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Nathan Coleman
(RockChucker30) - M
Paradox Packs on 07/08/2013 12:42:06 MDT Print View

We are about to introduce a new backpack that features a load responsive articulating frame that in our testing makes it very comfortable with light loads, but also comfortable with heavy expedition weight loads.

Paradox Packs

I'd like to get some feedback from the lightweight crowd. What do you think? Any specific features you would like to see?

Thanks,
Nathan

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Paradox Packs on 07/08/2013 12:50:09 MDT Print View

Lots of text with very few pics, and the pics you do have in the gallery are fairly worthless. One of the things I've always liked about Chris Zimmer's site is that his pics really show off his packs.

Some folks are word guys, I'm a visual guy. You can explain something all day long, but I need to see it to understand it - I'm not good at creating the visual in my mind from the text on your page. And without the pics, unless it's a really slow day, I'm probably not going to go to deep into the text.

FWIW.

Nathan Coleman
(RockChucker30) - M
Paradox Packs on 07/08/2013 12:52:57 MDT Print View

Thanks Doug. I should have a lot of clean background product photos to upload later this week.

Nathan Coleman
(RockChucker30) - M
Paradox Packs on 07/09/2013 12:00:18 MDT Print View

No comments?

What are your thoughts on the design concept? The frame and integrated compression works very well as a dry bag hauler, and the frame itself is capable of very heavy loads, and it is comfortable at both light and heavy loads.

An integrated summit pack/compression pack is an option in the system.

It may not qualify as ultralight, but it should qualify as lightweight. It is possible to have a 2 lb 5 oz bag hauler, which should appeal to pack rafters, skiers, winter backpackers, or anyone else needing to carry a more than usual load.

HK Newman
(hknewman) - MLife

Locale: Western US
Patadox packs on 07/09/2013 12:08:06 MDT Print View

Great concept as it may compete with the "not quite UL" or the "tried UL-going back to LW" crowds. Just glancing through your website, you definitely have been looking for a solution to what many regular hikers complain about (a little load bearing ability, modularity, etc..). I think the lightweight multicam option can be a hit and slate grey. Website-wise it's not that apparent if your 4400 or 6300 are volume numbers or model numbers (perhaps adding cubic inches, liters, etc.. so one doesn't need to hunt for it).

Add: After going through the website a little more maybe small pictures with details of each of your models when the page identifies a particular model. Your gallery should magnify your packs and their details a bit more IMHO.

Edited by hknewman on 07/09/2013 12:12:41 MDT.

Larry De La Briandais
(Hitech) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
Not sure what the pack is... on 07/09/2013 12:10:26 MDT Print View

I do not get a clear understanding of what you are producing from the web site. A few illustrations/pictures would probably help. Additionally, an overview that explains what this is without getting into the exact details would also help. The current overview is really just a list of features. The design page contains details about the features, but I don't see anywhere that explains exactly what it is. I can guess, but it needs to be spelled out. Again, pictures and/or illustrations would help here.

Edited by Hitech on 07/09/2013 12:13:17 MDT.

Richard R
(alaskaoneday) - MLife

Locale: Northern CA
Paradox Packs on 07/09/2013 12:10:45 MDT Print View

Nathan
I am kind of with Doug on this. I like the concept but would have to see more detailed info (pics, pricing etc) to comment further.

Nathan Coleman
(RockChucker30) - M
Thanks on 07/09/2013 12:34:36 MDT Print View

I appreciate the comments. I'll re-work the overview a bit to explain the system better.

I'll have pics up within a week or so. We've been deliberately holding back a bit on that, and pricing hasn't been released yet.

spelt !
(spelt) - F

Locale: Midwest
Re: Thanks on 07/09/2013 12:56:18 MDT Print View

Not just pictures, but diagrams are needed. If you want to sell this design as a breakthrough, people will need to understand how it works and why it's better. The text doesn't convey that.

David Chenault
(DaveC) - BPL Staff - F

Locale: Crown of the Continent
re: Paradox packs on 07/09/2013 21:02:51 MDT Print View

I agree that the current site is clear as mud. Claiming something as lofty sounding as an articulating frame which carries 100 pounds and isn't a backboard with 10 requires some serious meat as back up.

From a backpacking angle, I've never found the harness pack concept to be worth the bother. In theory the versatility is great, but in practice weight of the load drives frame size which in turn dictates pack size within a certain range. A fixed, integral packbag is lighter and carries better, all things being equal. For hunters I can see the virtue of the Kifaru approach. For backpackers not so much.

Ross L
(Ross) - MLife

Locale: Beautiful BC
Re: Paradox Packs on 07/09/2013 23:11:18 MDT Print View

Nathan

I would like to see the dimensions of frame and bags. ie width, height and circumferences. Individual close up clear pics of hipbelt,frame etc would be helpful.
I have been seriously considering the Stone Glacier Terminus pack for expedition sized loads and would like to get a clearer idea of what you will be offering. Maybe some side by side comparison pics with other well known packs would be helpful. Good luck with your product launch. Its nice to see the weight of the larger sized packs shrinking.

Thaddaeus Wharton
(Thadjw) - MLife
Need pics from all angles and a contact number on 07/10/2013 00:26:03 MDT Print View

Didn't see that and got bored and left.

K C
(KalebC) - F

Locale: South West
All about pictures on 07/10/2013 00:36:34 MDT Print View

You need to get some better pictures uploaded.
8oz for a pack lid? That's crazy, here at BPL, our packs weigh 8oz

kevin timm
(ktimm) - M

Locale: Colorado (SeekOutside)
Photos Etc on 07/10/2013 05:03:29 MDT Print View

Thanks for the comments, we understand a need to get better photos which should be done in the next few days. THe feedback will help us get the type of photos needed to show of the functionality the best.

To clear up a couple things it is not just a harness system. It can be a harness style / dry bag system but does not need to be. The compression is built into the frame so you can use it with just a dry bag or pack bag if you like. The compression panels, are a way of adding organization and functionality. For instance I carried in a dry bag with the day pack used as a compression panel last week and then used the day pack to get 3 high 13ers. Another reason for the more adaptable design is the ability to use lighter weigh/ replaceable pack bags / dry bags to save weight.

Regarding the weight carrying capacity , I have had over 125 lbs on it in testing several times. The pack has been fine at those loads and kept weight off my shoulders, however I'm not fine at 125. I can attest that it does not feel like a pack board at lower weights such as 10 or 15 lbs.

An 8 ounce lid with zippers and pockets ? It is what it is. WHile I personally do not even use a lid often, we have had several requests for it.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Paradox Packs on 07/10/2013 06:16:26 MDT Print View

Looks like the ULA Epic. Definitely need more pictures.

What's the relationship between Paradox and Seek Outside?

Edited by kthompson on 07/10/2013 06:21:21 MDT.

Nathan Coleman
(RockChucker30) - M
Re: Re: Paradox Packs on 07/10/2013 06:40:52 MDT Print View

Ken,

Paradox Packs and Seek Outside are sister companies.

I believe you will find some key differences in the Evo and other dry bag hauler type packs. First, the Evo is a bit heavier than it could be to support a load of up to 35-40 lbs. Second, it is much more comfortable at heavier weights than other packs of the ilk that I've tried in the past.

Where our pack shines really is at light loads and at heavy loads. There are many packs already on the market that carry mid-range loads well, but most packs that are good at big loads are too stiff at light loads. The Evo is good at both.

David, I agree with your comments about the advantages of interchangeable pack bags for the most part. We accepted the tradeoff of a small weight gain for the value that multiple pack bags can create. We may very well offer a lighter pack bag in the future with the frame captive to the bag that would save a bit of weight.

I really do appreciate the feedback. I'll be re-working the wording on the site a bit to try and clear things up. I should have product photos up by next week.....starting a business requires balancing competing priorities, and building a light box to take photos has been down the list until now.

Thanks,
Nathan

Edited by RockChucker30 on 07/10/2013 08:58:42 MDT.

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com) - M

Locale: no. california
Re: Paradox Packs on 07/10/2013 22:33:06 MDT Print View

not to be a naysayer, but if one is touting reasonable ability in the over +100# realm, they'd better have their ducks jolly well in a row.
when i reach down and grab (with some manhood) that beast by one strap and spin it up and around, if that things tosses a seam the four winds, that would not be good for the company reputation.
product " testing " is not in any manner the equity of "proven over time".

no criticism here , but so far, that +100# stuff is pretty big talk.
and yes, i know, nobody ever claimed "proven over time".

skeptical (really ??? ), but can't wait to see the pics.

cheers,
peter v.

Andy Jarman
(AndyJarman) - M

Locale: Edge of the World
Metric on 07/11/2013 04:09:43 MDT Print View

The USA and Burma are the last two countries on the planet not to use ISO metric. For the other 7 billion people on the planet, can you translate your dimensions into grams and litres please!

Nathan Coleman
(RockChucker30) - M
Re: Re: Paradox Packs on 07/11/2013 06:22:13 MDT Print View

Peter,

I've tested many different packs at those weights, and the Evolution is the most comfortable I've tried. The only thing that will allow us to pass the test of time is - well, time. Not much we can do about that except use good durable materials and craftsmanship.

Another point is that with 100 lb loads I'm a bit of a wimp. I'd rather get into the harness while the pack is on the ground, then roll to all fours, then get to my knees, then stand. I've muscled the pack up and on me but it always seems like I'm on the edge of pulling something.

Andy,

Your post made me laugh. It's amazing the things you don't think of! I'll add metric units to the list of changes to push out with the new content and pictures.

Thanks
Nathan

Nathan Coleman
(RockChucker30) - M
Site updated on 07/21/2013 14:30:17 MDT Print View

I built a lightbox this week and took some photos.

Evo / Day Talon

VX21 6300 / Day Talon

I also uploaded a Configurations Gallery, of pack photos with various components and added the weights and capacity.

I'll be reworking the content in the next few days to try and clear up some of the issues brought up in this thread.

I appreciate all the feedback.

Nathan