what to do when encountering guns on the trail
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masculine über linear logical club
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Re: Re: It's not about hunting..........what part of "Shall not be infringed" do people not get? on 06/30/2013 06:26:12 MDT Print View

Matthew, I'll ask again : what exactly concerns you about people on the trail?

Have you had a traumatising experience?

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: (Sigh) ...racist...yeah, sure.... on 06/30/2013 07:40:23 MDT Print View

Matthew, since you obviously can only make your arguments using Internet memes and regurgitating Glenn Beck fanaticism, I understand this must be a difficult concept to get. I did not say you WERE a racist homophobe, I simply said that the act of having a "black friend" and a gay assistant does not mean you are NOT a racist homophobe.

And as a flaming left wing socialist liberal, I am proud that I am intolerant of intolerance. There are some cultures and ideas in this world that are not acceptable, and should not be respected: racism, hatred, your obviously demeaning comment about "new citizens" is a rather glaring example of racism by the way, xenophobia, misogyny...no, I shouldn't have to tolerate those things.

Now. Back to my dehydrating.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re:Liberals on 06/30/2013 07:56:11 MDT Print View

Good Morning Jen.

Thanks Matthew. I cross the border to the north from time to time. You never know. I'll keep an eye peeled for you.

As for guns on the trail. Which is more intimidating, 9mm automatic, or long barreled, large caliber revolver? Or do rifles trump pistols?

So many choices.


It's a good question Peter.

As for myself. I have had guns pointed at me a couple of times. In town, never on the trail. In my 46 years years here I am glad to say I have never been in a situation where I thought my having a gun would result in a better outcome.

Edited by kthompson on 06/30/2013 08:14:35 MDT.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Re:Liberals on 06/30/2013 08:13:11 MDT Print View

Good morning Ken.

I also like Peter's question.

While people who generalize may assume that all liberals hate guns, I can absolutely see how they serve a purpose. If I lived in Alaska, or remote West Texas, or something similar...I get it. But I do wonder why some people feel the need to extend their manhood to include packing heat on the trails if there are no grizzlies around.

What are you afraid of?? Who are you thinking about shooting?

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: (Sigh) ...racist...yeah, sure.... on 06/30/2013 10:44:39 MDT Print View

Matthew, could you please stop posting STUPID me me's and answer my question??? Tyranny from our government is what you are so paranoid about. Please give me an answer. You equated gun control laws to Hitler Germany. I am quite amused with this analogy.

Yes I did generalize earlier about conservatives. Unfairly so to a degree I might add. But when I see the pro gun, teabilly, hate everything that Obama or liberals stand for, I cannot help but paint stupid Teapublicans in that light......so excuse me while I go outside and put up my racist Obama effigy and start shooting at it.(that was a joke btw)

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 06/30/2013 11:14:25 MDT Print View

Perter S said: "Matthew, I'll ask again : what exactly concerns you about people on the trail? "

Absolutely nothing...when I carry. That's the point. Like I said before, I never worry about animals, but, people are a much different story. Have you ever hiked into an illegal pot field? That's one scary feeling when you realize where you are. I am not naive enough to think people on the trail are all just one big, happy, hippie hiking family. I know better. I choose to look for the good in people I meet on the trail, but I also am prepared just in case they are not so nice. As someone famously said " Trust, but verify".


Ken H said: "Matthew, could you please stop posting STUPID me me's and answer my question??? Tyranny from our government is what you are so paranoid about. Please give me an answer. You equated gun control laws to Hitler Germany. I am quite amused with this analogy. "

Though my opinion was very clear on this. What, exactly do you need clarified there, Ken? Arms are the first thing Hitler (or any dictator or tyrant looking to oppress people)takes away... that way, their ability to fight back and defend themselves is severely compromised, making them easier to abuse. What don't you understand? Seems so simple even you should be able to figure out the correlation here.

M

Edited by bigfoot2 on 06/30/2013 11:16:14 MDT.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Being Honest on 06/30/2013 11:20:16 MDT Print View

Jennifer said: "I did not say you WERE a racist homophobe, I simply said that the act of having a "black friend" and a gay assistant does not mean you are NOT a racist homophobe.
"

Sure..we all knew what you meant. Don't sugar coat it. In the context and placement you put it in, you were calling me those names and trying to change the tone of the argument (which succeeded, by the way). Classic ploy of the far left. At least be honest about it. You can debate the definition of "THE" all day, but the meaning and intent is the same.
Or should I have said, even if you implement "COMMON CORE" crap in schools, 2 + 2 will STILL = 4, no matter how you brainwash kids.

Now, I have some questions for you guys:
1. Please answer MY question about why you still support and post on this site, even though it was started and is run by Ryan Jordan, a second amendment supporter? It seems to me you should all be boycotting it, if you feel that strongly about the issue.
2. Why exactly, are you so scared of guns, and responsible gun owners, on the trail?
3. Can you please research gun violence on our trails and get back to me with even one case where an armed hiker was killed? I bet you will not find ANY instance of this at all. Pay close attention to the deaths from violence on the AT, near towns. If those hikers were armed, I bet they would still be alive today.
M

Edited by bigfoot2 on 06/30/2013 11:36:23 MDT.

masculine über linear logical club
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 06/30/2013 11:45:24 MDT Print View

Matthew, thank you for replying.

Are you saying that you carry a gun because you FELT that the pot field incident could potentially be life threatening, or that you WERE threatened on your life in that situation?

masculine über linear logical club
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Re: Being Honest on 06/30/2013 12:00:30 MDT Print View

To answer your 1. question: "We tolerate Anybody. Even the intolerable" - Dillon, Alien 3

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Being Honest on 06/30/2013 12:01:20 MDT Print View

1. Please answer MY question about why you still support and post on this site, even though it was started and is run by Ryan Jordan, a second amendment supporter? It seems to me you should all be boycotting it, if you feel that strongly about the issue.


The sites primary purpose is to promote lightweight wilderness travel. I can dig it. Everyone knows how I feel about RJ the human.


2. Why exactly, are you so scared of guns, and responsible gun owners, on the trail?

I'm not. See answer to #3

3. Can you please research gun violence on our trails and get back to me with even one case where an armed hiker was killed? I bet you will not find ANY instance of this at all. Right. So much safer out there it seems. But that drive to the trailhead. Man.


Pay close attention to the deaths from violence on the AT, near towns. If those hikers were armed, I bet they would still be alive today.

That's a pretty big leap there fella. If they had the presence of mind, were properly trained, had been on the defensive, possibly.
Soldiers get shot all the time. Two with guns. With or without a weapon one will still be the loser.

Matthew.

Can you please research gun violence on our trails and get back to me with even one case where an unarmed hiker was killed by some other hiker with a gun?

masculine über linear logical club
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Re: Being Honest on 06/30/2013 12:07:55 MDT Print View

How many hikers carry guns? That must affect the death numbers on gun carrying hikers....

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 06/30/2013 12:20:57 MDT Print View

"Matthew, thank you for replying.

Are you saying that you carry a gun because you FELT that the pot field incident could potentially be life threatening, or that you WERE threatened on your life in that situation?"

No problem. Well, it certainly did not help my feelings. LOL. But seriously, people are generally good and decent, but there are those who are not. That's just the way of the world. Always has been, always will be. I am just being a realist because I know human nature and what man is capable of. A good way to see my perspective is the parachute analogy: it's better to have a parachute (or gun) and not need it, than to need it and not have it. Same reason people buy insurance. I just think of my gun as insurance that I hope I never need to use (this being Backpacking LIGHT, I just ditch 12 oz. of food or something else to keep my base weight down). :)

M

Edited by bigfoot2 on 06/30/2013 12:35:20 MDT.

masculine über linear logical club
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Re: what to do when encountering guns on the trail on 06/30/2013 12:42:04 MDT Print View

We'll, let's hope nobody reads this and agrees with you. That would make them buy a bigger gun than you. Nobody here would want that. I think we can agree on that in some strange way ;-)

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Guns on 06/30/2013 12:50:53 MDT Print View

Here's an interesting article I came across on the topic:

http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/hiking/sections/gear/guns.htm

M

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Guns on 06/30/2013 12:56:23 MDT Print View

"We'll, let's hope nobody reads this and agrees with you. That would make them buy a bigger gun than you. Nobody here would want that. I think we can agree on that in some strange way ;-)"

Don't follow your logic...it's not the cold war and they would not be worried about me carrying if they felt a gun was needed. They'd never even SEE my little 9mm, anyway. They'd be worried about non-responsible "bad people", know what I mean? As long as I don't threaten them, why would they feel that way?

M

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Guns on 06/30/2013 13:02:49 MDT Print View

You're still not answering my question Matthew...show my where the Govt. is infringing on your rights to own a weapon. To answer your question about why I or others support this site when Ryan hunts or supports the second amendment? I stated earlier that I own a handgun. Do I carry it while hiking? Heck no. No need to. I live in the Santa Cruz Mountains and know full well of illegal pot farms....there are many up in these mountains. BUT......I hike in The Sierra's and at 10,000 feet I think I am pretty safe out there. Matthew I guess you support open carry laws too right? You probably are one of those John Wayne wannabe types that thinks that by having a firearm on you that you would indeed stop crimes from happening. I guess too, that you support teachers being armed to protect their students. (shaking my head in disgust)

Edited by kennyhel77 on 06/30/2013 13:14:02 MDT.

masculine über linear logical club
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Re: Guns on 06/30/2013 13:15:55 MDT Print View

I wasn't thinking about the cold war.

Matthew Perry
(bigfoot2) - F

Locale: Oregon
Guns on 06/30/2013 13:16:15 MDT Print View

"Your still not answering my question Matthew...show my where the Govt. is infringing on your rights to own a weapon."

--LOL..you serious? Just look at California or some other states. Cali now is making it illegal to own ammo without a permit. Uhh...yeah, that's restricting, in my book. Dianne Finestein actually came out and said publically that she believes no one should own guns in the US. She is a public official and government representative.

"To answer your question about why I or others support this site when Ryan hunts or supports the second ammendment? I stated earlier that I own a handgun. Do I carry it while hiking? Heck no. No need to. I live in the Santa Cruz Mountains and know full well of illegal pot farms....there are many up in these mountains. BUT......I hike in The Sierra's and at 10,000 feet I think I am pretty safe out there."

---That's your right. I would not think of infringing on it. Do whatever you feel is right FOR YOU.

"Matthew I guess you support open carry laws too right?"

--Absolutely. Doesn't bother me one bit. Do I open carry? No. I have a concealed permit.

" You probably are one of those John Wayne wannabe types that thinks that by having a firearm on you that you would indeed stop crimes from happening."

--Nope. But by having it on me, I could FINISH it. LOL.

" I guess too, that you support teachers being armed to protect their students. (shaking my head in disgust)"

--Absolutely! Police normally show up AFTER a crime has been commited, not during. I know I would not target a school if every teacher was armed. The idea of "gun free schools" or "gun free zones" is laughable. Those are "people hunting preserves", in my opinion. The President's kids are protected by armed guards in school, why should the rest of America's children not be afforded that same right? Are they any less valuable? I say we should do everything possible to protect them, and if having a teacher properly trained carry a gun in the classroom will do that, why not?

Do you know the country with the lowest gun violence? It's Switzerland. Know why? It is a LAW that every citizen be armed and must practice with their weapon. Go figure....guns deter crime. That's why police have them. LOL

M

Edited by bigfoot2 on 06/30/2013 13:56:51 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Switzerland on 06/30/2013 13:22:41 MDT Print View

Not as cut and dry as you think. It is not every citizen for starters.



Most don't have ammo either.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

Edited by kthompson on 06/30/2013 13:32:28 MDT.

masculine über linear logical club
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Bad people on 06/30/2013 13:28:49 MDT Print View

Who's to decide who's the "Bad people" anyway? What if the "Bad people" judged you to be the bad one?

Edited the sarcasm away. This is too important .

Edited by prse on 06/30/2013 13:37:47 MDT.