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Ruta Locura Palisade - Electrified Bear Bag
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Nicholas Viglione
(nicholas.viglione@gmail.com) - MLife
Ruta Locura Palisade - Electrified Bear Bag on 06/12/2013 06:23:03 MDT Print View

Obviously a very niche item, effective (?) only for shorter duration trips, but an interesting idea nonetheless. Has anyone tried these out? I had never seen them before but stumbled across it while browsing the Locura website the other day. Too bad it's not SIBBG approved or it might be worth giving a shot in the Adirondack High Peaks this summer!

RL Palisade

Stats as per the website:
Specifications:
Weight: ~19oz Total Weight. Energizer:~12oz Sack 7.3oz
Output Pulse Rate: Pulses occur every 1.2 seconds at full charge. Charge
gradually drops to 2.4 seconds at low battery levels to
conserve power. While the duration increases, the
voltage remains the same.
Battery life: At least 75 hours with alkaline batteries. 96 hours with
lithium batteries.
Size: 900 Cubic Inches. 9 Inches by 14 Inches.

John Kays
(johnk) - M

Locale: SoCal
fido/URSA shock on 06/12/2013 09:16:24 MDT Print View

This looks like the Wilderness Solutions bag that SIBGG refused to look at a few years ago thus killing the company?

Andrew Manies
(amanies)

Locale: SF Bay Area
Re: Shocking on 06/12/2013 10:26:32 MDT Print View

I have to admit not seeing the point of this. Obviously it's lighter than some alternatives, but I doubt it will receive approval from the SIBBG or IGBC.

Further, what's the use of having such a large capacity if the batteries do not last longer than 96 hours? A 900 ci canister would be enough for one person for more than a week, but the batteries would probably be dead by day four. So it would only make sense for two or more hikers to use in a non-SIBBG or IGBC-managed wilderness area, and weighs more than typical bear bag anyway.

Dave Grey
(dapperdave) - F
Not so useless.... on 06/12/2013 10:50:41 MDT Print View

I can see the use in this.
The batteries must be replaceable, and if you leave the bag unattended for 12 hrs per day, 1 set of lithium batteries will last a 9-day trip.
There is more info on the Ruta Locura site, specifically -

"The Palisade was effectively tested by the IGBC, with only one failure. That failure occurred when the bag was filled with a large quantity of rancid meat. Liquid matter from the meat pooled in the controller compartment and shorted the energizer, leading to a failure"

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't take any wet, conductive stuff in my bear canister.

They don't state, however, whether they are resubmitting the bag for approval.

They do have a Quicktime video of testing and that bear takes off at some velocity when it summons up the courage to touch the bag with its nose.


Dave

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
RL Palisade on 06/12/2013 22:26:13 MDT Print View

Does anyone know what the batteries are? Since it is said to take either alkaline or lithium, they might be AA or AAA.

If it takes 2-3 AAs, an extra set might be doable. Don't see any need to have the bag armed except during the night (don't hike in grizz country anymore).

I'm not looking at this from a bear can regulations standpoint, since I backpack where there are none. Just whether it would be worth the $250.

So it would also be nice to know the dimensions of the bag unless I missed them.
Assuming it would carry food for a week on one set of batteries, which may be the case, I think I would still want to hang the bag. A few times, when very tired, I've not hung my Ursack, just attached it in the notch of a tree some distance from camp per the instructions. The reason for hanging is often alluded to in these forums; that is, if the bear gets ahold of the bag, who knows where it will end up. And don't want the food anywhere near my tent where it may attract bears.

I guess the scenario would be that if the bear gets the sack down from the tree, he will be repelled by the bag, and run off. That sounds workable. But what about other bears.

I've never had a problem with bears outside of Grizz country unless I did something stupid. So not sure it would be worth the $250 to pay for being stupid.
Maybe the price will come down after a while. Then it would be harder to justify not getting one. Having a bear hanging around most of the night, even if no damage is done, can be pretty unsettling. And there are not often convenient places to hang at higher elevations. Guess the purchase could be more justifiable than getting the lighter PLB with less broadcast time because the lighter batteries have less capacity. It will be for next year, anyway. Tapped out now.

John Kays
(johnk) - M

Locale: SoCal
AA or AAA on 06/13/2013 08:17:25 MDT Print View

Iam pretty sure It takes two AA Sam. I am not at home now to check but I have one of thei WS bags and have used it a few times. No problems with the battery life on a five day trip, the maximum I have had it out. The button on the controller will not allow me to turn it off so I have to disconnect it to turn it off and have suffered a few jolts in the process. Otherwise it is fine setup. I would carry it on longer hikes but the rangers in the Yosemite and Whitney areas can be a tad aggressive with tickets at times. It Works.

Edited by johnk on 06/13/2013 08:18:42 MDT.

Derrick White
(miku) - MLife

Locale: Newfoundland & Labrador, Canada
I like it! on 06/13/2013 08:48:10 MDT Print View

I spend a lot of time in dense black bear country, sometimes for extended trips (2-3 weeks).

I am able to protect my food while I am awake. I never sleep for more than 8 hours a day, so at 96 hours I would get 12 days on one set of batteries - assume 10 days for planning. That is very feasible and practical.

I presently use a combination of Bearvault and Ursack. I cache the Bearvault(s) to retrieve on the return leg and use the Ursack for night time protection. Sometimes I am in areas with no\limited trees for hanging and have to leave the sack on the ground with noisy things attached to awaken me if it is handled by an animal (bear bells and tyvek tarp).

As a product, assuming it functions in other regards (material, sealing, etc) the electrical charge addition is a valuable addition.

The price however is another matter. Not sure the technology warrants the cost. I expect it will drop a little if the market takes it up.

Derrick

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: I like it! on 06/13/2013 10:06:54 MDT Print View

I've liked this idea for a long time. Not only is your food protected, it gives negative reinforcement to any animal that touches it. I could just imagine a raccoon giving this thing an "inspection." (Evil grin).

The next step would be to add a pleasant but distinctive odor to the bag, creating an association built between the odor and the shock. Hopefully, an "experienced" animal wouldn't bother to even appraoch the odor.

Steven McAllister
(brooklynkayak) - MLife

Locale: Atlantic North East
Ruta Locura Palisade - Electrified Bear Bag on 06/13/2013 12:57:09 MDT Print View

I wonder how effective it is with smaller animals.

A smaller animal, raccoon, coyote, young bear,... may be able to successfully chew through an area between the contact strips.

Bears are smart. A bear could learn how to avoid the contacts. They contacts appear to be obvious and bears may learn the secret.

John Kays
(johnk) - M

Locale: SoCal
Finding the neutral zone on 06/13/2013 13:30:39 MDT Print View

....

Edited by johnk on 06/13/2013 19:17:29 MDT.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
RL Palisade on 06/13/2013 22:03:14 MDT Print View

John,
Thanks for the note on the batteries. Two AA is no problem.

But no simple way to turn it off? And you even got jolted? No way.

Assuming that gets addressed, which should be simple enough, the size (9" by 14")is a lot more than I need for a week's worth of food, but acknowledge that most hikers use more space. But that could probably be addressed, as well.

I've yet to see any signs of black bears above timberline in CO, not like grizzlies.
Will have to read up on that. The cut down Ursack I currently use is 3.2 oz. But my puppy chewed through 4 layers of the Aramid Ursack material (folded and stitched together to make webbing for a dog collar). A poster here said that bears don't have sharp teeth like puppies. Hmmm. Although timberline is not always a clear line, will have to learn more about bears frequenting the exposed areas at high altitudes to get a sense of whether the weight and expense of the Palisade might be justified.

Looks like another wait and see, but more promising than most.

Sympathize with those in bear can required areas who wait forever for bureaucrats to approve new products. Sometimes the inertia is enough to make you want to cry. Worked in the public sector myself for many years, and watching the inertia being used to cover behinds just steams me up everytime I think about it.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
RL Palisade on 06/13/2013 22:34:29 MDT Print View

I can see hours and hours of drunken fun in the woods with one of these.

I want one just to use on Adan Lopez.

John Kays
(johnk) - M

Locale: SoCal
Alternative use on 06/14/2013 08:29:18 MDT Print View

Craig, On the the other hand it could be a tad sobering thus negating the intended purpose of the liquid spirits.

@ Sam: My controller is no doubt defective and it is too expensive to replace.