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Christopher Kuzak
Shelter on 06/09/2013 16:54:02 MDT Print View

Rusty, That's pretty cool looking. Did it work in terms of increasing the storm and bug worthiness?

Edited by KC on 06/09/2013 16:54:54 MDT.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
lair on 06/09/2013 16:55:12 MDT Print View

Ask bpwd about it, it's a great shelter because it only takes 1 pole and I'd surprisingly roomy, if I had to I could fit two people in mine I'd there was a rainstorm. It's bigger than the hexamid solo.

Richard Cullip
(RichardCullip) - M

Locale: San Diego County
GG The One on 06/09/2013 17:15:20 MDT Print View

I'm very happy with my Gossamer Gear The One. Unfortunately they are taking their time in getting the redesign back to market.

Rusty Beaver
(rustyb) - F

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Re: Shelter on 06/09/2013 17:42:48 MDT Print View


Thanks. I've used it a number of times since those mods but in seasons that bugs were not bad. I've only been rained on twice too....both short rains. Obviously, it's going to be heads and shoulders above the stock Hexamid when there's wind involved.

That said, there's nothing about it that leads me to believe that it won't work great in prolonged showers....or where the flying bugs are least in the environments I'm in (Rocky Mountain region). If the crawling bugs were unusually bad, I could see wanting more than a perimeter skirt. I just don't see a lot of those bugs that are bothersome where I go.

For my needs/wants, it's damned near perfect.

Christopher Gilmore
(chrisjgilmore) - F - MLife

Locale: New Almaden
Solo Shelters on 06/09/2013 22:55:49 MDT Print View

Can you throw up some pics of your Lair?


Christopher Kuzak
Lair on 06/09/2013 23:03:51 MDT Print View

Same question as Christopher--can you throw up some pics of the Lair?

Many thanks.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
lair on 06/10/2013 01:16:08 MDT Print View


Edited by M.L on 06/10/2013 01:22:59 MDT.

josh jordan
Lair on 06/10/2013 05:18:52 MDT Print View

hope this works. this was my first time setting it up so please forgive the not so perfect pitch but still not bad for the first time.

sorry but i clearly have no idea how to post

btw weight is 20.4 oz w/ tarp, stakes, lines and stuff sack. btw I do not remember what stakes i'm using but i'm sure their our lighter options out there.

Edited by jjchgo on 06/10/2013 08:52:56 MDT.

Tom Lyons
(towaly) - F

Locale: Smoky Mtns.
SMD Gatewood Cape. on 06/10/2013 06:52:52 MDT Print View

SMD Gatewood Cape and inner serenity net tent.
Even if you don't want to use it for multi-purpose as raingear.

It's a true double-wall shelter that's 19 ounces total. This not only prevents bugs from getting in, but double-wall also prevents most/all condensation from getting on you, which is the problem with most of the single-wall shelters which are usually mentioned.

It has excellent coverage on all sides, and has a zippered door that can tie back.
The floor is a real floor that can keep water out, which is not the case with any tents using mesh as a floor.

The inner net tent can be left home if you are going out when you don't need it, so you don't have to carry it in situations where the outer tarp alone would suffice. Conversely, if you have a clear night and want to star-gaze, you can just set up the inner net tent if you want to.

And even though it is commonly thought around here that it isn't good to have the poncho be your shelter too, I disagree, and it can be very effectively used in a dual role, which is one of the central aims of SUL backpacking.

When you consider all these points, including the weight for what it can do, and the price, you will have a very hard time finding anything else that can really compete with it. To compete, it would have to be a cuben fiber set-up with separate rain gear that would cost much more money, and even then it would have very little or no weight advantage over the GC.

Kevin Babione
(KBabione) - MLife

Locale: Pennsylvania
Gatewood Cape in Cuben on 06/10/2013 08:27:11 MDT Print View

On the Six Moon Designs website Ron suggests that they're looking at "doing the Gatewood Cape in Cuben."

By itself the Silnylon GC isn't that heavy (mine is 13.23 ounces with six stakes and guylines) but I'm guessing that doing it in Cuben will cut the weight almost in half.

Herbert Sitz

Locale: Pacific NW
Gatewood/Serenity not 19 ounces on 06/10/2013 08:59:42 MDT Print View

"It's a true double-wall shelter that's 19 ounces total."

No, it's not 19 ounces total. I ordered a Gatewood Cape and Serenity nettent a few months ago expecting around 19 ounces for the pair. Instead the pair was 22.3 ounces, plus you need to add six stakes to that. The "Serenity 8 ounce Nettent" came in at 9.9 ounces. The Gatewood "11 ounce shelter" came in at 12.3. I emailed Ron Moak and response was that published weights are set when product is first released (i.e., years ago for Gatewood and Serenity) and that it's "not possible" to update published weights later when materials and/or production runs change. (The issue with Serenity was changed materials, similar to what was discussed in thread last year for Haven nettent, which also weighs several ounces over published weight.)

So while Gatewood/Serenity might be nice combination, it's not a 19 ounce combination. At least not currently. I assume you can contact SMD directly to find current shipping weights, but that's a step that shouldn't be required, IMO.

Edited by hes on 06/10/2013 09:04:01 MDT.

Christopher Kuzak
Shelters on 06/10/2013 09:12:58 MDT Print View

Michael and Josh, thanks for the pics, though I had trouble with the links provided (probably my network).

I guess I'll hold off on the Gatewood Cape given the weight. I'd rather go up a couple ounces and get something fully enclosed.

I'm surprised by the 20 oz weight of the Lair. I figured it would be less given the listed weight of the tarp itself on the website. That's with inner net too I guess or in Silnylon? Looks like combining it with the MLD bug bivy in bug season would get it down to a pound.

Edited by KC on 06/10/2013 09:14:21 MDT.

josh jordan
Lair on 06/10/2013 09:53:08 MDT Print View

yeah i'm not thrilled about the weight either but then again where I came from, its damn good. yes that is w/ the netting. now you have me thinking, i'm gonna bring it into work w/ me tomorrow to check the weight of just the tarp w/o everything else.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
lair on 06/10/2013 09:58:42 MDT Print View

Mine is only 16 ounces, maybe you got a heavy batch of being out some thick sil for the floor.

josh jordan
Re: lair on 06/10/2013 10:15:34 MDT Print View

or it could be the scales here at work now that I think about it. damn that would suck having to re-weigh on the bright side, "I" might lose some weight.

Bob Bankhead
(wandering_bob) - MLife

Locale: Oregon, USA
Gatewood Cape in Cuben on 06/10/2013 10:37:54 MDT Print View

This is easy to visualize. Whether or not it occurs is up to SMD.

Based on the ratio of the weights for a silnylon Skyscape Trekker (24 oz) vs. a CF Skyscape X (15 oz), a Gatewood Cape in 0.74 Cuben would weigh about 7 ounces. These are the exact same shelter; only the material changes.

15/24 = X/11
24X = 11 x 15
X = (11 x 15)/24
X = 6.875 ounces

I also compared the cost difference due solely to material changes by comparing the pricing for the Skyscape series. At $550, the Cuben Skyscape X is twice the cost of the $225 silnylon Skyscape Trekker. Logic suggests this ratio would hold true for converting any other SMD shelter from silnylon to Cuben. Accordingly, I estimate that a $135 silnylon GC would cost approximately $270 in Cuben.


Edited by wandering_bob on 06/10/2013 10:45:12 MDT.

Tom Lyons
(towaly) - F

Locale: Smoky Mtns.
Re: Gatewood/Serenity not 19 ounces on 06/10/2013 10:39:06 MDT Print View

My GC is much lighter than yours, and it's a fairly new one.
It's less than 19 ounces as a combination.
Of course, that isn't even mentioning that it's saving me from carrying at least 12 ounces of unnecessary rain suit, since it doubles as a very good poncho, making it's weight to performance ratio just that much better.

I'd suggest that EVERY other manufacturer out there has variation in their actual product weights. My Western Mountaineering bag is a little bit more than it is spec'd out at, but I allow for that with hand made products of premium quality like SMD and WM, and even MLD which has been reported to be an ounce over on some things from time to time, and under on others.

And for Christopher, the GC is fully enclosed with the inner net tent as part of the package.

And Kevin B, thanks for mentioning that Ron might do a GC in cuben fiber! I immediately sent Ron an email endorsing that idea, and saying that I would buy one of the first ones he makes.

I hope Ron does make the GC in cuben fiber. I have been hoping for that product for years. IMO, the GC is the best solo shelter available for SUL use, and in cuben there would be nothing else that could even come close.

Edited by towaly on 06/10/2013 11:13:56 MDT.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Skyscape X on 06/10/2013 13:27:11 MDT Print View

My choice, if I wanted to spend that much, would definitely be the Skyscape X. (And maybe with a Cuben front "porch" as well if I expected rain. Gotta have SOMEwhere to cook.