Does This Pack Fit?
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Mark Ries
(mtmnmark) - M

Locale: IOWAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Re: Does This Pack Fit? on 07/15/2013 23:51:09 MDT Print View

That looks like an OK fit in my book

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Pack Fit on 07/16/2013 00:06:08 MDT Print View

"I hate to disagree with you, but most of the external framed packs that I dealt with never had load lifters, whatsoever. My 30 year old Super Tioga in the basement does not, nor did most of the primary brands in the market back then."

Lets think this out. On most external frames the shoulder staps connect inside of the outer frame tubes, usually 3 or 4 inches away from the frame. So where would you connect the load lifter? I once saw an external where the load lifter connected to the pack bag; didn't seem like a good design. I don't doubt there might have been some externals with lifters, but probably as Matt suggests in later years when companies were trying to compete with the popularity of internals.

An effective load lifter needs to connect to a high frame above the shoulder strap connection point, where we get the 45% angle. McHale's P&G extensions and By-pass Harness work extremely well for heavier loads. But for the kind of loads we typically carry as lightweight hikers and the typical light packs on the market, most load lifters aren't going to be very effective. They might pull the pack closer to the back, but they aren't going to work like a real load lifter on the heavy hauler internals.

We can speculate all we want about the OP's fit, but until he puts all his gear, food, water, and fuel in it; and goes for an all day hike; then reports back with good pictures -- it is just conjecture. The pack looks short to me, but it might be okay.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
re on 07/16/2013 01:07:41 MDT Print View

My current zpacks pack fits about like that, I had another pack before that was actually too long for my torso though.

When its too long it feels like the packs moves around too much, and one too short feels like a school backpack full of books. The pack thats short has a more nimble feel to it, and rides a little higher on the back. I like this feel personally.

I have no idea what im even talking about, but I hope you get something out of it.

Like Nick Gatel says, use the pack, try a new pack, eventually you will find what works.

Matt Dirksen
(NamelessWay) - MLife

Locale: Mid Atlantic
Re: don't carry it- wear it! on 07/16/2013 05:34:22 MDT Print View

"Like Nick Gatel says, use the pack, try a new pack, eventually you will find what works."

Just like shoes!

I guess in the 20th century, we carried our backpacks.

Nowadays, UL finally allows us to actually "wear" them.

Matt

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Does This Pack Fit? on 07/16/2013 07:55:11 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/15/2013 15:01:45 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Does This Pack Fit? on 07/16/2013 09:23:54 MDT Print View

"Funny, my Dads old Kelty external frame had load lifters to account for the non adjustable frame. Of course, that was in 1964. When did internal frame packs hit the market?"

You may want to read this. Kelty Packs

All the brochure pictures were from the early 60's -- probably 1963. I grew up with Kelty packs and don't remember any kind of load lifters available from Kelty or the after market. And there were several companies that made add-on stuff for Kelty packs, especially A16. But it is possible someone added load lifters.

The Trailwise external packs had what looked like load lifters, these were adjustable shoulder straps that attached to cross frame. This was the only attachment for the top of the straps.

Early Coleman Peak 1 packs with the plastic frames DID have load lifters. Probably late 70's or early 80's.

In case Ike pops up with his Aarn stuff, he might want to check out Bal-Paks from the late 70's or early 80's.

Supposedly Greg Lowe made the first internal pack in 1967. I didn't pay much attention to internal packs in the early days, but don't remember load lifters until Gregory released the Cassin in the late 70's or early 80's. Internals were mostly used by alpine climbers and not very popular until 1984 when Colin Fletcher released the Complete Walker III. Fletcher made internals popular. My 80's vintage Mountain Smith Frostfire internal had lifters.

Richard Fischel
(RICKO) - F
where you are wearing teh hip belt on 07/16/2013 09:41:34 MDT Print View

can you try wearing the pack so that the hip belt is more centered on the top of your hip bone. if you raise the pack up an inch or two this way, the geometry will look better.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Does This Pack Fit? on 07/16/2013 10:00:36 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/15/2013 15:03:12 MST.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Does This Pack Fit? on 07/16/2013 10:28:05 MDT Print View

Dave,

It is hard to see the details. But it looks like the Trailwise. Straps connect at the bottom of the frame and then loop over the mesh panel and are connected to the cross frame with adjustable straps. I may be wrong. Looks like one of the newer frames that were made after Mr. Kelty sold the company.

Coleman Peak 1 below (from the Complete Walker III illustration)

coleman peak 1

Tanner M
(Tan68)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Does This Pack Fit? on 07/16/2013 10:55:33 MDT Print View

Great!
Models A, B, & C.
They were order by numbers before order by numbers was cool. Model A compartmentalizes misery, B welcomes it, and C wallows in misery.

Looks like side compression straps hadn't been invented. Reading about the baffles as a sort of substitute makes you realize how handy they can be. I don't recall side compression straps on these types of bags. I only had very little experience with these frames, though.

dan mchale
(wildlife) - MLife

Locale: Cascadia
Trailwise on 07/16/2013 13:04:46 MDT Print View

Not sure if this is stealing this thread away but here's a link to a pic of a Trailwise external harness. http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co=1&weiid=8777923&lang=En

The harness was completely free-floating behind the mesh panel like Nick was describing. That's where the height adjustment of the base of the shoulder pads were, behind the mesh, and the height adjustment straps anchored at the base of the frame behind the mesh I think. The top of the pads connected to the frame via the load lifters. The straps behind the mesh created an X with the right shoulder pad anchor point being on the opposite side of the frame at the base and vice versa.

As Nick said, Gregory's first load lifter pack came out in the late 70's or so. I remember seeing the first one about then. Before that, Gregory made externals called Sunbird. I sold quite a few of those BITD, from the early 70s for a couple years. That company collapsed, rumor has it because of a bad magazine review, and Wayne made a comeback with his Cassin. I'm trying to remember who he worked for in between those ventures.....I think is was a well known outdoor clothing company at the time.....it will come to me......here company, come on, here cute little company.....

Here is a link showing Wayne and his wife wearing Sunbirds. I did not know he worked for A-16 before that! http://www.adventure16.com/content.asp?itemid=468

Gregory history;

http://www.inov8.au.com/compass/gregoryhistory.html

I think the company I was trying to remember could be Gerry.

Edited by wildlife on 07/16/2013 13:52:22 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Trailwise on 07/16/2013 14:26:19 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/15/2013 15:04:20 MST.

Tanner M
(Tan68)
Re: Re: Trailwise on 07/16/2013 14:33:32 MDT Print View

We stopped having to drag out meat home from the forest.

I don't know. I was told internal packs were better because they weren't quite so rigid and moved a bit with the person. I may have been told BS.

dan mchale
(wildlife) - MLife

Locale: Cascadia
off with the head on 07/16/2013 14:52:14 MDT Print View

Off the top of my head; there is Zpacks, Luxurylite, Daryl at this website with his creations, and probably much more we just don't get to see. The concept is not dead. I would love to design an external.....maybe in the coming decade. I have plenty of ideas to put together. I've certainly modified enough of them. Anyone remember Gregory's Kelty Conversion kit that made it possible to put his Sunbird belt on a Kelty? I used to sell those retail back in the early 70s. There are quite a few hunting packs using molded Carbon sheets as external hybrids.

Edited by wildlife on 07/16/2013 14:53:28 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Modularity on 07/16/2013 14:54:26 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/15/2013 15:03:46 MST.

dan mchale
(wildlife) - MLife

Locale: Cascadia
all elbows on 07/16/2013 15:27:51 MDT Print View

Just to get back on topic, I noticed the OP thinks I have an elbow measurement involved in my spine measurement method. That is not the case. There is an elbow measurement but it is not for measuring the spine.

The OP's pack is certainly not too long. Too bad the overall frame can't be slightly longer while keeping the harness height the same. I would get the next size up or at least try it if the harness is no more than an inch higher. The OP say that with 27 lbs in it that it does such and such. Those are the pics we need to see.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Does This Pack Fit? on 07/16/2013 15:31:49 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 11/15/2013 15:02:24 MST.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Find out on 07/16/2013 15:47:39 MDT Print View

Go hiking for a full day with the max weight youd ever stuff in that pack

Thats the ONLY way to be sure

Rather than ask BPLers

;)

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Trailwise on 07/16/2013 15:51:09 MDT Print View

"What ever happened to the external pack? Why did it lose it's love."

One person caused it: Colin Fletcher.

In The Complete Walker(1968) and The New Complete Walker (1974) he extolled the virtues of Trailwise packs, Pivetta and Easy Hiker boots. That put those products on the map.

In The Complete Walker III (1984), his new favorite pack was the Gregory Cassin. Wayne Gregory will tell you he owes his success to Fletcher.

Maybe I should mention that Dan McHale thru hiked the JMT unsupported as a teenager in 11 days using an external frame -- a Camp Trails, I think. Maybe that is why he learned how to make a pack that fits and carries correctly :)

dan mchale
(wildlife) - MLife

Locale: Cascadia
Camp Trails on 07/16/2013 15:56:09 MDT Print View

Not sure what you mean there Nick. My Camp Trails external was plenty comfortable for that trip - I'm sure better than what many carry today. I only started with 40 lbs. It really had nothing to do with me making packs. I still have the one my brother had and still look at it fondly. I never had any problems carrying my CT. After I wore that pack out I switched to a Kelty BB5. Making packs came later after watching my buddies at Wilderness Experience start up. I only started because it looked fun and I wanted to try an internal with a better full wrap belt. The Camp trail frame was cool - made of a Magnesium alloy. It's pretty featherweight. People wanted light stuff back then too. All the nonsense about traditional backpacking is nonsense. Not everyone was dumb back then.

Getting back to that Crown; that's far too big of a jump to the next size. I think Bob Gross mentioned getting the hipbelt slightly higher. Otherwise, it would be good for all of us to see the pack with the actual weight in it. In the most basic sense the fit is OK but the information we have is limited.

Edited by wildlife on 07/16/2013 17:21:37 MDT.