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what to do when encountering guns on the trail
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Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Being Honest on 06/30/2013 13:38:17 MDT Print View

And while we are being honest, I found your PM to be kinda creepy and disingenuous. Especially with the ...fun... part.


Do you carry when hiking in groups?

Edited by kthompson on 06/30/2013 13:39:41 MDT.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Guns on 06/30/2013 13:40:54 MDT Print View

"Who's to decide who's the "Bad people" anyway? Judge Dred?"

--I would assume the hiker being assaulted at the time would have to make that decision themselves. I would never do that to anyone, so I would feel absolutely safe if I encountered another hiker carrying. If I assaulted someone, I would EXPECT them to defend themselves.

M

Edited by bigfoot2 on 06/30/2013 13:59:41 MDT.

Peter S (masc. über linear logical club)
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Re: Guns on 06/30/2013 13:44:11 MDT Print View

What if the situation wasn't that clear?

Please read my edited post above

Edited by prse on 06/30/2013 13:46:39 MDT.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Guns on 06/30/2013 13:44:41 MDT Print View

"And while we are being honest, I found your PM to be kinda creepy and disingenuous. Especially with the ...fun... part."

--Sorry. Not how it was intended. Supposed to be tongue in cheek. It was late and I was tired. I WAS serious...if you're ever up here in Oregon, we should do a hike. The Three Sisters is beautiful this time of year.


"Do you carry when hiking in groups?"

--I never really hike in large groups. Normally just me and a friend or two, so I guess the answer would be yes.

M

Edited by bigfoot2 on 06/30/2013 13:45:13 MDT.

Peter S (masc. über linear logical club)
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Stop on 06/30/2013 14:03:37 MDT Print View

I'll stop here. Just remember that you believe that all the "Bad people" (your words) you could meet has the same right as you to carry a lethal weapon.

Take care, see you in another thread.

Edited by prse on 06/30/2013 16:06:54 MDT.

doug thomas
(sparky52804) - MLife

Locale: Eastern Iowa
This and that on 06/30/2013 14:13:46 MDT Print View

You gotta love the way people pick and choose what parts of a conversation they will attack or defend, instead of treating the subject as a whole. Whether you lug around a rifle or shotgun to add a bit of wild game to the pantry, or carrying a handgun for personal protection, there is nothing wrong with going armed into the wilds. It is how you use that weapon. That said, I would like to address some comments made on this thread.

Daryl Daryl stated that he was afraid of unleashed dogs on the trail, and that his view of guns was similar. Excited dogs can jump and bark and bite, so can guns. Both. Should be leashed, so to speak. Guns should be concealed if at all possible, just for the peace of mind of others. And a leashed dog might just prevent it from getting shot.

Spelt- your correct, it's what they do after they get elected that shows their true colors.

Dean- I don't think this administration has charged any more whistle blowers than others, I just think that their problems have been in the press more often.

Peter- What concerns us about people on the trail? The same things that concern us about people anywhere else. While people on the trail tend to be more laid back, not all have that same mindset.

Bob Bankhead- All good ideas, but while I wouldn't ignore the gun, I would be aware of it. And that hike naked thing, you sure about that, not all of us are in pristine condition.

Ken Helwig- I think it is you that needs a better understanding of the 2nd Amendment. Ours is based on the English Bill of Rights, enacted to combat the tyranny of King James II who tried to disarm his political enemies, ( the Protestants ) and supported the natural rights of self defense, resistance to oppression, and to act in defense of the realm.

Equating gun control to Hitler's Germany. One of the things he did after seizing power was to enact the Nazi Weapons Act of 1938, which gave the Nazis power to institute background checks, registration, control what ammo was allowed, and made it illegal for Jews to own guns, truncheons, and bladed weapons. Basically disarming an entire section of the German population.

Tyranny does not have to be restricted to one person, it can be tyranny by the majority. You wanted example- slavery, women's sufferage, The National Defense Authorization Act, which allows for the arrest and detainment of American citizens without warrants or due process. How about Congress ceding its war declaration powers to the President which allows him or her to start a war for whatever reason they think the public will buy. Patriot Act reductions of individual rights, illegal wire taps and spying on citizens (Verizon). TSA confiscation of private property and intimate searches during aircraft boarding. Passing a 2500+ page healthcare act with no floor debate and not originating in the House of Representatives as required by the Constitution. The President bypassing Congress to enact laws by Presidential decree. Sounds a bit like oppression and tyranny doesn't it.

Matthew- you pretty much get a pass because most of what you said is correct. The Liberals do seem to trot out the racist card a lot if you happen to disagree with them. I do agree with the others, the memes are a bit much.

Last but not least

Jen Mitol- Being a " flaming left wing socialist liberal". Go for it, diversity is what makes life interesting. Part of the fun is having an intelligent conversation and trying to change opinions.

I'm glad that you are "intolerant of intolerance", we all should be.

Matthew's comment about "new citizens" was not racist, but fact.

"I wonder why some people feel the need to extend their manhood to include packing heat when there are no grizzlies around". Sexist much?
Bears aren't the only dangerous critters out there.

"What are you afraid of, who do you plan on shooting? Not much if I am armed, and no one unless my safety is involved.

"Purity of hiking trumps mine". It doesn't and it shouldn't, mutual respect would go a long way.

"A well regulated militia" are citizen soldiers like the Guard and Reserve, not private citizens, unless they are called up to serve.

Calling someone a yokel, not sure if that is racist, regionist or what, but it is rude and demeaning.

"Lay off the testosterone" Again, sexist, you a member of the girly girl man hating club?


A handgun is a deterrent, whether loaded or not, it give people pause, it makes them think before acting. Just like a leashed dog gives people peace of mind, a firearm give other people the same peace of mind. I personally think they should be concealed and brought out only in cases of extreme need. Out of site out of mind.


Thanks for allowing me to rant.


Doug

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Nothing new on 06/30/2013 14:14:05 MDT Print View

The way I see it Matthew is not doing his position any favors at all. Too bad for those that have good arguments in favor of the second amendment- and there are good arguments.
Ken Helwig and a few others are doing those that oppose the right to carry no favors either, and there are good arguments there too.
I see both Ken H. and Matthew lacking a well thought out argument, and equally damaging to their cause. But I am sure both just view the other as outrageous.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Guns on 06/30/2013 14:14:41 MDT Print View

No harm no foul Matthew. Three Sisters is on my to do list.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Oh on 06/30/2013 14:14:59 MDT Print View

But I had a great trip with the girls! 107 was just a bit much though..

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Guns on 06/30/2013 14:15:40 MDT Print View

"I'll stop here. Just remember that you believe that all the "Bad people" (your words) you could meet has the same right as you to carry a lethal wepon.

Take care, see you in another thread."

--That is absolutely true. And criminals and "bad people" will not obey any laws anyway, so all the more reason to not restrict the law-abiding citizens rights to own a gun. Criminals will get guns, no matter the laws. If you take that right away from the "good people", you are just making them targets.

Thanks for your opinions on the matter. We might not agree, but I value your input none the less, Peter.

M

doug thomas
(sparky52804) - MLife

Locale: Eastern Iowa
PS on 06/30/2013 14:16:28 MDT Print View

I think anyone going armed anywhere should be trained and competent with their weapon of choice

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: PS on 06/30/2013 14:24:11 MDT Print View

"I think anyone going armed anywhere should be trained and competent with their weapon of choice"

+1

This was fun. Thanks everyone.

Edited by kthompson on 06/30/2013 14:29:17 MDT.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Guns on 06/30/2013 14:32:06 MDT Print View

Hey, Kat.
Nice of you to chime in. I still love those pockets you made for my old Golite Gust pack, by the way (free plug).

http://www.outdoortrailgear.com/cottage-industries/mountaingoatgear/mountaingoat-hats-goods-store/

Doug,
Where you been? Better late than never, I guess :)

M

Edited by bigfoot2 on 06/30/2013 14:48:58 MDT.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Guns on 06/30/2013 14:42:18 MDT Print View

Hey Perry,
I actually believe in the second amendment and wish you did not give some people so much ammo against your position.
Thanks for the free plug.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: This and that on 06/30/2013 14:53:25 MDT Print View

"Dean- I don't think this administration has charged any more whistle blowers than others, I just think that their problems have been in the press more often."

No, it's true, this administration has prosecuted six whistleblowers, all other administrations combined have prosecuted three (including Daniel Ellsberg). A simple google search will turn up plenty of articles - including articles by The Nation, The Atlantic, and Mother Jones.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Guns on 06/30/2013 14:53:49 MDT Print View

"Hey Perry,
I actually believe in the second amendment and wish you did not give some people so much ammo against your position.
Thanks for the free plug."

How so, Kat? Call it like I see it. Was it my me me's? LOL

c

Matt

Edited by bigfoot2 on 06/30/2013 14:58:58 MDT.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Guns on 06/30/2013 15:17:44 MDT Print View

That is more Libertarian or Teabilly than conservative ^^

doug thomas
(sparky52804) - MLife

Locale: Eastern Iowa
Re: Re: This and that on 06/30/2013 15:20:44 MDT Print View

Doug, that was my personal opinion, I really didn't look into it that much. Sorry about that.

Doug

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Guns on 06/30/2013 15:21:14 MDT Print View

"That is more Libertarian or Teabilly than conservative ^^"

--Exactly. I never labeled myself that, you guys did. I consider myself a Constitutional Conservative. Reagan said that he did not leave the Democratic party, it left HIM....I feel the same way about the Republican party at this point, and that's a shame because the Republican party have been champions of civil rights and liberty, as well as less government intervention, historically. They need to get back to their roots in order to survive. They could have 11 million new voters registered soon, if they just let them know they stood for jobs, low taxes, less government and traditional family values (issues very important to the Mexican families of today).

M

Edited by bigfoot2 on 06/30/2013 15:25:57 MDT.

doug thomas
(sparky52804) - MLife

Locale: Eastern Iowa
Re: Re: Guns on 06/30/2013 15:23:58 MDT Print View

Strictly speaking Matt, he is right about that, it is a bit more Libertarian. The teabilly thing is a bit insulting though.