bear spray AND gun used in bear encounter
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eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
doesnt matter on 07/07/2013 19:54:04 MDT Print View

its all a moot point anyways cause the BPL bears never attack anyone .... they simply lounge around the forums looking cute ... that way you would never have to add the back breaking weight of that spray to your XUL spreadsheet

BPL bear =>



;)

Edited by bearbreeder on 07/07/2013 19:54:45 MDT.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
My Dear Mr. Vacco... on 07/07/2013 20:50:20 MDT Print View

My Dear Mr. Vacco,

With your disdain for firearms as protection against griz attack I hope you don't ever go into grizzly territory. Others with similar ideas have fared very poorly when attacked by Ursus Horribilis.

I have heard similar opinions from those who eschew firearms. As the saying goes, "a Democrat is a Republican who has never been mugged." (Well, I AM a Democrat but I carry and I hunt. I see no conflict there.

Addendum:
I see from others' posts that you have travelled extensively in grizzly territory, likely carrying bells and bear spray. I bow to your experience, having only faced down black bears myself - with the largest canister of bear spray I could buy.

And, upon closer reading of your post I see you do know that a "Kevlar stocked .338 (Win, mag.) would be comforting if stalked by a bear.

In light of this I retract my acid comment forthwith.
As Rosanna Rosanna Danna used to say on SNL, "Never mind."

Edited by Danepacker on 07/08/2013 11:49:19 MDT.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
HYOH on 07/07/2013 21:29:57 MDT Print View

I didn't see that Peter had anything against guns per se. Actually, he said he liked guns and spoke fondly of a certain .338.

Mike is a Montana Game Warden.

I had caribou stew tonight. From Adak in the Aleutians which I schlepped out from the hunt last Fall.

One can appreciate guns as tools for certain tasks, look at the evidence of scores of bear encounters and conclude that I, personally, am going to carry spray (if anything) and make a lot of noise (always).

No one is telling you not to carry a gun. I'm always telling people to do whatever approach they want. HYOH. I'm not going to stop someone from bringing their grandfather's canvas umbrella tent. It's how I started camping. But I'll point out that a nylon dome tent, sil-nylon tarp, etc, is lighter and more effective. Cause it's a forum for discussion of various issues.

I've looked at published research, talked to lots of people (except for that patient of my wife's who squeezed off a rifle round, clipped some brown bear hairs and drew some blood because he was, well, dead from a chomped skull), and pondered all the grizzly experiences we've had and the ones we've avoided having.

For myself: Always noise. And being alert to my surroundings. Spray in a higher-threat time and place. Guns, for me, only if I'm going for some bear sausage, roast, etc. Like 6 weeks ago.

But to each their own.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: My Dear Mr. Vacco... on 07/07/2013 21:57:24 MDT Print View

Eric,

You may want to do a little research on Mr. Vacco, especially his experience with Grizzly and Polar bears. I think he was the first person to hike the Brooks range in Alaska; solo.

He is pretty modest so we don't know a lot about him.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: My Dear Mr. Vacco... on 07/08/2013 06:50:41 MDT Print View

"You may want to do a little research on Mr. Vacco, especially his experience with Grizzly and Polar bears."

+1 and then some

He's also a great drinking companion - wonderful stories, great sense of humor, an all around rascal. I'd love to do a trip with him some time.

Tad Englund
(bestbuilder) - F - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: Re: My Dear Mr. Vacco... on 07/08/2013 09:30:20 MDT Print View

Doug, may I add "generous to a fault"

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: My Dear Mr. Vacco... on 07/08/2013 09:30:47 MDT Print View

"He's also a great drinking companion - wonderful stories, great sense of humor, an all around rascal. I'd love to do a trip with him some time."

I'd rather go drinking with him.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
""She was right there — arm's distance — I hit her with some bear spray," Braconnier recalled. Undeterred, the bear turned on Farkas, who was fumbling with a shotgun." on 07/08/2013 11:46:58 MDT Print View

so

bear spray, undeterred
shotgun, fumbled
people on ground, bear left

Justin Baker
(justin_baker)

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: ""She was right there — arm's distance — I hit her with some bear spray," Braconnier recalled. Undeterred, the bear turned on Farkas, who was fumbling with a shotgun." on 07/08/2013 11:57:34 MDT Print View

Solution? Carry some camouflage fabric. When the bear charges throw it over you and hide. Should work... right?

Really it sounds like there is nothing that can adequately and reliably protect you from a grizzly that wants to kill you.

Desert Dweller
(Drusilla)

Locale: Wild Wild West
bear spray and... on 07/08/2013 21:31:56 MDT Print View

I am surprised no one here has mentioned using bear bells. Like the ones on pulling harnesses and leather door strips that let business know someone has opened the front door...just a big Christmas bell really.
I have used bells on my backpack for decades, (only in grizzly country) they are loud enough for the grizzlies to hear and it gives them time to leave the area before you even see/smell them. I used them on my pack horses and mules in Idaho and Montana and it kept the bears from causing pack train wrecks.

Michael Gillenwater
(mwgillenwater) - M

Locale: Seattle area
Re: bear spray AND gun used in bear encounter on 07/08/2013 23:15:07 MDT Print View

I've seen a number of similar bear encounter discussions here on BPL. A lot of anecdotal stories and claims. I'm no expert, but here is what I have found is a good thorough and digestible (its a in video format) source to learn what the research says on bear encounters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PExlT-5VU-Y

I carry bear spray in known bear country (e.g., in the Bob Marshall where I was last weekend and will be again this weekend). But save the weight where bears are less common.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Noise first. on 07/08/2013 23:53:16 MDT Print View

>"I have used bells on my backpack for decades, (only in grizzly country) "

Not that bringing a dog into bear brown bear country is a good idea, but. . . we put the bells on the dog. She runs about 3 times the miles that we walk and is a lot bouncier. The dog is THRILLED when we get the bells out, because it means she going some place fun.

Gerald L
(Mtngeronimo) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Re: bear spray AND gun used in bear encounter on 07/09/2013 19:07:11 MDT Print View

' I'm no expert, but here is what I have found is a good thorough and digestible (its a in video format) source to learn what the research says on bear encounters. '

Michael,
Appreciate the link. After watching this talk by Dr. Tom Smith I am now inclined towards carrying bear spray when traveling in bear country. In fact I live in bear country and have had numerous encounters with black bear. I have always been taught the 'get big' approach and have mistakenly taught this to others. While not necessarily the worst possible course of action I now feel better equipped for the next encounter.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: bear spray AND gun used in bear encounter on 07/09/2013 21:24:43 MDT Print View

Michael,

Outstanding video!

Desert Dweller
(Drusilla)

Locale: Wild Wild West
Bear spray... on 07/10/2013 00:15:09 MDT Print View

Ditching the bells and have ordered bear spray. Thanks for the video.
I had a bear almost walk right into me last month around a bend on a local trail. I was sitting down taking a break and the breeze was from him to me so he was completely unaware that I was there and I was sitting in the shade. It was high noon and the sun was very bright and hot, I am sure he was headed to a springbox on the trail nearby for a drink. I had just removed my left shoe and sock so I grabbed my sock and said "hi there"... Wish I had a camera, the look on that bears face was as close to "oh crap" as I have ever seen and he ran away uphill as fast as he could go luckily for me and him. I got my shoe on as fast as I could and headed down the trail away....laughing but thankful the encounter was harmless. We have a surprising amount of bears in our area and I had seen fresh tracks so I was aware they are here. But my encounter illustrated how very quickly a person can end up very close to a bear unintentionally.

Larry De La Briandais
(Hitech) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
Bear spray works on 07/18/2013 18:09:11 MDT Print View

I think the account of the event PROVES that bear spray works and guns do not. The first hiker claimed that the bear was undeterred, but the bear stopped its attack on him AFTER he used the bear spray. The second hiker used a gun and the bear continued its attack on him.

I don't believe the bear was undeterred. It was most certainly deterred. It stopped its attack. That is what you want to happen.

The gun was ineffective in stopping the bear. It continued its attack.

Both of these encounters are consistent with other encounters.

I'm not anti-gun at all. I have shot lots and lots of different guns and still enjoy shooting. Not much of a hunter (only been once) though. Nothing against it, but I have enough hobbies.

BTW, a 12 gauge slug won't work either. Sure, the bear may die, but not before it attacks you first.

None of these are absolute and will happen all the time. The odds are just MUCH greater that it will happen the same way most of the time.

Luke Schmidt
(Cameron) - MLife

Locale: The WOODS
A solid spray? on 07/18/2013 18:37:00 MDT Print View

I wonder how much spray the bear got in its face? She might have been deterred by the spray or simply shifted to the other "threat." She may not have even got a solid doze of spray.

There have been cases of bears needing to be sprayed multiple times. I believe this was why Ryan Jordan recommended bigger cans of bear spray in an old article. He seemed to prefer UDAP which comes out faster then Counter Assault. The theory UDAP has is that you want to get as much spray in the bear's face with one squirt. Sounds reasonable to me.

Anyway I'll be hiking with the biggest can of UDAP I could find tomorrow in prime grizzly country. That is my primary defense option but I'll be making noise to. And since I'm solo and in a bivy with a sticky zipper I have a light but potent "friend" along for nights only. I can't fire bear spray through a bivy. Call me paranoid but I've seen about a dozen grizzlies in the last week and I want to be able to sleep at night.

Edited by Cameron on 07/18/2013 18:40:37 MDT.

Larry De La Briandais
(Hitech) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
Bear bells and pepper spray... on 07/18/2013 18:45:57 MDT Print View

Rangers are advising hikers to be alert for bears and take extra precautions to avoid an encounter. They advise visitors to wear little bells on their clothes so they make noise when hiking. The bell noise allows bears to hear them coming from a distance and not be startled by a hiker accidentally sneaking up on them. This might cause a bear to charge.

Visitors should also carry a pepper spray can just in case a bear is encountered. Spraying the pepper into the air will irritate the bear's sensitive nose and it will run away.

It is also a good idea to keep an eye out for fresh bear scat so you have an idea if bears are in the area. People should be able to recognize the difference between black bear and grizzly bear scat. Black bear droppings are smaller and often contain berries, leaves, and possibly bits of fur. Grizzly bear droppings tend to contain small bells and smell of pepper. :^)

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Does a bear poop in the woods? on 07/18/2013 21:58:39 MDT Print View

>"It is also a good idea to keep an eye out for fresh bear scat so you have an idea if bears are in the area."

The common response up here to "I saw bear scat." is "Was it warm?"

The common response to "Yes.", is "Was it steaming?!?"

If it hasn't dried out on top, I hold my hand close enough to feel any heat still emanating from it. Enquiring minds want to know.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Does a bear poop in the woods? on 07/18/2013 22:05:03 MDT Print View

How fresh does it need to be?

black bear

--B.G.--