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Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Re: Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/04/2013 13:00:25 MDT Print View

"It weighs nothing." Heresy! Everything weighs something. We are counting ounces here aren't we?

I'm Joe
(imjoe) - F
Re: Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/04/2013 13:09:23 MDT Print View

I agree. Everything weighs something. So 2-3 wet wipes and a titanium trowel probably add up to an ounce. I don't need either and it's an ounce of savings that didn't cost me a dime.

Edited by imjoe on 08/04/2013 13:17:14 MDT.

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Re: Re: Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/04/2013 13:35:14 MDT Print View

"It weighs nothing. Heresy! Everything weighs something. We are counting ounces here aren't we?"

LOL - Grams

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/04/2013 13:36:18 MDT Print View

touche.

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/04/2013 16:46:56 MDT Print View

Okay here is some gram counting stuff you might find useful or maybe not. At any rate it might give you some ideas.

This Everyday list/stuff is probably the minimum I would go with.
Button compass is enough if I am familiar with where I am or AT etc.
Just a general direction finder works for me but you have to check them in the store as some are way way off. A real compass will weigh about 1oz so still not a deal breaker.

The list does not include TP, Hand Sanitizer or wet wet wipes or a comb or deodorant or a trowel. I would add in TP and had sanitizer prior depending on length.

The med kit is also pretty much min and both are in cuben stuff sacks.

The key chain rig, like I said lives with me all the time and weighs 1.6 oz.
I lost my little Swiss army knife but frankly to me about the only thing its good for is the tweezers toothpick and scissors. The blade is really too small for me anyway.

The one knife I have been carrying for probably 30 years and replaced I dont know how many times is the full size knife with the saw and scissors. Cant remember the name but mine weighs 3 oz.

For you gram counters 3 wet wipes in a sandwich bag that are actually wet weigh .6 oz. Added this in there because your GF will make that demand - LOL. Just stuff them in her pack.

3 dried wet wipes weigh less than 4 grams. Read someone here that was doing that and they come in handy even dry.

I created the tiny altoids kit to have something I could just stick in my pocket with a few odds and end in it.

The tube was setup more for a hunting pack but the compass is in the bottom so you can just flip it upsidedown and get a direction without tearing it apart or opening it up.

Both of those have a mix of survival stuff and some minor med stuff, IE if I am going out swamping hogs I might just grab one of them and the quickclot and a sawyer extractor and not take any other medical stuff.

I dont take both of these at the same time since they are redundant.

Everyday stuff - 4 oz, No trowel, no TP no hand sanitizer. I dont know where micro headlamp is so shoeing this micro LED light. I think I will upgrade to a Cree LED which is about 10X brighter. Libman microfiber cloth, micro light, soap, tooth powder, sunscreen, button compass, 3 dry wet wipes, lighter, toothbrush and floss, bug juice. In the upper right is a quickclot sports silver that does not normally go in my hiking gear. I usually pack that in my hunting pack, IE not hiking but at any rate it weighs 1.2oz by itself. I swap this stuff back and forth.

 photo everyday_zps9ab26540.jpg

Medical - 2 oz
Gauze pad, sponge (probably not needed) moleskin, tape, 3 suture strips, pills of various sorts, micro super glue, 2 band-aids, neosporin, Visene.

 photo med_zps96d8f032.jpg

Small Altoids Can - 1 oz button compass not shown but it fits.
SS wire, WP matches, Striker, 2 surture strips, 1 exatco blade, 1 needle, 1 safety pin, 2 fish hooks, micro cord, wet fire (needs to be occasionally replaced), 2 aquamira water tabs, button compass, Micro magnifying glass, Antibiotic, an aspirin or two and maybe a sudafed.

 photo altoids_zpsf79d851d.jpg

Tube Kit - 1.4 oz
SS wire, Micro Mirror, micro magnifying glass, gorrilla tape, wp matches, striker rod
micro pencil, 2 aquamira tabs, full size utility razor blade wrapped in alum from a pop can, safety pin, 2 Fish hooks, 2 suture strips, micro cord, button compass on the bottom facing down, an aspirin or two and maybe a sudafed.

 photo tube1_zpsfd098323.jpg

 photo tube2_zps26a243e3.jpg

Edited by tammons on 08/04/2013 17:41:40 MDT.

I'm Joe
(imjoe) - F
Re: Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/04/2013 17:56:11 MDT Print View

I found some of these at a surplus store. The paste is dispensed from the brush. They a pretty tiny and good for at least a few days.
toothbrush

Matches and a striker? Why both? And the micro magnifying glass?

Why the fish hooks?

Although the idea of it all fitting into the altoid contained is novel it just adds weight. Why not just a zip-lock?

Thanks for the pictures and the weights. My kits will be pretty similar in simplicity.

Edited by imjoe on 08/04/2013 17:57:20 MDT.

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/04/2013 19:02:26 MDT Print View

"I found some of these at a surplus store. The paste is dispensed from the brush. They a pretty tiny and good for at least a few days."

Neat will have to check that out. That said toothpaste is heavier than tooth powder so it may be a wash but thats just one less thing to get lost. My toothbrush weighs 11 grams and I was thinking about drilling out the handle - LOL, its contagious. I think I got it at walgreens. The tooth powder container is full and weighs 15 grams. Half that would be good for 2-3 days so maybe 10 grams.

"Matches and a striker? Why both? And the micro magnifying glass?"

I like to carry at least 3-4 ways to start a fire. Lighter, WP matches, striker, magnifying glass. People have lambasted me on the micro magnifying glass, but it will start a fire in full sun as I have done it and it works for magnifying like if you need to check out your skin although these are tiny lenses.
These came out of old bad camera lenses I had laying around so they are pretty high quality glass. The one in the altoids can weighs 1.6 grams. The one in the tube is bigger and heavier at 3 grams.

"Why the fish hooks?"

Spectra Line and hook to go fishing. Remember one time I was in NC somewhere wandering along the AT and came upon a nice stream with some trout and wished I had anything to throw in the water. Hooks and line are just one of those typical survival tools, although if really in a survival situation there are better ways to catch fish if you have the time.

2 fish hooks weighs .25 grams. The line is multiuse.

"Although the idea of it all fitting into the altoid contained is novel it just adds weight. Why not just a zip-lock?"

It is perfect to just drop in my pocket any time, and thats why I did it like that.

With all the other crap you carry in your pockets a plastic bag would not do. That said the small tin weighs 13 grams and wont come apart in your pocket, IE needles hooks, Xacto blades etc and everything just sort of fits so it was a no brainer and I dont care about 1/2 ounce in my pocket. I usually put a ranger band around it to make sure it does not open up. There is probably a small plastic container somewhere in the world that is lighter but I have not fond it yet.

In comparison a freezer bag with a small rubber band weighs 6 grams. Sandwich bag 3 grams so you could save some weight, but there are some sharp objects in there at least there are in mine.

If I am out and really have to use a small compass, I prefer the tube setup.

"Thanks for the pictures and the weights. My kits will be pretty similar in simplicity."

Sure, gave me a chance to go through some of my gear again.

If you are interested in some more photos of some of my MYOG gear...
MYOG M90 Climashield jacket I made. Going to redo the sleeve ends.

http://s195.photobucket.com/user/tammons3/library/Jacket?sort=4&page=1

M90 Modular Quilt. This was the first one I built with 3.7 oz XP and a 5oz Apex liner.
This one has ties that would not stay tied.

I sold the 3.7 XP quilt and built a M50 2.5oz Apex shell/quilt with nacro biner ties to hold the liners in. It has a zipper on the side to insert the liners. Plan to build a silk covered 1.8 primaloft liner soon. It should weigh 9 oz.

http://s195.photobucket.com/user/tammons3/library/New%20Mod%20Quilt?sort=4&page=1

Couple of Tarps although I have 2 more besides that are not MYOG.

The first one is a cut cut 1.1 oz Silnylon hammock tarp that is 13.5 feet long and
weighs 12.5 oz total with all the zpacks lines. It basically takes 2 packs of 50' line to make the tieouts. One for the ridgeline and the other for the stake tieouts. that is set up just after I finished it before seam sealing checking out the pitch.

The 2nd one is a SUL sil hammock tarp type I was trying out. 14' long and 5'4" wide one piece of cloth. It sagged too much so I gave it a slight cat cut around the edges with pointed ends and that fixed it. This one does not have a ridge line seam. I think it weighs 9 oz now with no cordage, but the other cat cut tarp has much better coverage so this one got shelved.

http://s195.photobucket.com/user/tammons3/library/Tarps?sort=4&page=1

There is more of my stuff scattered around in photobucket, water setups, kitchen etc

Delmar O'Donnell
(Bolster) - F

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Re: Re: Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/04/2013 23:18:41 MDT Print View

"Every time I get new suggestions the total cost keeps creeping up. It's gotten to the point where I need to remind myself of my original goal of remaining cheapish while staying light and not making too many sacrifices."

And yet...when I pointed out an effective low cost alternative (Grease Pot) you found a reason to set the recommendation aside: "pot lifter won't fit." (Which isn't true.)

So, maybe you're like a lot of us...want cheap, light, and cool. Choose two.

Edited by Bolster on 08/04/2013 23:21:12 MDT.

I'm Joe
(imjoe) - F
Pot Lifter on 08/05/2013 05:07:17 MDT Print View

Easy Delmar... Not every choice is based on if it is cool or not. Just like not every decision is based on whether it is cheaper and lighter. First of all you say that a pot lifter will fit in the pot. That may be true but can it fit in the pot with everything including 6oz of fuel? That was a stipulation. The only response that mentioned the possibility of it fitting with that much fuel mentioned hacking it down to 2 inches. No thanks. That is useless at that point in my mind. I'd rather not risk burning myself or spilling hot water and wasting the fuel it cost to boil it. Its just not practical if you have to make it so small. Second, the simplicity of a built in handle has value. I don't have to worry about losing it and it is easier to use. I appreciate the advice and look forward to any more input you may have. I don't think this is the reaction I should get when I don't do exactly what is suggested though. Everyone has their own preferences and in the end will do their own thing. Obviously Troy has suggested many things that I have a different opinion on but he keeps coming back with more great ideas. I appreciate that a lot and would be glad to have many more people willing to give so much input even if my gear list doesn't conform 100% to their suggestions.

Edited by imjoe on 08/05/2013 06:29:34 MDT.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
pot on 08/05/2013 08:09:27 MDT Print View

Everyone likes something different.
Thats why we have so many flavors of ice cream.

I didnt like the grease pot. Its too large diameter to slowly pour water from into a freezer bag, because it doesnt have a pour spout molded into the side. You either dump it, or it runs down the side of the pot.

When someone else is trying to hold the freezer bag, its a problem. You are likely to get hot water on them.

Ive said it numerous times. For two person use, $59 for evernew 1.3L with built in handle was the best $59 I ever spent.

Although for the weight, Id just as soon take a solo kit and boil water twice really. An extra 8 min isnt a big deal.

Not everyone agrees with me.

Edited by livingontheroad on 08/05/2013 08:11:47 MDT.

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/05/2013 08:46:50 MDT Print View

Well there are a lot of ways to skin a cat, and as we all know, some people on the internet argue issues and some dont. I also could have brought up well, why not carry a 2 oz cookset and save 6 ounces while gram counting other items I like to carry but it all comes down to personal preference. I probably have 6 cook pots and only really like 2 of them while all along avoiding the grease pot - LOL.

FYI I just bought a Jam 70 after arguing with you about your Jam 50 - LOL. Caught one new for $65 so too cheap to pass up. The Jam II I have now had about 8 oz stripped out of it so I figure I can also strip that much weight out of a jam 70. Besides $65 new and 70L shipped was too good to pass up. Should end up at about 23 oz.

A few years ago, when campmor was selling their budget down bags for cheap, you could put together a 12# pack with a down bag for pretty cheap.

Now things are a little more expensive but you can still buy a solo big 4 under 6# and less than $400 if you buy used and MYOG so here is another buying scenario.

Recently I bought a used GG miraposa for $120, 20oz, a used contrail for $110, 28oz, and combine that with a walmart $10 pad, and a used 30dF Montbell sleeping bag for $200, 22oz and you end up at 4.875# and $450.

Build a MYOG M50 5XP 25-30dF quilt that cost about $90 in materials and weighs 18oz and you knock off $110 and 4 oz and are at $340 and 4.675#.
With 5# of additional stuff that would put you at about 10# base.

Thats about as cheap as you can go UL big 4.

With your additional $410 you saved, buy your stoic down jacket and a used double rainbow or other cheaper 2 person tent and piece together the rest of your gear CHEAP
like at the swap shop, salvation army etc.

There are several cheaper sub 4# 2 person tents that have full mesh for around $150, like the spitfire 2. Just saw a spitfire 2 on sale for $145. On those Eureka tents you have to replace the factory steel stakes with titanium and that shaves a lot of weight.

4# sounds like a lot but the spitfire is full mesh and full rainfly with a heavy floor and you can split the weight with the GF so 2# each and save some $. No Vestibule though.

There are others also.

I think my favorite 2 person tent I had was a Sierra designs Velox 2. A lot of netting, 2 doors, free standing, decent vestibule, bullet proof materials, heavy floor and weighed about 4#. I think I bought it on close out for $175 or so. Not made any more though.

Their new version seems to be the Sierra Designs Sirius 2 Person tent that weighs 4# also. Its was on sale for about $120 but everybody is out of stock.

You might want to look around at spadout. Lots of gear deals right now.

I'm Joe
(imjoe) - F
Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/05/2013 09:47:55 MDT Print View

Nice find on the 70l Jam. Those are the kind of deals I'm hoping to run across to keep my costs down.

So after doing some more thinking and a brief discussion with my gf I think I'm going to ditch the 2 person tent idea. She would at most do an over nighter by the sounds of things. So that starts a whole new conversation. I saw the zpacks tent it's light but has no tub floor. Yeah you can add one but that adds weight and cost. I also saw the SMD Lunar Solo and it seems pretty nice. Tarptent also has a few good options. Am I missing any that I should give some attention?

Thanks for the heads up on spadout. Never knew about the site.

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/05/2013 11:37:12 MDT Print View

Found it over on Whiteblaze.

That makes it easier and lighter and just buy a cheap 2 person tent.

Overnight you wont have much stuff anyway. If she decides she is into it you can ebay the old tent and upgrade to a SUL 2 person tent later. You can find quite a few quality 5# 2 person tents on spadout at around $100.

Actually now just solo, you might want to look a lighter smaller pack in the 20oz range or so but you need to watch your equipment volume or you could strip out you Jam to amke it lighter but I would try to find a jam used personally.

My Jam 2 that was stripped out was used but basically like new and $50.

At any rate you can buy all your stuff then buy a pack it will fit into, or buy a pack then dont buy anything that wont fit.

Synthetics are more bulky than down and the main reason I just bought a 70L pack.
I cant get all my winter gear into 3000 CI, and a jam 70 is a lot lighter than my old Kelty Alpine pack at 3.5#.

That said Loner hiked the entire AT with a 20L pack and budget gear and you have watched that gear video I am sure. That video is a good lesson on what you can do as a gram counter on a budget.

Here is another one. I know you are not into walmart pots, but this is a 1.3qt cup with handle for $3 and weighs 3.6 oz.

The small cup is .7qts and cost $2 and weighs 2.6oz - LOL.
Cant hardly argue with $2 or $3 either way and it has a nice non drip lip.
I might try to come up with a folding handle for it or you could just add a SS wire bail handle.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/IMUSA-Aluminum-Mug/15040696

Thats a nice tent but takes a hiking pole to set it up so you would need to add a tent pole. Also depending on how tall you are, you might not fit. Also a lot of other tents are in that category, Contrail, Hexamid etc.

Right the Hexamid has a mesh floor that would eventually need some work I am sure.
You use a tub floor inside of it.

The popular 1 person UL tarptent now is the Moment. I have not tried one.

You could also buy a Etowah 6x10 tarp - 9oz $60, then MYOG a bathtub GC and bivy with mesh and that should weigh about 22oz. With Zpacks cord and titanium stakes That would cost a total of about $130 or so.

Personally one day I want to build a 6x10 cat cut cuben tarp at about 5oz and a 5oz cuben M50 bivy, Zpacks cord and titanium stakes - would cost about $300 in materials and would weigh in at about 12oz total.

A spitfire 1 is pretty solid and cheap. You can find them occasionally at around $90-100 but you have to buy titanium stakes then it will weigh about 48 oz. That said it has a full fly and full bug netting.

They also make a Eureka Solitare and there is one in the outlet now for $35-45. Its basically a very small Bivy Tent with poles, but the poles are crap. First thing you have to replace the poles and prebend Alum Dac poles from Quest, and you can not sit up in it and has no exterior vestibule although the screen top does have a zipper in it and it is a long tent. I think it weighs about 38oz with titanium stakes and some trimming. That is also a full net tent with a full rain fly but basically just a tube.
Has a heavy duty floor.

Edited by tammons on 08/05/2013 12:21:33 MDT.

I'm Joe
(imjoe) - F
Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/05/2013 12:42:33 MDT Print View

I watched a couple of Loner's videos. Good stuff. I could lose the better part of a day on youtube if I'm not careful.

I checked out the Moment and saw it weighed in at 35oz while the Moment DW was an ounce lighter... I also only found the Moment using your link. It doesn't apear on the product list. Discontinued?

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/05/2013 13:14:44 MDT Print View

I hear ya.

When I started following Loner last year he was about on video 90+ and I spent an entire weekend watching every video wishing I was tagging along - LOL.

Not sure on the Moment as I am into hammocks now and have not been following tents much except for a few exotics, like the terra nova laser ultra cuben and a few other exotic tents in that category. I think Terra novas goal was to produce a tent, sleeping bag and pad under 1 kg.

Also lightheart tents. People like them but I never used one. She makes cuben fiber tents also and makes them by hand here in the USA. Think she is taking a break on the cuben tents. They cost around $500 and weigh about 20 oz. You would also need a couple of carbon fiber poles for her tents since no Hiking poles.

http://www.lightheartgear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7&products_id=15&zenid=a2d712855764f555bd4dd7ae3ae1344b

I'm Joe
(imjoe) - F
Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/05/2013 13:49:24 MDT Print View

Ok. I found my answer. The DW is new for 2013. Looks really versatile.

Well there goes 6 oz...

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/05/2013 14:32:36 MDT Print View

Doesnt have to.

6x10 Tarp - 9oz, stakes and line 2oz, MYOG M50 bivy 5oz, MYOG polycro bathtub GC 3oz, MYOG Climashield quilt 18oz, Walmart blue pad 10oz, Terra Nova Laser 35 Pack 16oz
Total 4#. Smaller is lighter.
Cost about $375 new.

The lightheart solo std weighs 27 oz. You will most likely end up with hiking poles eventually.

A used Contrail is probably the lightest cheapest way to go for a tent - $125 or so used, but you have to jump on them when they come up for sale. The contrail weighs 28 oz if I remember right and only takes one pole so add 2 oz for a carbon fiber pole.

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Proposed Gear List for Ultralight Newbie on 08/05/2013 15:15:46 MDT Print View

Another big 4 to blow your budget - LOL
$710 and 3 pound big 4.
Add another $100+ for a down quilt.
You can do everything else in 3# in 45d weather if you skimp.

Base weight would be about 6#.
With 2 days of skimpy food (1.5# per day) and 2L of H2o - about 13# total.

Zpacks Cuben 6x9 Tarp 5oz, M50 bivy 5oz, 45d climashield quilt 14oz, Neoair small and GG 1/8 pad 11oz, Bathtub polycro GC 3oz, Zpacks Zero Large with 3 pockets 6oz, Titanium Stakes and Zpacks cord 3oz.

Troy Ammons
(tammons) - F - M
Another one on 08/05/2013 19:20:48 MDT Print View

This is a bare bones Summer almost SUL ground setup from gear I have with no cuben or crazy expensive stuff. Think I am missing something on this list, oh yeah the silk covered 9 oz liner quilt that I am working on soon. I have not made that yet but the primaloft is coming. Already have the silk. It will be used in my system quilt.
Have not used this poncho tarp and bivy in a while.

At any rate this is a 6# base weight pack for everything. Summer only though.
A 25dF quilt would push it up to 6.5#. To break the 5# barrier I would have to go with a Zpacks zero, a cuben tarp and a M50/cuben bivy more cuben and a few other odds and ends. Still the difference between 5# and 6# or even 7# is nil really. Over on the SUL forum someone just commented the difference between 5# and 7# is just a good mornings dump.

Cost is about $680 for everything.

PACK
Terra Nova Laser 20 11.5oz $70.00
Dry Bag 1oz $3.00

SHELTER
Campmor Poncho Tarp 5x10 9oz $70.00

Titanium Stakes 2 oz $20.00
Zpacks Cord 1oz $26.00
1.25oz Tyvek bivy 8oz $30.00
Bathtub polycro GC 2-3oz $10.00

SLEEPING
SILK 1.8 Primaloft silk liner quilt 9oz $50.00
GG 1/8 pad 3oz $20.00
prolite pad 8oz $60.00

COOK AND WATER
Fosters cook kit 2.5oz $10.00
Ursak minor 2.5oz $50.00
(2) 1L platy 2oz $20.00
Poly cone filter and bottle 1oz $12
Aquamira tablets .5oz $20.00

PACKED CLOTHES
Shirt 4oz $5.00
Fleece Beanie 1.1oz $5.00
Fleece mitts 1.2oz $5.00
Spare socks pair 2.2oz $15.00
Montbell UL down jacket 9 oz $125.00
M50 2.5 apex hood 1.5oz $20.00
Frogg Toggs Emergency Poncho 2.8oz $7.00
UTILITY AND EVERYDAY 4oz $20
MEDICAL 2oz $10
EMER Tube 1.4oz $??

Edit: The old Terra Nova Laser 20 is the one that Loner used on his thru just in case you are interested. It is a top loader and on sale at campsaver for $44, just enough not to qualify for free shipping. It weighs 7.5 oz. They also make a cuben fiber version that cost about $135 that weighs 3.5 oz.

Edited by tammons on 08/05/2013 19:59:00 MDT.

Drew Jay
(drewjh) - M

Locale: Central Coast
Tent on 08/06/2013 02:18:21 MDT Print View

I still contend that the Six Moon Designs Lunar Solo LE is by far your best bang for the buck. But for more money/less weight check out their Skyscape Trekker. 2011 Lunar Solo's with the lightweight floor go for about $150 and come up for sale frequently, that also gets you into the 24oz range.