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what to do when encountering guns on the trail
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Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/13/2013 18:36:17 MDT Print View

heat

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/13/2013 19:18:25 MDT Print View

Either way, i'm in favor of it.

Matt
PS--By the way,Ken Helwig, you stated in a post to Kat that "I asked Matthew to post information and he did not", when, in fact, I did link several articles and other info that I believe you did not even bother to read. Please do not lie. It's not becoming of you. We can do without name calling, also, please.

Edited by bigfoot2 on 07/13/2013 21:31:36 MDT.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/14/2013 17:21:51 MDT Print View

Hammer? Meet nail.....and then right on the head

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=624308027602471&set=a.502129386487003.92449663.502122049821070&type=1&theater

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/14/2013 17:56:18 MDT Print View

Thanks for the link, however that does address what we have been talking about here.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/14/2013 18:21:43 MDT Print View

Don't care, I am right. I stated my reasons why I do not like The GOP. If you are a minority, gay or a woman, you should be very concerned of what they are trying to do to you

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/14/2013 18:25:29 MDT Print View

Keep on keepin' on! What side of the fence are you on? What say you!

http://aattp.org/ohio-tea-party-leader-gives-racist-speech-at-school-flies-confederate-flag/

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/14/2013 18:26:23 MDT Print View

Do not engage the guns owner in a political discussion is the lesson I take away from this thread. You're likely to get shot.

Head down, mouth shut, keep moving, no eye contact. Probably makes them feel bad ass to get that reaction.





Edit: 13 pages huh? Are none of us getting outside enough this year? I'm not apparently.

I'm lost.

Edited by kthompson on 07/14/2013 18:58:41 MDT.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/14/2013 18:35:20 MDT Print View

Ken Helwig, can you try and address my questions from previous posts that you said you would think about and address?
Again, I am not a citizen and cannot vote. I don't have to but into a party.
I am concerned about what both parties are doing; sometimes one concerns me more than the other. You Ken, are someone that concerns me, as are people on the right just as blinded as you seem to be. I have been trying very hard to maintain a rational discussion with you, but that is just not possible at this point. You refuse to answer any question or even ask me about where I stand.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/14/2013 18:36:50 MDT Print View

"Keep on keepin' on! What side of the fence are you on? What say you!

http://aattp.org/ohio-tea-party-leader-gives-racist-speech-at-school-flies-confederate-flag/"


Again, neither side of the fence, and I don't have to be.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/14/2013 18:38:15 MDT Print View

"Don't care, I am right. I stated my reasons why I do not like The GOP. If you are a minority, gay or a woman, you should be very concerned of what they are trying to do to you"


You are right about what?
I am concerned about what is going on, as a free thinking person.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/14/2013 19:07:31 MDT Print View

Choosing to stay on the fence is still a choice. I'm sure I don't agree with all of Ken's beliefs, but drawing false equivalencies just makes a person look foolish. Both sides do bad things, but they are NOT equally bad, either in quality or quantity.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/14/2013 19:38:30 MDT Print View

"but drawing false equivalencies just makes a person look foolish. Both sides do bad things, but they are NOT equally bad, either in quality or quantity"

Spelt, I have to respectfully disagree with you here. I consider myself to be pretty fair minded; both the DNC and GOP received equal votes from me in the last election but there is no way IMO anyone can show how one is appreciably worse than the other.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/14/2013 22:11:31 MDT Print View

Ian, that is exactly the false equivalency that I am talking about: this notion that because neither side is perfect, they therefore MUST be equally bad. Just because a point of view exists does not mean it has merit. Likewise, just because a point of view is flawed in execution does not mean it is without merit. This is actually an absolutist approach to the idea of shades of gray, a perversion that removes all context until nothing is left but "teach the controversy."

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/14/2013 22:49:05 MDT Print View

I can speak for hours on some horrible things that the GOP has done to our country and then hours beyond that about the DNC. To be honest, you are implying that one of the parties is significantly worse than the other but I'm not sure which one you are talking about.

Less rhetoric rant and more specificity please.

Want to trace no bid contracts to companies like Halliburton and KBR, start with LBJ (and every president after him). http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1569483

Want to talk about US sponsored terrorism? Reagan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_Beirut_car_bombing

Censorship? Al and Tipper Gore.

America's play now pay later mantra ala printing funny money? Clearly a 50/50 effort.

I can go on forever.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/15/2013 07:03:34 MDT Print View

"Choosing to stay on the fence is still a choice."

The fence. The fence that separates people whose beliefs magically coincide with the special interests that have bought the two parties? The fence that separates voters?
You see that fence and I don't, so I am not sitting on it as far as I am concerned. I do see people acting as if there is one, moving further and further away from this imaginary line, yelling at me about the danger I am in, hanging out near this border.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/15/2013 08:00:59 MDT Print View

To be honest, you are implying that one of the parties is significantly worse than the other but I'm not sure which one you are talking about.

That was by intention. As soon as you get into specifics you are basically arguing semantics and awareness of guiding philosophies that shape the worldviews behind each party are lost in he-said-she-said. Not helpful IMO. Which party you think worse (if you do) depends on your own worldview and how that matches or doesn't to those of the parties. People do not really vote rationally. Many studies have shown this. I think that people do not pick sides rationally either, so a comparison of bad things might win an argument, but it won't change many minds.

I'm trying not to be obtuse but it's been a while since I've had such discussions and I'm out of practice. Hopefully that was vaguely comprehensible.

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/15/2013 08:09:13 MDT Print View

Kat, you are dissembling. Fence or no, imaginary or no, choosing not to choose is a choice. Saying there is no clear, good choice is one thing (Ian's argument). I hear you saying you do not see a choice at all. That seems either unobservant or disingenuous.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/15/2013 09:34:38 MDT Print View

Again, I don't get to vote. The advantage to that is that I don't have/get/need to choose. The other advantage is that by staying on the outside I think I see things without the slant; I am not sure of that, I just think so.
I have not had TV in over 20 years; I get my news from the radio, mostly NPR and from the Internet. I don't even know what most politicians and celebrities look like.
I was raised first in a country that in some ways resembles the US, but with a way more decentralized government, more business friendly, yet safety nets for those who need it. Most everyone there seems to care about the environment. No wars, but they like to be prepared. Plenty of things I don't like about Switzerland too, by the way.
Next I was raised in a country that before my time swung to the far right ( although fascism is beyond either side really) then swung so far to the left that only the rich and those with government connections got to move ahead and do any kind of business. Corruption still runs rampant in Italy today. Berlusconi....don't get me started!

My only argument on this thread was that both extremes, particularly if loaded with offensive language, put downs and assumptions - hurt us. When the right does that there are many legitimately vociferous people that call them on it. When the left does it, it's ok because they are right in their views. I object to that. I also object to have been pigeon holed and unfairly cast off as a right winger, which I am not. Then fear tactics to get me to get off the fence. You want me to say that while both parties are bad, the right is worse. I have probably argued more in my life against right wingers than I have left wingers. I have been attacked more viciously by the left, as the polarizing is getting worse. I am not the one in this thread that has made assumptions; I do believe that both parties are succeeding in demonizing the other and I have been a recipient of that here, without even belonging to the "other" party. There is something wrong with that.

Edited by Kat_P on 07/15/2013 18:06:15 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/15/2013 10:35:41 MDT Print View

I'm starting the "Frig you people I'm going hiking" party aka the G.O.D. (Grand ol' Dirtbags).

Who's with me?

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 07/15/2013 10:41:40 MDT Print View

Sounds good to me.