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bear spray AND gun used in bear encounter
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eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
bear spray AND gun used in bear encounter on 07/04/2013 16:36:33 MDT Print View

more at link ...

Sgt. Joe Caravetta, a B.C. conservation officer, said two men in their mid-30s from Fernie were walking on a popular hiking and mountain biking trail between 9 a.m. and 10 a.m. when they encountered a sow and her cub.

He said the sow became “very defensive” of her cub and attacked one of the men and pushed him about six metres down the steep trail near the peak of the mountain.

The man used his bear spray and the grizzly retreated, said Caravetta. The sow then went after the other hiker and knocked him to the ground before chewing on his arms and upper body.

Caravetta said the hiker pulled out his gun and shot the bear at close range. The wounded animal ran away with her cub. The men administered their own first-aid from supplies they were carrying in their packs.

Edited by bearbreeder on 07/04/2013 16:37:14 MDT.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
You say bear incident, and I'll say auto accident. Cause that's what I always do. on 07/04/2013 18:37:55 MDT Print View

Two people slightly gnawed on by a bear. Morals: Carry pepper spray. Maybe even a gun if you are so inclined.

8 people slightly dead while driving home from camping trip. More morals: Don't drive while intoxicated. And especially not the wrong way on the parkway for 3 km:

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: All up in there
Re: bear encounter on 07/04/2013 18:41:46 MDT Print View

Wonder how the bear is doing?

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: bear encounter on 07/04/2013 18:46:33 MDT Print View

She's hurting, and looking for an easy meal....

Edited by greg23 on 07/04/2013 18:47:06 MDT.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: All up in there
Re: bear encounter on 07/04/2013 18:51:17 MDT Print View

So now we have a problem.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: bear encounter on 07/04/2013 19:13:12 MDT Print View

If you look at the Herrero bear statistics, in every case the offending bear is tracked down and killed

Maybe a few more bears that happen to be wandering by also

Brian Mix
(Aggro) - MLife

Locale: Western slope, Sierra Nevada
caliber on 07/05/2013 10:13:49 MDT Print View

I wonder what caliber the bear was shot with, small handgun it will likely heal, larger caliber it will likely die without a posse hunting it down.

Rob E

Locale: Canada
Re: caliber on 07/05/2013 10:21:49 MDT Print View

I also am wondering what type and caliber of gun was used, primarily because handgun possession laws are much stricter in Canada, so much so that the statistical chances of a hiker being able to legally carry a handgun for bear protection in Canada is effectively zero. So without knowing anything more, I would guess that it was likely a small pump action shotgun, or a rifle.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: caliber on 07/05/2013 11:07:51 MDT Print View

"small handgun it will likely heal"


They will track it down and kill it before it has time to start healing

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Caliber? Decibels? on 07/05/2013 11:55:17 MDT Print View

While the link given above suggests a handgun with the wording, "the hiker pulled out his gun and shot the bear at close range.", other news reports:

report that a shotgun was used. Which is a whole more likely (because it is more legal) to be carried in Canada. The OP's link makes it sounds like the use of the gun was what stopped the attack. The article linked above describes:

"The man was able to get his bear spray out and when he sprayed the sow, she retreated but went after the second man, who fired a shotgun at her and, according to his report, struck her at a fairly close distance, Caravetta said.

The bear continued to attack the man, biting his upper arm and chest before retreating.

"Perhaps once the bear had him down, she felt the threat was gone," Caravetta said, adding the attack is considered defensive and not predatory."

Indicating that, for this attack, this bear, this turn of events; pepper spray stopped the attack on the first man, a shotgun didn't stop the attack on the second man - his going down stopped the attack. UL note: Pepper Spray = 14 oz and worked, shotgun = 6 pounds and didn't work, duck&cover = 0 oz and worked albeit with some injuries.)

And, as Jerry has been pointing out: ""We're not pursuing the bear because it's a bad bear, we're pursuing it because we think it's wounded," Caravetta said, adding depending on the severity of its injury, the bear would have to be euthanized and the cub likely taken somewhere to be rehabilitated."

Spray: +1 Gun: 0
Humans -0.05 Bears: -1

Gun forums are pondering what gauge shotgun and what load (buckshot, slug, etc) was used, and have the implicit or explicit idea that if he carried the right weapon, the bear would have gone down instantaneous. Having seen a medium-sized black bear take two .338 bullets (3800 foot-pounds versus a 1-ounce 12-gauge slug at 1000 foot-pounds) and keep going, I know that's not always true.

I ponder "How much noise were they making immediately before the encounter?" I wish (like seat belt use in a MVA) that was a standard interview question and included in more news reports. UL note: yelling weighs nothing.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
12 ga. slug on 07/05/2013 21:36:56 MDT Print View

A 12 ga. slug will work nicely, either breaking major bones and/or damaging vital organs or instantly killing with a head shot.

Buckshot, not so much...

Delmar O'Donnell

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
Different Interpretation on 07/06/2013 22:32:40 MDT Print View

"UL note: Pepper Spray = 14 oz and worked, shotgun = 6 pounds and didn't work, duck&cover = 0 oz and worked albeit with some injuries.)"

Hm. I have a different interpretation.

Pepper spray did not work, as bear attacked again after the pepper spray. Perhaps the hot sauce agitated the bear further.

Gun worked, although not instantly, as bear retreated soon after. (Hardly an UL option however.)

"Perhaps once the bear had him down, she felt the threat was gone," Caravetta said...

Well, since we're speculating wildly, I'd speculate that perhaps the bear retreated due to wounds. But that's probably not politically correct.

Edited by Bolster on 07/06/2013 23:00:39 MDT.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
more information on 07/06/2013 23:51:58 MDT Print View

first hand account ...

"I heard a growl, and then we both heard a second growl, and we said, 'What was that?'" said Farkas.

"And before we could react, she was on us ... She knocked [Braconnier] over, hit him in the back and took him downhill out of my sight behind some shrubs."

After the bear swiped Braconnier four times and swung him through the air by his arm, he managed to hit back with some bear spray.

"She was right there — arm's distance — I hit her with some bear spray," Braconnier recalled.

Undeterred, the bear turned on Farkas, who was fumbling with a shotgun.

"When I saw her coming back up the hill, I had been fumbling with unstrapping the shotgun off my back, fumbling with shells," he said.

"I managed to load a shell. I saw her paws. I shot ... She seemed to stand up and writhe in pain like I had connected with her. And in an instant like lightning, she was around a bit of a corner and airborne at me, and she clawed me and pushed me back."

Farkas feared for the worst when he landed on his back more than three metres down the hill, with the angry grizzly bearing down on him.

"The most terrifying part was I was so vulnerable, head down hill, feet up. I was screaming. Her face was no more than a foot from my boot. And she turned around and left."

peter vacco

Locale: no. california
Re: Caliber? Decibels? on 07/07/2013 09:50:19 MDT Print View

David has the crux of it Right There.

" Pepper Spray = 14 oz and worked, shotgun = 6 pounds and didn't work "

you can add that if it's correctly mounted, you can deploy spray Vastly Faster, and without even using your hands if necessary.
Vastly Faster outguns Possibly Later in surprise attack defense.

(and this, coming from a fellow who is moving towards building an electric "polar bear fence" so he can get some sleep on his next trip)

peter vacco

Locale: no. california
Re: Different Interpretation on 07/07/2013 10:11:02 MDT Print View

"Perhaps once the bear had him down, she felt the threat was gone," Caravetta said...

Well, since we're speculating wildly, "

not quite so fast my politically incorrect friend. this is a bear with cubs. she will be Defending her own from the hikers, not feeding on them. interpretations of the situation is not speculation. not at all. this is what they do. i know this. i had pretty much the same thing for a mom. bears are reasonably predictable. not 100%, but close enough.
once hiker #1 sprayed her and was down (now threat free), she went after #2. noise, wound, fear, all notwithstanding, after he went down, she was finished. job done, same as. next ?

guns shmuns, i love 'em too, but for surprise bear encounters they are a distant third best thing to making noise and carrying spray.
on the other hand, if an encounter goes on and on, and you are being stalked over time/distance, well then, it's not really a surprise anymore is it ? about that time, rest assured, that little tin can is going to feel terribly not-enough, and you'll be sorely wanting that stainless 338 with kevlar stock we all dream about. back to speculation, no healthy sow with cubs is going to stalk a pair of smelly humans. it's not what they do.
mostly though :
you gott'a make some noise, and you got to stand fast your ground as well.
is gets scary.

Delmar O'Donnell

Locale: Between Jacinto & Gorgonio
For real? on 07/07/2013 15:21:53 MDT Print View

You guys must strongly believe in the power of pepper spray, to interpret this story's spraying as effective when the bear continues to attack "undeterred" (in the words of the report) after being sprayed. And apparently you also think the shotgun blast had little or no effect in breaking off the attack? This interpretation stretches credulity for me, but I understand that's one possible!

Obviously spray is much lighter in weight and thus much preferred for backpacking. And it doesn't require "fumbling around" to load, as the (apparently) unloaded shotgun did in this story.

You mention a person can deploy pepper spray "without even using your hands if necessary." How is that done?

Edited by Bolster on 07/07/2013 15:45:18 MDT.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: For real? on 07/07/2013 15:52:02 MDT Print View

"You mention a person can deploy pepper spray "without even using your hands if necessary." How is that done?"

Well, you have to carry it in a sling between your legs and train your penis, but it is doable....

Edited by idester on 07/07/2013 17:41:36 MDT.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
more info needed on 07/07/2013 17:35:56 MDT Print View

sounds like the guy carrying the shotgun didn't have bear spray (or decided not to use and went for the shotgun)????; got to wonder why would you carry a shotgun, presumably for bear protection as there aren't many hunting seasons open in July and not have it loaded????

lots of what ifs, but what if both individuals were carrying bear spray, both deployed them and both sprayed????

I'm frequently asked in the backcountry what I would use in a grizzly charge- my duty sidearm or the bear spray I'm also carrying- it's an easy one to answer for me, the bear spray- it's much easier to "hit" a charging bear w/ a wide aerosol pattern of bear spray than a bullet and unlike Hollywood, charging big critters (including humans) very seldom drop like a ton of bricks, they much more often keep going

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: bear spray AND gun used in bear encounter on 07/07/2013 18:44:29 MDT Print View

It is interesting to me that those who have lots of experience with Grizzlies and firearms see spray as the first line of defense. Maybe we should listen?

Philip Tschersich
(Philip.AK) - MLife

Locale: Kodiak Alaska
From the land of the big fuzzies on 07/07/2013 19:16:53 MDT Print View

I've lived on Kodiak Island Alaska for almost 25 years and have solo traveled thousands of miles here and throughout coastal Alaska. I only carry bear spray. Just sayin'.

Edited by Philip.AK on 07/07/2013 19:19:05 MDT.