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G.G.G. 6 A few changes I'd like to run by you.
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Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: All up in there
Re: G.G.G. 6 A few changes I'd like to run by you. on 08/28/2013 19:23:41 MDT Print View

Geez, not another G. 3's plenty. I have not made the official announcement, but those are the dates I'm thinking about.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: All up in there
G.G.G. 6 A few changes John A proposes. on 08/28/2013 19:39:22 MDT Print View

Excellent insight as always John. I think that this event is still far enough off the radar for most manufacturers. If they have a booth at OR, chances are they would never come. The cottage folk that we love so much seem to roam the floor and mingle.

More light is not a problem. Easy fix. So is a better layout of people and tents for better traffic flow through.

I PM those coming from out of the area giving any support I can. No need to clog up the thread with info that 99% don't need.

Safety and Safety. It has gotten to the size now that statistics are no longer in my favor. Something will happen, I know. This is where I need help and volunteers. Advice from anyone who has put together a large group in an outdoor setting is welcome as well.

I like the idea of some shirts or something to differentiate the host and helpers from the rest. I am able to contact the ranger and the HQ directly if emergency arises.

I got to get busy. It's right around the corner.

Those with children. Is this a bad weekend for you guys with school or anything?

Manfred Kopisch
(Orienteering) - F
Weekend of January 24-26 works fine for our school children on 08/28/2013 19:50:30 MDT Print View


All school districts are different - so I can only speak for our children. I checked the calendar and the proposed weekend of 1/24-26 works just fine.

Best Regards,


peter vacco

Locale: no. california
Re: Re: Re: G.G.G. 6 A few changes I'd like to run by you. on 08/29/2013 07:22:08 MDT Print View

so ; i was strolling around the parking area at Sailor Flat, and noticing that it's big, nearly flat'ish, free, tree'd, has a beautiful hike to the American River right next door, is near a historic mine or two, and is sissy 4x4 friendly but has lots of 2x4 parking on the access road, morning sun, and nice views, i thought it might be ideal for a group camp. it's been hit hard in the past so it's not like we can muck it up.
just a thought for the future (no thoughts for the past today ...) .
might put an end to parks, fees, rules, and other annoyances.
it will though, be under about 6' of snow in January.

Ken does us a great favor with these gatherings.


Jason G
(JasonG) - F

Locale: iceberg lake
winter? why? on 08/29/2013 22:08:22 MDT Print View

Why not make it the weekend before daylight saving time change. which would be oct 26. it has close to no possibility of snowing and it stays lighter longer...
I live in the bay area and have never attended mainly because i didn't want to stand around a campsite freezing in the dark from 4:45-?...

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Relocation on 08/29/2013 22:23:07 MDT Print View

Ken said you all are coming to Wisconsin. End of story.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: All up in there
Re: winter? here's why on 08/29/2013 22:55:41 MDT Print View

I'm hiking that weekend usually with some BPLrs.

January can be quite mild. We've seen short sleeves and we've seen snow.

Really it is to help combat cabin fever. Let people get out and play with things they got for the holidays. Gives people time to meet and plan trips together for the upcoming season. Most people are not camping that weekend, so conflicts of scheduling is less of a problem. It's tradition. We all have the gear to be comfortable outside in those conditions and nobody complains about the weather. It's easy to get a reservation too. Anyway.

You can always come out for the day.

Jeremy and Angela
(requiem) - F

Locale: Northern California
Re: G.G.G. 6 A few changes John A proposes. on 08/30/2013 03:07:43 MDT Print View

Random thoughts based on suggestions up-thread:

1. Signage: vinyl signs (2'x4') are fairly durable and re-usable; useful to mark out areas or directions. Suggest "Medical", "Registration", "Vendors", "Event", etc. Short lengths of caution tape between trees can set up implied boundaries for larger areas. (No need to fully fence areas.)

2. A large ship's bell. Hoisting a sign and ringing a bell to mark the start of an event should get people's attention, especially when schedules aren't fixed.

3. A medical tent, or at least a large tarp or two to shield an area, with basic first aid supplies available. I only have WFA/CPR/CERT, but I'm sure there are plenty of people out there with much more training.

4. Badges. Ribbon-type lanyards, 3/4 inch thick, can be kept visible even if someone dons a puffy (very likely). You can also color code them; e.g. yellow for staff, blue for medical, etc. Larger plastic badges (4"x8") are easily seen and you can stick to very simple designs and wording, but may be too costly.

5. Good idea about fire extinguishers, especially with a stove contest.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: G.G.G. 6 A few changes I'd like to run by you. on 09/05/2013 11:18:24 MDT Print View

Hey Ken. I would have chimed in sooner, but, well you know.

Before I go into my forthcoming diatribe, I should echo a couple of previous comments...

- Bathroom Situation: Was not an issue for me. The other bathroom was fine as well (though not lit when I checked it out). I was aware of it because of familiarity with the area. I can see how others would have missed it all together if they didn't venture up the road.

- Gear Swap (or any "breakaway" activity for that matter): Since the first one of these I've never known when or where the swap was taking place, in some cases I felt like people were just laying out there wares on their own for whoever was around to check out (less a swap and more a garage sale). In previous years there were some other activities that were "scheduled" but not really scheduled. The info tent was great last year, putting an actual schedule in there and having someone rally the launch of the activities per the schedule would be nice.

Anyway, you and I have chatted a little about the growth and intention of the GGG before, I'll sort of re-iterate here for any open feedback. When I first started coming it was already a decent crowd, seems to be getting larger every year with more family and kids going on. The first one of these I came to felt more... uh, shall I say "pro adult-fun". Last year we had the two camps, one for families, and one for... berserkers?? well, the other one whoever it was for :)

Going forward I think it would benefit the event to unify the vision of what it is. You know I'm very pro-family, but I sort of liked the punk rock version of boozing it up, jumping through the fire, and the naked yeti hunt out in the snow at midnight... thinking back, all of that may have been just me, I was pretty stoned on codeine and Old Rasputin.

I think if this is going to be a family friendly event then it should really be done proper. Safety has been mentioned. Some more organization is needed across the board. It will take a few people to "run it" and a leader to lead them (I think we know that is you, Ken).

Once upon a time I was in a similar position. We started with a small group of adults who had a common interest. Initially we had some casual fun gatherings, fast forward a couple years and growth brought the need for organization. People were bringing their family, kids, friends... there were people in the group who we didn't know, some concerns were being raised. It changed the dynamic for sure. We eventually filed for 501(c)(3) status and were approved. This meant having a Board of Directors, bylaws, meetings and meeting minutes, bank account, blah blah blah. It changed people's expectations of what it was all about (this had nothing to do with the outdoors by the way, another hobby...) which brought with it an expectation that the org would be responsible for everyone at our events, and eventually the question of event insurance, which in some cases was required by the venue.

I'm rambling a little, but my point is: organizing can be a slippery slope. There's something to be said for hosting casual events where everyone is responsible for their self and/or family.

I guess after having said all of that, I would see it as a positive if the official GGG became a family friendly event with more organization, safety, and family fun. At the same time I'd hope that a smaller core group of responsible adults would be down to get together *unofficially* some other time in the year, swap some stories, some gear, some single malt... whatever else, without all the hoopla. I think we sorta do do that already. Well, food for thought.

Andrew F
(andrew.f) - F

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: GGG 6.0 on 09/05/2013 11:33:47 MDT Print View

Jacob, that sounds like a lot of work for what is a glorified weekend of camping in the woods. I for one don't think the GGG needed more organization than last year and I would be happy if 2014 turns out as an exact repeat of 2013. Ken clearly puts a lot of work into organizing it, and I'm not sure that creating more work for him would actually make the event any better.

In my opinion it's fine if the schedule is fluid and organic. Except maybe for the gear swap, which as you noted never really happened in a cohesive fashion. But then again I'm not going to GGG to buy gear, I'm going to hang out with other BPL'ers.

Jacob D
(JacobD) - F

Locale: North Bay
Re: Re: GGG 6.0 on 09/05/2013 11:46:07 MDT Print View

Andrew, I think I agree with you on all points. That was sort of my point... It seems that there are suggestions (prior to mine) for more organization, safety, identifying medically capable people, signage, etc...

My post was more of a cautionary tale of "a little organization" can be the edge of a slippery slope that morphs into a lot of work. When events have the appearance of being organized they tend to draw bigger crowds, who in turn can have certain expectations.

If there is a medical tent and certain people are singled out as responders, or some type of first aid support, what if someone gets injured and doesn't receive what they consider to be proper assistance? With people we know, is it an issue? No. But as more new faces show up, well you don't know exactly how they think, who they are, or what they expect. If the event doesn't "officially" have any medical support, aid responders, or explicit safety measures then there's no expectation for them to be in place. In other words, everyone responsible for their own safety and well being.

In my experience (and I'm only one person giving my opinion) these aren't the sort of things you want to have half in place, you either do them properly or don't do them at all, which is why I feel the GGG is sort of at a fork in the road, to organize... or not to.

Edited by JacobD on 09/05/2013 11:47:12 MDT.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: All up in there
Re: GGG 6.0 on 09/05/2013 16:15:14 MDT Print View

Thanks for your thoughts and experience Jacob. I see that we can't grow our numbers much larger at this event. It is already such a big crowd that I don't get enough time with many of you. I know some others feel the same. Goes by so fast. Getting a venue that can hold a larger group than what the Staff at Henry Coe let us get away with is problematic at best. Very complicated and expensive too. More work. We were only 10 shy of being at our limit last time.

I'm for an all adult meet like the early ones. Last couple of years have been a very different situation. Having manufacturers there put a different slant on things too. They love us, but a bigger group must be better for business and make the trip more worthwhile for them. Texas and Oregon are not so close. It's an 8 hour drive for me to get there. Anyway.

I have nothing set in stone yet for 2014. I welcome your input.
I do spend quite a bit of time putting this together. But I still enjoy doing so. I don't want to deal with all those complications; insurance, etc. Even now I don't do it alone. Thanks to all of those who pitch in and provide. Special props to Marc for the water truck and firewood. Cameron for the best beer.

Maybe we could alternate years for allowing minors. just a thought.