words, if the iliac crest sits at about 4-5 o’clock and 7-8 o’clock on the body, is she talking about 3 and 9 o’clock? If so, then yes, the hip crest in those places is about half way (2”) down the 4" belt. (Previously I was referencing to the top of the iliac crest when I reported 1" from top of belt.)

HEY! I recognize that Camp Trails pack! That was my first pack as a kid!! Didn't they come in a shocking orange as well?

Edited by Bolster on 07/17/2013 09:28:00 MDT.

Clayton Mauritzen
(GlacierRambler) - M

Locale: NW Montana
Re: Interesting discussion! on 07/17/2013 14:37:15 MDT Print View

I had the Crown, and I carried it last spring and into summer until I decided to return it to REI after serious suspension failure in frameless mode. Despite being advertised as frameless up to 25 lbs., I only found the framesheet usable to about 30 lbs., and frameless not at all. (I realize that you haven't mentioned using it without the framesheet, but I do find it relevant given how GG advertises the pack.)

Based on the photos, I would agree with the consensus that it fits, but is on the short end. My worry is that, based upon my experience with the pack, the frame would collapse too much at heavier loads and really shorten the effective torso length very quickly. You don't have a lot of room for adjusting it.

FWIW, the reason GG advertises the torso length as so long is that they are measuring from where the shoulder straps attach to the bottom of the hipbelt. That measurement would be 19.5" on the pack, thus the reason you have a couple of inches of wrap with a approx. 19" torso. Of course, when you measure your torso, you do it from the iliac crest to the C7 vertebra, which usually equates to the middle of the hipbelt depending on individual preference.

Even given this discrepancy, I still don't get how they could advertize this size all the way up to 21". Personally, the variety of misleading marketing claims surrounding this pack has soured me on the company a bit.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Interesting discussion! on 07/17/2013 16:30:15 MDT Print View

"When she says “the center of the side,” do you suppose she refers to the side of the body, forward of the iliac crest? "

The center of the side of the belt I think. That is about right, but different people have different shapes and likes so this is not always true. But basically, while I don't know the precise question you asked, that response doesn't seem to have too much actual content.

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster) - F

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Response on 07/18/2013 00:46:01 MDT Print View

@ Mauritzen: Yes, Clayton, I have studied your several posts on the failure of the pack when frameless, and its limits when framed. They come up quickly on any internet search on the Crown pack. I thought your criticisms were very well articulated and I read them over several times. They're also somewhat rare, as praise for the Crown is overall high (when it fits). Interesting explanation of GG's unique measurement system, thanks.

@ Millonas: I think so: "Center of side of belt" makes sense, but again unique to GG as they don't reference off the top of the iliac crest as seems standard elsewhere. Regards what I asked them: I asked whether they thought the pack fit, and basically repeated my original post at the top of this thread to GG, along with some additional measurements, expected max weights, and also sent them the photo. I also referred GG to this thread, if they were interested in the discussion. I felt their response defined the words "laconic" and "oblique," but they were also prompt and polite.

Edited by Bolster on 07/18/2013 00:55:56 MDT.

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster) - F

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Post walk report w/ 25 lbs on 07/21/2013 20:35:07 MDT Print View

Report as requested (finally!):

I slipped away for a 5-mile walk with 25 lbs in the Crown pack. (That would be my pack weight for a 4-night trip). It was filled with my regular gear, and about six cans of fruit added for ballast. I didn’t get any undue weight on either hips or shoulders; no hot spots; the weight seemed spread evenly. I fiddled and adjusted as I went, and the pack seemed plenty comfortable. I could transfer the weight to the hips or to the shoulders with ease, by taking in here and letting out there. I realize this is a short hike but that’s all I found time for. I met my wife at the end of the hike and asked her to take a photo so you could diagnose possible “after-hike-droopiness” as mentioned above. What do you think?Pack After Hike

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Post walk report w/ 25 lbs on 07/21/2013 20:44:36 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/15/2013 15:06:58 MST.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Re: Post walk report w/ 25 lbs on 07/21/2013 20:46:24 MDT Print View

Looks like a textbook fit.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
fit on 07/21/2013 21:13:03 MDT Print View

It really depends on if its comfortable for you.

Plenty of people like to wear their hipbelt lower than normal, and need longer torso due to it.

Some like it a bit high, with no discernable weight on their shoulders at all.

Because packs fit a several inch range, everyones fit is a bit different.

If you can possibly wear it higher, if you desire, to get weight off your shoulders, you have nothing to worry about.

Theres always tradeoffs. Heavier weights will slide down more and make the torso seem shorter, but the larger size packs are heavier too. What you carry most of the time, is usually used to determine whats best overall

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: fit on 07/21/2013 21:37:12 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/15/2013 15:06:19 MST.

Mark Ries
(mtmnmark) - M

Locale: IOWAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Re: Re: fit on 07/21/2013 22:12:16 MDT Print View

I agree nice fit I think you found a pack that works for you with the weights you want to carry

Clayton Mauritzen
(GlacierRambler) - M

Locale: NW Montana
Re: Re: Re: fit on 07/21/2013 23:24:34 MDT Print View

Looks great. If you like it, go for it!