Forum Index » Editor's Roundtable » Mountain SuperUltraLight Backpacking – Going SUL in the Mountains with Adequate Shelter, Insulation, and Rain Protection. Part 3: M-SUL Base Weight Gear Lists


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Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: For shame... on 06/06/2013 07:20:55 MDT Print View

I should have know better that post a comment on a site populated by fanatics.

Craig... a fanatic! That made me laugh out loud!

Mobius... always take Craig with a gram of salt. Or soap. He's been known to exaggerate... on purpose.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: missing some basics on 06/06/2013 08:15:24 MDT Print View

"It is Human to Human that transmits diseases. You cannot get a new disease from anything your own body produces. It is the other guy you have to watch out for."

I've never been sure about that. Maybe if you take bacteria from your colon and put them in your stomach you could have a problem?

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Re: Re: Re: missing some basics on 06/06/2013 10:11:00 MDT Print View

"I've never been sure about that. Maybe if you take bacteria from your colon and put them in your stomach you could have a problem?"

Well, maybe...
e.Coli is commonly found throughout the intestinal area. Occasionally in the stomach, but I believe simple paristolosis keeps the numbers down to a minimum when coupled with lining-shed, and enzymes/chemicals produced for normal digestion.
Here is an excerpt from the Centers for Disease Control:

Escherichia coli (E. coli) bacteria normally live in the intestines of people and animals. Most E. coli are harmless and actually are an important part of a healthy human intestinal tract. However, some E. coli are pathogenic, meaning they can cause illness, either diarrhea or illness outside of the intestinal tract. The types of E. coli that can cause diarrhea can be transmitted through contaminated water or food, or through contact with animals or persons.

E. coli consists of a diverse group of bacteria. Pathogenic E. coli strains are categorized into pathotypes. Six pathotypes are associated with diarrhea and collectively are referred to as diarrheagenic E. coli.

(from http://www.cdc.gov/ecoli/general/index.html#where)
Again, this is a "maybe".
I spent a couple hours looking trhough all the medical stuff on line, but I didn't run across it, though there was some mention of it that infants could be suseptible. Unclear if this applies to adults due to socization or biology. All the documents were pretty much like the above. If you use resonable precautions, like a clean spoon, boiling foods, using your other hand for eating "Arabic" style, I don't think there is much to worry about.

Again, if you have one of the above mentioned pathogenic types, you will likly be imune to it anyway, since you *must* have had it *sometime before* going hiking for it to be present. Or, it is no longer present and poses no threat, since you would be sick if it was present. Sort of a Catch 22. You surley wouldn't go camping if you already were sick. But, you MIGHT be "that other person" if you go with a group.

Unclear...like you say...

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: e.Coli on 06/06/2013 10:35:11 MDT Print View

You'll know if you get the wrong kind of e.Coli. My daughter had a bout a few years ago and spent the better part of a week in the hospital. Believe me, you don't ever want to go there. Wash your hands and make sure the cook does! A small vial of liquid soap and another of alcohol gel hand cleaner won't throw your base weight out of whack.

It sounds like your mother, but she was right :)

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: missing some basics on 06/06/2013 10:54:58 MDT Print View

How good is the soap for the environment?

Take away: don't shake hands with a stranger.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: missing some basics on 06/06/2013 18:25:29 MDT Print View

"I've never been sure about that. Maybe if you take bacteria from your colon and put them in your stomach you could have a problem?"

One way to find out.... ;o)

Might there be a reason why Mommy told you to wash your hands after doing number 2?

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: For shame... on 06/06/2013 18:44:02 MDT Print View

"I should have know better that post a comment on a site populated by fanatics. The weights in Will's most excellent article are listed down to thousandths of an ounce or tenth of a gram. To strive for such accuracy and leave out essential items seems like an over-site to me. And yes, I DO consider soap, map, compass and car key essential. After all I would like to be able to return home at the end of my trip."

Mobius me lad, you yourself have left out the most essential item of all, and it weighs nothing: A sense of humor. :0)

John Coyle
(Bigsac)

Locale: NorCal
Mountain SuperUltraLight Backpacking – Going SUL in the Mountains with Adequate Shelter etc. on 06/06/2013 23:18:05 MDT Print View

Nice article with lots of good ideas. When I backpack though, I simply must take something for enlightenment, a book, a Kindle, a small radio, an mp-3, lightweight binoculars, even an Overton Whistle. I mean come on, when you get to camp what are you going to do, just sit there and twiddle your thumbs?

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: Mountain SuperUltraLight Backpacking – Going SUL in the Mountains with Adequate Shelter etc. on 06/07/2013 00:06:30 MDT Print View

I practice random bushcrafty skills in camp. Catch some fish, gather some edibles, twist some natural cordage, carve a spoon, practice fire skills, or whatever. I will also try to climb anything climbable around camp.

Henk Smees
(theflyingdutchman) - MLife

Locale: Spanish Mountains
"take something for enlightenment" on 06/07/2013 02:41:21 MDT Print View

>I mean come on, when you get to camp what are you going to do, just sit there and twiddle your thumbs?<

When I'm out with friends, we talk and have a great time (can't tell jokes reading a book); when I'm on my own (not often but it happens sometimes), I walk all day (12 to 14 hours) and then, the only thing I want to do, is have a nice *warm* meal and go to bed - no energy left for anything else :(.

Edited by theflyingdutchman on 06/07/2013 02:45:04 MDT.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Mountain SuperUltraLight Backpacking – Going SUL in the Mountains with Adequate Shelter etc. on 06/07/2013 17:35:39 MDT Print View

"When I backpack though, I simply must take something for enlightenment, a book, a Kindle, a small radio, an mp-3, lightweight binoculars, even an Overton Whistle. I mean come on, when you get to camp what are you going to do, just sit there and twiddle your thumbs?"

Maybe just find a nice, comfy place to sit, motionless and silent, and pay attention to what is going on around you? The means to draw a little closer to enlightenment are all around you, and they neither weigh anything nor take up any space in your pack.

C Nugget
(nuggetwn)

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: food weight for 5 days on 06/07/2013 20:06:00 MDT Print View

" Mike C! has thoroughly tested food weights and advocates (last I checked anyway) 1.2 lbs (or 19 oz) per person per day. "

I could be wrong or maybe his opinion has changed, but in his book, "Ultralight Backpackin' Tips: ... " Mike Clelland's formula was worked out to 1.4lbs per person per day.

Food weight is individual both by how one goes about calculating amounts & by end weight. Mike C's approach was a great starting point for myself. I was able to exit with zero food on my last 9 day trip in the Grand Canyon.

B) ;P :)

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: food weight for 5 days on 06/07/2013 20:36:27 MDT Print View

"Food weight is individual both by how one goes about calculating amounts & by end weight."

+1

That said, if one is willing to include a certain amount of body fat in their dietary calculations, 19 oz/day is not unreasonable. It is my standard carried food weight for trips up to 8 days. As usual, YMMV.

John Nielsen
(johndn) - MLife

Locale: Matanuska Valley, Alaska
windtech hat on 06/08/2013 02:22:00 MDT Print View

Where do you find the turtle fur windtech hat? I'm not familiar with this one. Can't find it on the net. Oops, just noticed Will's note, no longer available.

Edited by johndn on 06/13/2013 20:49:19 MDT.

Jamie Shortt
(jshortt) - MLife

Locale: North Carolina
Re: Re: Re: Re: food weight for 5 days on 06/08/2013 08:06:16 MDT Print View

Will, Great set of articles, I am truly enjoying this series.

A lot of content, but I will comment quickly on the amount of food/day as this is an area I continue to tweek.

I typically go out for 2 nights at a time so I need food for 2-2.5 days. Here is a picture of what I took this week on a trip to the Smoky's (6/4-6/6).

Jamie Food for 2.5 Days

It weighed 42.5 oz including all packaging and my cuben food hanging sack. I returned with a little bit of jerky, snack mix, and twizzlers that weighed 4.1 oz. This is pretty close to consuming 19 oz/day including packaging. I typically hike for longer periods and when I do I don't feel the need to eat as much, this might work opposite for others and might not be true for longer trips. But for me, this consumption repeats itself each time I hike. I am rarely hungry.

Next time I plan to reduce the jerky and snack mix. I might go to all Jelly Belly's as those things are great.

Jamie

Edited by jshortt on 06/08/2013 08:07:56 MDT.

Buck Nelson
(Colter) - MLife

Locale: Alaska
Great article! on 06/08/2013 08:28:54 MDT Print View

Water treatment and good hygiene practices together will reduce your chances of getting sick as a huge amount of NOLS data has shown. They treat water AND practice good hygiene and have a fraction of stomach upsets vs the general backpacking population. Certain pathogens are passed human to human, and animal to human, and human to animal. For giardia it is all three.

People are right that the amount of food depends a lot on the person. Many can get by 19 oz or so of food a day for shorter trips. Experience will tell you what you need to carry. For thru-hikes and the like I think it's fair to say that most people need about 2 lbs a day to avoid losing excessive amounts of weight.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: food weight for 5 days on 06/08/2013 16:55:21 MDT Print View

"I might go to all Jelly Belly's as those things are great."

You're on the right track there, Jamie. They will provide the carbs necessary to support the metabolism of body fat, which will provide you will ample energy for 2-3 trips, unless you are severely underweight. In most cases folks have enough extra body fat, which provides ~3500 calories/pound, to last them at least a week as a supplement to carried food providing 2500 calories or so, if they provide the carbs necessary to support its metabolism.

Richard Mock
(moxtr) - M

Locale: The piney woods
Wash hands on 06/09/2013 00:48:16 MDT Print View

I wash my hands with small amounts of soap and water and finish with Purell. Dosen't everyone?

Jason Livingston
(jasonlivy)
Re: Mountain SuperUltraLight Backpacking – Going SUL in the Mountains with Adequate Shelter, Insulation, and Rain Protection. Part 3: M-SUL Base Weight Gear Lists on 06/09/2013 15:43:42 MDT Print View

Thanks Will:

Great article!

I enjoy these articles for many reasons. One, I read what is possible for lightening my pack. Two, I really appreciate the time and effort Will has made in accumulating the information based on his experience. He does so humbly and as a benefit to fellow backpackers. I'm sure he would be the first to admit that he doesn't expect anyone to take what he has to say and follow it verbatim. This is just what works for him and am grateful he's spent the time to share it with us. I know Will goes to drastic lengths to back up his claims. Even with the exhaustive research and passion he puts into his articles, some of it boils down to personal preference.

As a Cascade Designs rep in the Rocky Mtns, I am always intrigued by the insights I get from backpackinglight.com. Some I agree with, others I don't, but I always find something that I can learn from.

I do have a few small inexpensive items that I would recommend for Will on his list. One is the newly updated MSR Spoon, Spork, and Fork. They weigh in at 5 grams each and are foldable meaning they can be extended to a long-handled utensil. I used the spoon recently on a 60 mile trip into Escalante National Park and was very pleasantly surprised. One of the guys we were with used it to clean out his plastic peanut butter jar and felt it was robust enough for that purpose (he admittedly has a bit to learn about UL backpacking).

The other is our new MSR Aquatab Tablets (passed EPA for sale in all 50 states just recently). These new tablets are not chlorine dioxide but Troclosene Sodium. The pills themselves are not toxic and therefore the packaging is easy to open. They are incredibly light and inexpensive ($12.95 for 30). This is a good alternative to Aquamira. Check out Aquatabs.com for more info. Cascade Designs is the sole distributor of Aquatabs in the US.

The Platypus 2L bottle is 8g heavier than the Sawyer 2L flask, but built much better and is meant for long-term use.

Thanks again for a great series on M-SUL! Can't wait to read more...

Jim Milstein
(JimSubzero) - M

Locale: New Uraniborg CO
Wide Mouth 1L Bottles on 06/09/2013 20:55:34 MDT Print View

I have a Nalgene Wide Mouth 1L Cantene, onto whose lid I grafted a standard narrow beverage neck. This weighs 63 g and is very robust. It's robust enough that I also use it as a squeeze bottle for the Sawyer Squeeze Filter.

1L WideMouth Nalgene Cantene with Mod