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Richard R
(alaskaoneday) - MLife

Locale: Northern CA
HMG UltaMid 2 first impression and pics on 06/09/2013 13:10:26 MDT Print View

Here is a quick first impression of my new Hyperlight Mountain Gear UltaMid 2. It arrived Thursday about 15 minutes before leaving for a few days with my wife so I didn’t get a chance to check it out until today. This is my second Cuben Fiber shelter as my first was a Zpacks Hexamid Solo + and really loved the way the material worked but am getting too old to have to crawl in and out of my shelter.
Weight as shipped (everything) 19.7oz
UltaMid 2 (with perimeter guylines) 17.3oz
Extra Guyline 1.9oz
Stuff Sack .5oz

Setup was fast (perimeter guy lines are already installed at HMG) and I used my Luxurylite Big Stik for the center pole (64”). First thing I noticed is the door is on the short end as opposed to the long side like on the Duomid. This will work great when using it with two people as there is no one regulated to the ‘back side’ of the mid and will have access to the door if needed. The two upper vents have flaps on the inside that can be open or closed. So far I am pretty impressed with the shelter but will save my final verdict after using it for a while. First big test will be in Yosemite next month. I have attached a few pictures I took when I set it up so you can get a look at the mid set up.
mida
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Edited by alaskaoneday on 06/09/2013 13:17:40 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: HMG UltaMid 2 first impression and pics on 06/09/2013 13:19:43 MDT Print View

Thanks for posting this. I would have to go around and straighten out the webbing ends on the tie outs. The way they are cut sloppily like that would drive me nuts. Especially for the price.

Would be great to see some photos with pads in there.

Richard R
(alaskaoneday) - MLife

Locale: Northern CA
Pads on 06/09/2013 14:04:30 MDT Print View

Hey Ken
The next time I set it up I will get some pics with a couple of pads in there to give it some scale.

Keith F
(hamerica) - M

Locale: Northern Virginia
Re: HMG UltaMid 2 first impression and pics on 06/09/2013 14:50:11 MDT Print View

I was thinking the same thing Ken, that does look sloppy. I would like to have seen a buckle or button flap on the zipper to relieve stress but maybe since it is on the shorter side it is not as much of an issue. Otherwise it looks like a nice shelter.

Edited by hamerica on 06/09/2013 14:53:25 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: HMG UltaMid 2 first impression and pics on 06/09/2013 16:01:55 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 12:26:57 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: HMG UltaMid 2 QC issue on 06/09/2013 16:39:58 MDT Print View

I'm talking about how the two webbing pull outs are uneven in length and cut sloppily at the door. Would look at those every single time you enter and exit. Those two at least should be done with extra care. I think for the price paid that it could have been done right. And why no reinforcement buckle like MLD?

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: HMG UltaMid 2 QC issue on 06/09/2013 16:45:26 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 12:33:10 MDT.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Re: Re: HMG UltaMid 2 on 06/09/2013 17:50:53 MDT Print View

I'm just envious you have yours already. I'm about 7 weeks into my 8-12 week wait for my cuben duomid. Sniff, sniff...

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: HMG UltaMid 2 on 06/09/2013 17:57:35 MDT Print View

It is a fine looking shelter other than my minor nit picking. Hope to see one in person soon. It has a lot going for it. Would love to see a non white version.

Derrick White
(miku) - MLife

Locale: Newfoundland & Labrador, Canada
Looking Good on 06/09/2013 20:20:46 MDT Print View

Looking Good Richard. I am expecting delivery of mine in a couple of weeks.

Derrick

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: 40°N,-105°W (Near enough)
If that cuben DuoMid feels claustrophobic, Jen... on 06/09/2013 23:16:38 MDT Print View

...then I'll be more than happy to take if off your hands so you can spend more moola on the lubbly jubbly white cuben UltaMid, and get it delivered toot suite :-)

Mike Stromsoe
(phstudio) - F - M

Locale: So. Cal.
Re: Re: Re: Re: HMG UltaMid 2 on 06/10/2013 03:06:24 MDT Print View

"I'm just envious you have yours already. I'm about 7 weeks into my 8-12 week wait for my cuben duomid. Sniff, sniff.."

I know that MLD does top notch stuff, but 8 to 12 weeks is insane. That is custom one off turn around times. This is exactly why my money is going to HMG. It seems that HMG is not afraid to hire additional workers when demand requires it. Notice that there are no noticeable wait times at HMG. And yes, I have read about MLD's permutations on their website. Just hire more employees, already.

Jennifer, I'm sure your 'mid is going to be great, just saying.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
MLD on 06/10/2013 05:42:09 MDT Print View

On the flip side, it's impressive that MLD is resisting the urge to chase profits. They seem to be quite happy with the size they are and not willing to change that because they could make more money. MLD could meet demand through increasing production (and profits) or by raising prices (and profits), yet they do neither. This approach may serve them well if the industry takes a downturn.

Edited by dandydan on 06/10/2013 05:42:47 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: MLD on 06/10/2013 06:12:54 MDT Print View

They just hired another person.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Re: MLD on 06/10/2013 06:40:47 MDT Print View

Will that hurry up my mid?

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: MLD on 06/10/2013 08:09:09 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 12:32:39 MDT.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: MLD on 06/10/2013 08:53:14 MDT Print View

"No, your Mid was redirected to me."

And Dave has agreed to sell it to me.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MLD on 06/10/2013 09:05:01 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 12:30:44 MDT.

Peter S
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Thank you on 06/10/2013 09:27:47 MDT Print View

Richard. Much appreciated. That's lighter than the Tarptent SS 1 fly. New tent to wish for now...
Anyway, for that price, there's bound to be other cottage makers out there that can beat the price for the same dimensions for a pyramid cuben? BPWD? MLD? Oware?

Edited by prse on 06/10/2013 09:32:23 MDT.

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
HMG UltaMid 2 first impression and pics on 06/10/2013 21:18:18 MDT Print View

+ 1 to Dan. I was saying much the same to someone in a PM just the other day.

Richard R
(alaskaoneday) - MLife

Locale: Northern CA
Additional pictures with pad on 06/13/2013 14:56:10 MDT Print View

Got a chance to set up the mid this afternoon and got a few pics with an Exped UL 7 extra wide in it to show how much room there is. This time it is set up with a 61" center pole to check it out set up close to the ground. In the original pictures it is set up with a 64" center pole. Even set up low, there is plenty of room at the head and foot ends even on the Exped pad. The ground sheet is a Zpack ground sheet/poncho (twin size) and the bug net is a Sea to Summit Nano.

mid13
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Josh Brock
(needsAbath)

Locale: Outside
Re: Additional pictures with pad on 06/13/2013 15:20:07 MDT Print View

I almost got this instead of the 8x10 tarp but decided I wanted to be lighter and just deal with the less protection. But I love tipi shaped tents.

It looks awesome hope your happy with it!

Derrick White
(miku) - MLife

Locale: Newfoundland & Labrador, Canada
Sea to Summit Net on 06/13/2013 18:04:51 MDT Print View

Rich,

Thanks for the pics. I got notification that mine shipped today. I changed to the Ultamid 2 afterwards.

Curious about the Seas to Summit netting. How is working for you from a setup perspective? Does it have a mesh floor?

Thanks

Derrick

Edited by miku on 06/13/2013 18:06:37 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Additional pictures with pad on 06/13/2013 18:49:40 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 12:46:41 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Additional pictures with pad on 06/13/2013 18:57:22 MDT Print View

Thanks for posting the photos. Looks awesome!

David Poston
(dgposton) - F

Locale: Texas / Colorado
How many people can fit? on 06/13/2013 18:57:59 MDT Print View

Is this designed as a 2 person tent? I'm still in the market for a shelter for my wife, 3 yr old daughter, and myself. Not sure if they will go for a floorless shelter, though.

Richard R
(alaskaoneday) - MLife

Locale: Northern CA
Sea to Summit Nano on 06/13/2013 19:13:08 MDT Print View

I really like the net. It is floorless and has a thin shock cord drawstring on the bottom edge so it wraps around the bottom edge of your pad. I have not had any problems so far with it staying on and I tend to sleep very athletically. Easy out too as you can flip it off when you want to get up so no scooting to the door. Weighs about 3oz.

Peter S
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Thank you Richard on 06/14/2013 03:53:18 MDT Print View

Great photos, they say a lot. This looks like an awesome 2 person cuben pyramid shelter. The door on the short side makes it easier to live in if you are 2.

Drooling...

scree ride
(scree)
Good day for HMG on 06/14/2013 06:07:46 MDT Print View

Others are getting their tarps today, my packs coming in...
They need to hire more people to keep up with orders. You could pay them cheap so our price comes down and Mike could stand around watching them to make sure the straps are cut straight...jeez...
There was an old man, a little boy, and a donkey...
It looks like a damn nice tent for the cash. I'm envious. Thanks for the pictures.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Good day for HMG on 06/14/2013 06:25:27 MDT Print View

You could pay them cheap so our price comes down and Mike could stand around watching them to make sure the straps are cut straight...jeez..


totally.







I love sarcasm. Thanks Scree

J C
(Joomy) - M
Re: Re: Good day for HMG on 06/15/2013 00:19:17 MDT Print View

@Richard: That's an awesome set up. Love the groundsheet + bug net inner; super modular!

@Ken: I feel your pain. There seems to be a few people here who not only think their opinions are more valid than others, but also seem to feel the need to point out (as rudely as possible) whenever someone says something they think is "wrong".

Edited by Joomy on 06/15/2013 05:57:07 MDT.

Keith F
(hamerica) - M

Locale: Northern Virginia
Re: Sea to Summit Nano on 06/15/2013 04:46:10 MDT Print View

That net/poncho combination looks like a nice system, I had never considered that before. Thanks Richard.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Good day for HMG on 06/15/2013 07:43:13 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 12:46:07 MDT.

scree ride
(scree)
If you don't screw up... on 06/15/2013 08:01:31 MDT Print View

...you're not working hard enough.
When was the last time anybody here had a perfect day at work? Why all the nit picking when others don't? Everything and everybody has their flaws. While we strive for perfection, it's an imperfect world. That is the beauty of it. The world is perfect in it's own imperfection.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Good day for HMG on 06/15/2013 08:07:50 MDT Print View

"There seems to be a few people here who not only think their opinions are more valid than others, but also seem to feel the need to point out (as rudely as possible) whenever someone says something they think is "wrong"."

I do that too at times. Usually right though, most of the time. Like now.

A lot of the time I don't think the comments were intended to be rude. Just a short, blunt, cut to the chase type answer/comment because some people don't like to type a tome for every post. That lovely fog of the internet clouding how we said it tone wise.

I wish HMG all the best that they deserve. My suggestion is to pay just a little more attention to the little details. Good luck.

scree ride
(scree)
Re: Re: Good day for HMG on 06/15/2013 08:17:42 MDT Print View

Perhaps we all need to pay more attention to the details. Such is life.

Don Selesky
(backslacker) - M
Re: HMG UltaMid 2 first impression and pics on 06/15/2013 13:52:45 MDT Print View

FWIW, the Ultamid isn't on the HMG webpage today as an option under "shelters." Discontinued?

Edited by backslacker on 06/15/2013 13:53:15 MDT.

Link .
(annapurna) - MLife
Re: Re: HMG UltaMid 2 first impression and pics on 06/15/2013 13:57:23 MDT Print View

Read here Don

Don Selesky
(backslacker) - M
Re: Re: Re: HMG UltaMid 2 first impression and pics on 06/15/2013 16:49:31 MDT Print View

Ah! Thanks.

J C
(Joomy) - M
Re: Re: Re: Re: Good day for HMG on 06/15/2013 19:09:38 MDT Print View

Davey, I have no interest in continuing this idiotic spat. I think it's clear who the troll is.

Edited by Joomy on 06/15/2013 19:35:38 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good day for HMG on 06/15/2013 19:34:14 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 12:36:29 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Good day for HMG on 06/15/2013 19:38:37 MDT Print View

boys...

Edited by kthompson on 06/15/2013 19:46:12 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Good day for HMG on 06/15/2013 19:42:32 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 12:37:25 MDT.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Good day for HMG on 06/15/2013 19:47:08 MDT Print View

On the internet, nobody knows you're a Doug....

.doug

J C
(Joomy) - M
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good day for HMG on 06/15/2013 19:49:08 MDT Print View

I edited because I want this to end. You are the troll here.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Good day for HMG on 06/15/2013 19:57:05 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 12:39:05 MDT.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Re: Re: Good day for HMG on 06/15/2013 20:34:57 MDT Print View

Damn, where'd the pictures go?
I thought this was becoming a meme fight...

1

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good day for HMG on 06/15/2013 20:37:35 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 12:45:34 MDT.

Derrick White
(miku) - MLife

Locale: Newfoundland & Labrador, Canada
Another Thread Hijacked by Insults on 06/16/2013 11:17:47 MDT Print View

FWIW I as one member am getting tired of threads going off topic with people insulting each other.

This is happening increasingly here on BPL. Its really quite simple, you can disagree with an opinion and challenge it politely, but judging the person shouldn't be tolerated. That line gets crossed when you attack the person not their point.

I would wholeheartedly support those that insult others being kicked off here. You are polluting an otherwise positive and helpful community.

This thread is about the HMG Ultamid 2.

Derrick

Edited by miku on 06/16/2013 11:18:25 MDT.

Mike Allen
(michaellea62) - F

Locale: UTAH
+1 for Derrick on 06/16/2013 11:22:19 MDT Print View

Thanks Derrick, I'm with you on that one.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Another Thread Hijacked by Insults on 06/16/2013 12:55:09 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 12:45:04 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Additional pictures with pad on 06/16/2013 13:22:41 MDT Print View

That is a nice looking mid Richard! I'm thinking about buying the S2S duo nano mosquito net for my Hexamid Twin. Is this your first experience with the single and what are your thoughts about it?

Richard R
(alaskaoneday) - MLife

Locale: Northern CA
Sea to Summit Nano on 06/16/2013 17:15:14 MDT Print View

So far I am liking it. I was wondering whether it would stay on as I sleep all over the place and figured one of my arms or legs would some how pull it from under my pad but that has not happened (yet?) I found I really like not having to enter/exit through a zippered door to get in bed. I'll be taking it out next weekend to Point Reyes and then off for a week in Yosemite for more testing.

J C
(Joomy) - M
Re: Another Thread Hijacked by Insults on 06/16/2013 23:12:12 MDT Print View

"This is happening increasingly here on BPL. Its really quite simple, you can disagree with an opinion and challenge it politely, but judging the person shouldn't be tolerated. That line gets crossed when you attack the person not their point."

I am 100% with you Derrick and it was my frustration at being insulted and maligned out of the blue that started this whole nonsense.

I promised myself I wouldn't do this and I'm very sorry for dragging this out but I feel obliged to defend myself and set the record straight since many of the original posts have been edited.

Davey, this all started when you accused me of being a "troll". When I went to defend myself I said "don't be an idiot" which I feel was justified! You then went about trolling ME, hijacking other threads to harass me and get back at me like a child. I perhaps unwisely commented here on some similar behaviour directed at someone else, and you again felt the need to chime in and antagonise me. I posted a hotly worded response which I immediately deleted because I decided it was inappropriate (not to mention futile) even though it was fully warranted. You continued to post harassing and insulting comments and pictures etc. even while I was trying to put an end to things.

You may not be an idiot or an asshole normally, but you sure have acted like one towards me. I'm not a troll nor am I "super aggressive". I was trying to defend myself and get you to leave me alone. I come here to share my opinions and participate in discussions amicably and politely and I (perhaps stupidly) expected the same of others. I apologise for calling you an idiot, and to everyone else who had to witness this absurd exchange. I don't expect I will get the same courtesy from you.

Edited by Joomy on 06/16/2013 23:14:49 MDT.

James DeGraaf
(jdegraaf) - MLife

Locale: Bay Area
Re: HMG UltaMid 2 first impression and pics on 06/16/2013 23:25:54 MDT Print View

And back on topic,
What is the purpose of the "screen flap" (for lack of a cooler technical name)?
Doesn't the cover already protect the screen from precipitation?

Perhaps Ken would cut that off too, after he straightened all the webbing cut ends too.
Thanks,
James

scree ride
(scree)
Re: Re: Another Thread Hijacked by Insults on 06/17/2013 05:49:47 MDT Print View

Sounds like a PP.

Mike St.Pierre (HMG)
(HyperliteMountainGear) - M

Locale: Maine
HMG on 06/17/2013 15:10:51 MDT Print View

Hello All,

We appreciate feedback from our customers and gearheads, whether its on BPL or comes to us directly!
In our view, there is always room for improvement and HMG is constantly working to revise and refine our products, designs and manufacturing process. What our customers tell us matters -- customer feedback translates directly into product improvements, design changes and sometimes new products. This is one of the great things about doing all of our production in house: we can revise and improve our products in real time. So keep the comments coming!

p.s. The HMG production crew is already all over the webbing concern noted in this thread --- its a aesthetic, not a functional concern, but we get it --- the details on the appearance count. You've been heard and the result is an improvement in HMG's products!

Mike Allen
(michaellea62) - F

Locale: UTAH
UltaMid 2 question on 06/20/2013 21:24:36 MDT Print View

Hey you all that have bought the UltaMid 2, I have a question for you. I have narrowed my search for a new light weight tent to the Hexamid Long, MLD Duomid, and the HMG Ultamid 2 tarp/tents and have a question regarding the UltaMid 2. With the Duomid the sleeping area is in the back of the tarp and the vestibule area is in the front and when you open the door during rain you would not expose your down sleeping bag to rain, but maybe a little rain in the vestibule area. With the door on the UltaMid 2 moved to the short end of the tarp does this expose the sleeping area to rain if the door is opened? I will be using the UltaMid as a solo hiker. Thanks for your help.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: HMG on 06/20/2013 21:28:17 MDT Print View

Thanks HMG for taking my comments to heart.

Richard R
(alaskaoneday) - MLife

Locale: Northern CA
re:UltaMid 2 question on 06/20/2013 21:35:40 MDT Print View

Hey Mike
I will be taking my Ultamid 2 out Sunday and Monday and there is a chance of rain in the forecast, I will let you know how it goes.

Mike Allen
(michaellea62) - F

Locale: UTAH
UltaMid 2 question on 06/20/2013 21:42:54 MDT Print View

Thanks Richard

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: UltaMid 2 question on 06/21/2013 09:11:42 MDT Print View

I don't own the UltaMid (yet) but from one of Richard pics, it seems that if you keep one side of the door staked and only open the other, this should keep most rain from getting into your sleeping area (which would be to one side).

And, FWIW, from the pics it seems it would be pretty easy to rig up a 'room divider' from the center pole to the front door to really keep rain from that side when the door is open.

Richard R
(alaskaoneday) - MLife

Locale: Northern CA
re: UltaMid 2 question on 06/21/2013 09:25:59 MDT Print View

Quit reading my mind Doug!
I was thinking about rigging my Zpacks Cloudkilt for just that purpose. I think that there is enough protection with the one door closed but we shall see.

Richard R
(alaskaoneday) - MLife

Locale: Northern CA
HMG UltaMid question on 06/24/2013 19:52:51 MDT Print View

No problems with rain getting in using it as a single person shelter and just opening one door side. The rain wasn't a down pour but pretty constant. I did rig up my Zpacks Cloudkilt to shelter the end near the door to see how it would work and it would work great. Tried to take a pic but my camera battery died. It was nice having the extra room when everything is wet.

John Harper
(johnnyh88) - M

Locale: The SouthWest
Re: HMG UltaMid 2 on 06/26/2013 08:16:31 MDT Print View

Looks like a great setup, Richard. It should be able to handle almost anything.

For those interested, I recently purchased the Sea To Summit Nano Duo. The netting with some shockcord and two small mitten hooks weighs 3.8 oz. The collapsible pole that it came with weighs 1.2 oz (I'll probably leave the pole at home). I expect this will give me decent bug protection for a very low weight.

Philip Marshall
(philthy) - MLife
a less than glowing review on 07/11/2013 19:22:10 MDT Print View

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Ultralight-Tent-Reviews/Hyperlite-Mountain-Gear-UltaMid-2

I'd be interested to hear your experience with the waterproofness of the zipper over time Richard - this seems like a pretty big oversight to not include a flap over the zipper.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: a less than glowing review on 07/11/2013 19:39:13 MDT Print View

Their's had sloppy work on the tie out too. No bueno on the zipper, lame.

Peter S
(prse) - MLife

Locale: Denmark
Re: Re: a less than glowing review on 07/11/2013 20:16:55 MDT Print View

If only the Laufbursche Lavvu was available...better hurry up with the 2. edition HMG!

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: a less than glowing review on 07/11/2013 21:12:50 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 10/30/2013 12:35:50 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Re: Re: Re: a less than glowing review on 07/11/2013 21:19:20 MDT Print View

"Last time I checked, my MLD DuoMid didn't have a storm flap for the zipper either. No issue with the water proof zip there."


Mine did. Had plastic snaps to hold it closed.

Philip Marshall
(philthy) - MLife
Duomid on 07/11/2013 21:43:36 MDT Print View

Yeah, my duomid and supermid both have a flap over the zipper. I really like the location of the zipper on the smaller panel on the Ultamid but I think I'll wait until it has had a few tweaks before I pull the trigger on such an expensive shelter.

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - M

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: a less than glowing review on 07/12/2013 11:04:15 MDT Print View

Makes you wonder how something can be designed and tested for over a year and yet things like the storm flap squeak by. Ahh well, they will tweak it and this will only be a memory.

Ryan

Derrick White
(miku) - MLife

Locale: Newfoundland & Labrador, Canada
Hmmmm on 07/12/2013 13:01:57 MDT Print View

I just bought and have received the Ultamid 2. I have not set it up yet, but hope this is a test model defect. I hope it wasn't an oversight in design as it is a serious defect if so.

If it is a defect I am thinking it can be corrected with a cuben flap and 2 way cuben tape the full length of the flap on one side and 2-3 pieces of velcro on the other. Sewing should not be necessary and the fix could be done at home.

I noted there was no flap before I ordered it and assumed the zipper was waterproof\resistant. And it does appear to be.

I will update the forum once I get it set up and then out in the rain.

Derrick

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Zipper Flaps on 07/12/2013 13:29:25 MDT Print View

Unless I'm having a stroke, the pictures clearly show the UltraMid having a uretek (water resistant) zipper, which is the same decent zip everyone from MSR to MLD uses.

In some cases it's accompanied by a flap (ie. MLD) while other manufacturers don't bother (ie. MSR). IMO a flap over a uretek zipper is a poor idea. Flaps were always a crude way to keep rain out when using a low end non-weather resistant zip (ie. TarpTent). Think of shell jackets: low end shells have poor zippers + flap, while high end ones have good zippers. Somehow in the shelter world flaps have partially stayed around in higher end applications even though manufacturers are using better zippers which keep virtually all the water out. My cuben MLD DuoMid had one but I cut it off. The result is a simpler, lighter doorway that still keeps the rain out and doesn't have a flap constantly snagging in the zip.

No one should be wanting a flap on the HMG UltraMid. What we should be looking for is a zipper garage to guard the top (which appears to be the actual problem in the review), and secondly if you don't trust a uretek zipper to keep the weather out then we should be moving forward towards a fully waterproof zipper (ie. YKK Aquaseal/Vislon #5) rather than backwards to a flap. This is an opportunity for HMG to step up and take the shelter innovation lead. I'm sure you can justify a $20-$30 zipper in a $650 shelter.

Edited by dandydan on 07/13/2013 08:58:10 MDT.

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
How does the Ultamid 2 compare with the closest comparable-sized mids? on 07/12/2013 22:43:25 MDT Print View

+ 1 Dan. Makes sense. And a zipper garage really helps.

How does the Ultamid 2 compare with the closest comparable mids from MLD, Oware, etc. in terms of height, head room and floor space?

Anthony Weston
(anthonyweston) - MLife

Locale: Southern CA
from another post earlier on 07/12/2013 23:54:07 MDT Print View

2-Man UltaMid, $650
1.04lbs / 16.6oz
83"W x 107"L x 64"H

4-Man UltaMid, $800
1.3llbs / 20.8oz
111"W x 111"L x 75"H

HMG Ultamid 2 107 x 83 x 64H
MLD Duomid 95 x 60 x 54H
MLD Supermid 107 x 107 x 69H
HMG Ultamid 4 111 x 111 x 75H

Derrick White
(miku) - MLife

Locale: Newfoundland & Labrador, Canada
Zipper et al on 07/15/2013 15:58:00 MDT Print View

I have set up my new Ultamid 2 and can confirm the following (pictures to follow later):

1. The zipper is incredibly water resistant and +1 to Dan re the garage insight. The issue the reviewer encountered was likely caused by the absence of the garage and leakage occurring around the top of the zipper only and running down inside. The zipper is a 2-way\double zipper. This garage is very easily rectified with a piece of anything I suppose with cuben tape being the ideal. I have some, so no worries there.

2. As for interior tie outs, my tent includes 2 (unlike the reviewers), one in the center of each side panel about 1 to 1.5 feet down from the apex. Anticipating the need for more when I ordered it (for a planned Bear Paw inner net, yet to be spec'd and ordered), I asked HMG to include tie outs which I could attach myself later and they sent me 6.

3. As for the absence of the buckle at the bottom of the doors to reduce strain on the zipper, the tent functions fine without it. Accepting that sustained strain over time may weaken the zipper, this would likely be a good idea. But is all add weight of course. As it is, the 2 peg tie outs at the base of the doors provide a great points for any number of connection solutions someone may want to add themselves.

Fortunately, the noted issues, to the extent they are issues, are easily addressed. HMG may want to address it themselves on future builds, but for those of us who have ordered early, they don't pose any problem that can't be fixed at home.

In general I am very pleased with the tent. It is my first mid and even with limited experience it is very easy to get a taut pitch. It appears very strong and well sewn.

More later.

Derrick

Philip Marshall
(philthy) - MLife
prejudice on 07/15/2013 18:49:22 MDT Print View

Thanks Dan and Derrick for confounding one of my prejudices, that's why I love this site. You're right, none of my better rain jackets have a storm flap, and they take a lot more abuse/abrasion than my shelters do. It's the 21st century - no more storm flaps! (though a garage would be nice)

Would also love some reports on how the zipper on the short panel is working out - particularly when there are two occupants.

Anthony Weston
(anthonyweston) - MLife

Locale: Southern CA
ultamid on 07/16/2013 21:00:05 MDT Print View

I read the outdoorgearlabs review of the ultamid and I didn't think it was balanced review. It's a beautiful sheltor and instead of comparing it to other sheltors of a similar type like duomid, Locus Gear Knufu etc he says get a 9 oz tarp and I've been in a blizard in a 9 oz tarp in Oct in the Sierra's and I would much rather have been in a pyramid shelter. Also it depends what part of the country you are in and what conditions you face. How much good did zipper flaps ever do when the wind is blowing the rain in sideways anyway.

The price of the Ultamid is obscene at $650 but then when I look at zpacks Hexamid Long, not quite a pyramid but about the same length as the ultamid, it's going for $530 and it's a lighter cuben and does have a ground cloth built into the price, Khufu was $489 plus extra shipping charges from Japan. MLD Duomid is not as long but is $415. The Ultamid price is still obscene but functionally it does the job I want it to do and with great comfort. I don't like the foot of my sleeping bag rubbing up against the side of tent. Maybe it's my imagination but cuben doesn't seem to get condensation like silnylon and it doesn't sag. If it rains this is the sheltor I want to be in, if there is wind, snow, heat, bugs it works for me (the top vents have bug screens and I ordered the bug skirt). I'll have to put the garden hose on the zipper to test it if it leaks. Could HMG have done a better job on the top of zipper, yes, but a drop of silnet fixes it.

11

I was able to pitch it with two hiking poles and 16 inch extension pole jacks.33

I liked the bug net locking system2222

huge amount of space, I'm 5'11" and I had 15 to 20 inches above my head and about the same at my fee.xx

Robert Meurant
(rmeurant) - MLife
What a flap over rain! on 07/16/2013 21:12:53 MDT Print View

This rising prejudice against rain flaps reminds me of the Modernist prejudice against building eaves - who needs them? With the new miracle materials, we can have pure forms! No need for eaves cluttering our perfect changes in plane!

Of course, the rains came, and inevitably, eaves-less roofs leaked, as buildings settled and materials aged, or perhaps the detailing wasn't quite right, or the application by the builder or tradesman wasn't quite ideal.

Me, I much prefer the traditional rain flap to keep me dry. A little redundancy is a worthwhile asset.

Edited by rmeurant on 07/16/2013 21:14:29 MDT.

Robert Meurant
(rmeurant) - MLife
and further... on 07/16/2013 21:37:09 MDT Print View

And while I'm at it, I respectfully disagree with your (Anthony Weston's) comment:

"How much good did zipper flaps ever do when the wind is blowing the rain in sideways anyway."

Firstly, proper rain flaps as on the Locus Gear Khufu and I presume the MLD Duomid, are held down by velcro.

Secondly, the purpose of a rain flap is not to provide a 100% seal against rain penetration. What it is designed to do is to break the speed of the wind-driven rain, so that it is much slower, and reduce the effective water pressure, so that the water can be disposed of by the design elements of the opening - the slope of the wall, allowing gravity to drain the rain, and possibly ridges of seams and zip to provide small upstands, which also help channel and drain the rain.

Edited by rmeurant on 07/16/2013 22:00:10 MDT.

David Alexander
(davidta) - MLife

Locale: New York City
Ultra Mid Question on 08/20/2013 14:00:25 MDT Print View

I recieved my Ultra Mid the other week and have only been able to set it up in a freinds back yard once (I live in NYC). I will give it its firt real test over labor day. I have a revised version where they have added a zipper garage and snaps to relieve pressure on the zipper when zipped. I have a question for the few other ultra mid users out there, I was wondering what people are doing withthe tie out loops, are they running lines from the bottom edge tie outs to a single stake and up to the loops or using seperate lines with an additional stake for each tie out loop?

Edited by davidta on 08/20/2013 14:01:46 MDT.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Rain and snowfall on 08/20/2013 19:37:21 MDT Print View

Now just open the door(s) and let the rain or snow in.

Nuff sed.

Edited by Danepacker on 08/20/2013 19:37:52 MDT.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Flaps on 08/20/2013 20:40:19 MDT Print View

"...proper rain flaps...are held down by velcro."

You can certainly argue that a robust rain flap has some protective value - and I agree they do add some function - but it's not the ideal approach. By the time you've added extra fabric and velcro you've added a fair bit of weight and complexity for a crude solution. The outcome is a more complex and heavier doorway that is more of a hassle to use as you battle with the velcro. A better solution is to utilize to a zipper that is weatherproof enough that it doesn't need a flap. This approach is simpler, lighter and easier to use. It's also more robust, since high winds can't open a #5 toothed zipper nearly as easily as they can a velcro secured flap.

In my opinion, water resistance "uretek" zippers are good enough to be used without a flap (ie. it's standard in the jacket world), but if you're rather have something even more robust, I referenced some high end zippers that are fully wind and water proof in my earlier post. These waterproof higher gauge toothed zippers are a more elegant solution, as they have a lower probably of weather ingress, and they're also much nicer to use (smoother) than a low end zipper - and they hold up better to regular wear like sand. My guess is the evolutionary outdoor industry will start to use them in 3-5 years and label it is a new breakthrough.

Edited by dandydan on 08/20/2013 20:42:22 MDT.

Robert Meurant
(rmeurant) - MLife
No need to get into a flap... wisdom tech on 08/20/2013 21:05:23 MDT Print View

I don't agree the rain flap is a crude solution - the area of velcro is quite small, but the key fact is not that velcro is used, but that some means is used to approximately hold the flap down, thus allowing reduction in water velocity and pressure, so the water can drain away, and is not forced into and through the zip area. I find it an elegant, and time-proven solution.

But if you use only zips, without flaps, as you suggest, what happens when the zip fails in a remote area? e.g. someone stands on the zip with crampons? Then, you are likely screwed. But with a flap,a vertical zipped opening can be secured just by stakes, or you could even sew a temporary closure to the lapped opening with cord.

More to the point, I think the tendency towards minimalism in UL philosophy at times becomes too extreme, so there is little or no redundancy. It is really an aesthetic, which in part I relate to, in that it tends towards a reduction of paraphernalia to what is considered essential. But (in my opinion) it is then taken too far. Then it becomes not a wise policy in the wilds, which are, by their nature, unpredictable.

Edit: Of course I meant lace, rather than sew...

Edited by rmeurant on 08/21/2013 04:12:33 MDT.

Richard R
(alaskaoneday) - MLife

Locale: Northern CA
Tie out loops on 08/20/2013 21:06:08 MDT Print View

David
I have not used the panel tie outs at this point as I have not encountered high enough winds to cause any real deflection of the sides (yet). When I do need them, I will use a separate line to it's own stake. I am interested in seeing any pics you might have of how they implemented the zipper garage and bottom snaps.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Flaps on 08/20/2013 22:18:47 MDT Print View

Robert, I imagine we both like the idea of a minimalism, while also appreciating redundancy where it's truly important. I carry redundant gear in some areas (ie. firestarting methods, waterproof pack + drybag for my sleeping quilt on some trips).

Ultimately I suspect we both want to achieve the same thing: an acceptably low risk of failure via the lightest/cheapest/simplest/most elegant design. To that, I submit that:

1) A higher gauge zipper is less likely to fail (break) than a lower gauge zip + flap
For the weight of a flap + velcro, you could instead opt for a larger gauge zipper. So whatever flap + zipper combo you can imagine, I submit that putting that weight into a beefier zipper will be (1) lighter and/or (2) less failure prone. While this choice is never directly given to consumers, we're debating theoretical designs so I think it's fair to bring up.

2) A very weatherproof zipper is less likely to fail (let water in) than a modestly weatherproof zip + flap
There are zippers that are extremely good at keeping out wind and water. These zippers are used on marine safety equipment like full body survival suits for crew abandoned on the ocean. In my opinion, a shelter with one of these stands a better chance of keeping the wind and rain out than a shelter using a modestly weatherproof (or not weatherproof at all) zipper plus a flap which can be torn open by high winds. Pragmatically, both designs are likely totally sufficient but theoretically I suspect the waterproof zip wins.
http://www.ykkeurope.com/en/news/2011/01/14/aquaseal/

3) A flap doesn't make field repairs substantially easier.
Ideally we'd have a design that doesn't break (which is what #1 gets at), but of course anything can always break so it's smart to have gear that can be repaired. Since this is an unlikely thing, we don't need a fantastic way to repair the tent, but just something simple and do-able. With a flap-free design, I suppose I'd have to use a needle and actually sew in a closure system with cord - much like you would with a flap unless fortuitous weather allowed the camper to gamble on just using velcro. So a velcro flap system has the advantage of avoiding temporary repair if the weather is nice.

4) Flap-free designs are nicer to use
A flap free design makes for a more fluid ingress/egress experience. There's no velcro re-adhering while you're trying enter, nor is there is a flap jumping in the path of the zipper slider to cause a jam when you're dashing for a pee in the night. Plus a larger gauge zip simply works better (smoother) with less hiccups from sand etc. This is really my main motivation, and why I refer to flap-free designs as being more elegant.

BTW, MLD doesn't use velcro on their flaps (or at least the ones I've seen).

Edited by dandydan on 08/20/2013 22:28:23 MDT.

David Alexander
(davidta) - MLife

Locale: New York City
Pictures on 08/20/2013 22:55:03 MDT Print View

I will try and take some pictures for you next weekend when I get it set up of the zipper garage implementation and the snaps. As far as the zipper garage goes though it is just a cuben fiber square just below the logo that covers the top of the zipper and I don't think it is even as long as the entire pull of the zipper.

Robert Meurant
(rmeurant) - MLife
Flaps up! on 08/21/2013 05:44:43 MDT Print View

Dan,

You might well be right.

My opinions are colored somewhat by some of the radical buildings appearing here (Seoul), with free-form geometries and very organic shapes - generally museums and similar public buildings. They have very high-tech surfaces, with butt-jointed curved panels, and no real external definition of walls, roof or floor (though they are tending to plant grass on the topmost sections). They both fascinate and repulse me.

Jeongok Paleolithic Museum

Their aesthetic strikes me as being unnatural, notwithstanding their organic shapes and snake scale-like cladding. Unnatural, because they do not pay proper homage to gravity, and to the elemental forces of nature.

Dongdaemun History & Culture Park (under construction)

By contrast, traditional architecture tends to respond with subtle mastery to the environmental forces from which it provides shelter, of sun, wind, rain and snow.

Daepyeong Museum exhibit, near Jinju

I agree your point 2 re survival suit zips is quite relevant, excepting that I would like my wilderness experience to be more than survival, and more a dwelling (verb) in the wild; I want my shelter to celebrate beingness in the cosmos, which is something traditional (sacred) architecture does provide. The environment in which I then operate is not just the physical, but extends to the metaphysical.

For somewhat similar reasons, I disagree with your point 4; for me, the act of passage through a doorway partakes of a ritual movement from one state of being to another. Traditional architecture is rich in this sense of gesture and ceremonial transition, so the notion of sweeping a curtain aside to pass through, of allowing it to sometimes partially close the opening, to act as a screen, like a veil that reveals as it conceals, which is something that I find more satisfying.

Paeleolithic shelter at Jeongok

When I look at nature, I see the flap in many guises, in the eyelid, the fingernail, and the overhang of the brow. By contrast, I don't see the butt joint in (animate) nature; and even tectonic plates, where they meet, slide upon one another. I see your reductionism to a minimal serviceable opening as a machine aesthetic, that reduces the richness of spatial gesture and of depth of meaning to an idealized homogenized purity of instantaneous transition and transformation. But I would like to dwell, as I pass through, to metamorphize; as I would like the rain to take its time, in shedding itself from my shelter, to pond and to drip, and to evaporate...

So the tent/tarp/shelter becomes not just a highly functional machine, but an expression of something deeper, of some valued insight into the heart of nature.

At this point, I think I can sense the stars preparing to barf on me, so I had better shut up. As I said at the start, you may well be right; and I appreciate your insights and speculations...

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Flaps on 08/21/2013 06:47:54 MDT Print View

I agree with Dan. Once the door is zipped up, how do you close the flap against the Velcro?

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Flaps and Stars on 08/21/2013 08:11:56 MDT Print View

"I see your reductionism to a minimal serviceable opening as a machine aesthetic, that reduces the richness of spatial gesture and of depth of meaning to an idealized homogenized purity of instantaneous transition and transformation. But I would like to dwell, as I pass through, to metamorphize; as I would like the rain to take its time, in shedding itself from my shelter, to pond and to drip, and to evaporate..."

Great post Robert. It's hard to argue against a missive that beautiful, so I won't try. I think we've both explained our sides well.

Okay one little thing: These high end zippers I've referenced do still use flaps, just at a different scale. They incorporate rubber micro-flaps along the edges of every tooth to seal each to the next. Maybe there's some beauty in that.

Robert Meurant
(rmeurant) - MLife
s/f on 08/21/2013 21:49:31 MDT Print View

Fukushima doorway
Peace, bro.

Edited by rmeurant on 08/21/2013 21:52:00 MDT.