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Mountain SuperUltraLight Backpacking – Going SUL in the Mountains with Adequate Shelter, Insulation, and Rain Protection. Part 3: M-SUL Base Weight Gear Lists
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Maia Jordan
(maia) - MLife

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Mountain SuperUltraLight Backpacking – Going SUL in the Mountains with Adequate Shelter, Insulation, and Rain Protection. Part 3: M-SUL Base Weight Gear Lists on 06/04/2013 20:20:40 MDT Print View

Companion forum thread to:

Mountain SuperUltraLight Backpacking – Going SUL in the Mountains with Adequate Shelter, Insulation, and Rain Protection. Part 3: M-SUL Base Weight Gear Lists

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Mountain SuperUltraLight Backpacking – Going SUL in the Mountains with Adequate Shelter, Insulation, and Rain Protection. Part 3: M-SUL Base Weight Gear Lists on 06/05/2013 03:38:58 MDT Print View

Another great write up.
Thanks!

Joel Benford
(Morte66) - F - M

Locale: Surrey flatlands, England
Cost on 06/05/2013 05:25:57 MDT Print View

Do you happen to know Will, from your gear list software or whatever, what a complete set up would cost?

Tony Ronco
(tr-browsing) - MLife
+ 1 on Cost on 06/05/2013 08:01:27 MDT Print View

+1 on the Cost Curiosity question

Roman Vazhnov
(joarr) - MLife

Locale: Russia
food weight for 5 days on 06/05/2013 08:09:45 MDT Print View

4 breakfasts x 7 oz + 5 lunches x 10 oz + 4 dinners x 7 oz = 106 oz total (3005 grams), not 70.

2 kg (70 oz) of food for five days are clearly not enough.

Edited by joarr on 06/05/2013 08:11:56 MDT.

Chris W
(simplespirit) - MLife

Locale: .
Re: food weight for 5 days on 06/05/2013 08:30:44 MDT Print View

"2 kg (70 oz) of food for five days are clearly not enough."

Depends on the person. Metabolisms vary significantly. Mike C! has thoroughly tested food weights and advocates (last I checked anyway) 1.2 lbs (or 19 oz) per person per day.

5*19 = 95 oz, but that assumes you need 5 full days of meals. Most people don't carry/eat breakfast on the first day and dinner on the last day, so really it's more like 4.5 days of meals for a 5 day trip.

4.5*19 = 86 oz

Mike C! doesn't worry about caloric density either. You can do better on weight by using dense foods.

Will is older, and while quite active, isn't going to need as many calories as say Andrew Skurka. Most backpackers can also spare a few pounds of body fat and don't need to depend on the food they carry for survival, especially on shorter trips.

Edited by simplespirit on 06/05/2013 08:34:22 MDT.

Will Tatman
(roboconcept)
Water Capacity... on 06/05/2013 11:10:08 MDT Print View

Scratching my head at the 'Maximum of 1 liter of water carried'....

Bruce Warren
(Aimee) - F - MLife
Point of diminishing returns... on 06/05/2013 12:11:21 MDT Print View

I love this series because it "takes it to the limit". Hikers have nothing else to do so why not make each camping task more time consuming or less comfortable to save weight. But I suggest that there is no net benefit (joy, mileage, comfort...) to going so low with pack weight.

When I was designing backpacks using the kids in my Boy Scout Troop as guinea pigs, I stumbled upon an interesting metric. The 12 kids varied in weight from 110 lbs to 220lbs. But they all had no problem hiking (mostly flat trails in Texas) with a total load under 30 lbs. Cutting down to 20lb made no difference in their performance/fun/stumbles. (under 20 is impossible with Boy Scouts) But going over 30 lbs made most of the scouts (big and small) very tired very fast and they tipped over a lot. It was not a percentage of body weight... it was 30 lbs.

I believe that if you keep your total added weight under 30lbs your hike will be a success. I speculate that it relates to humans evolving carrying their kids around for safety/speed/etc. When the kid gets to 30lbs he can survive on his own two feet.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Water Capacity... on 06/05/2013 12:25:06 MDT Print View

"Scratching my head at the 'Maximum of 1 liter of water carried'...."

I never carry more than 1/2 liter

Will Rietveld
(WilliWabbit) - MLife

Locale: Southwest Colorado
Re: food weight for 5 days on 06/05/2013 12:41:27 MDT Print View

Looks like I made a math error. Will get it corrected asap.

1.5 pounds of food per day is just right for me when hiking hard. I eat less the first 2 days then eat more the remaining days. Every hiker needs to determine the amount of food needed for his metabolism.

Water is abundant in the mountains where I hike so 1 liter is enough to carry. Every hiker needs to make a judgment call on how much water to carry for his needs and situation. Best, Will

Mobius Vortex
(MobiusVortex)
missing some basics on 06/05/2013 21:11:27 MDT Print View

A few basic items appear to be missing. Soap, Map, Compass, car key...
Including TP DEET and sunscreen in your lists but no soap really caught my eye.
Also a liter of water by definition is 1Kg or 1000g not 998g.

Rex Sanders
(Rex) - M

Locale: Central California Coast
Re: missing some basics on 06/05/2013 21:39:37 MDT Print View

"Also a liter of water by definition is 1Kg or 1000g not 998g."

Depends on temperature. At 20°C, 1 liter is about 998g.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Density_of_water_and_ice
Water Density Graph from Kdkeller@Wikipedia

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: missing some basics on 06/05/2013 22:01:17 MDT Print View

Soap? I haven't taken soap on a trip in years.

It is certainly okay to smell a bit and don't forget THIS IS A SUL ARTICLE!!!!

Mobius Vortex
(MobiusVortex)
Re: missing some basics on 06/05/2013 22:13:05 MDT Print View

Davey,

The soap has nothing to do with smelling nice it has to do with wiping your ass then stuffing the same hand into your food bag. There are many articles (some on this site) that show most intestinal distress in the back country is from bad hygiene practices not bad water.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: missing some basics on 06/05/2013 22:20:17 MDT Print View

Use a leaf. And spork.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
For shame... on 06/05/2013 22:25:54 MDT Print View

Bloody hell Ryan Jordan!!! This is what you're willing to publish?

2 grams off on a liter of water??!! And I thought you were a PHD or dentist or life coach or something.

No soap or car key listed??!! Keep your hands outta my M&Ms and back off. And not listing your car key on the spreadsheet is dishonest. This ain't Wall Street Ryan Jordan; go back to Bear Stearns with Will and your phony accountants. Think of the example you're setting for your Scouts and Countrymen.

No map or compass??!! You're not just putting your own life at risk. Think of all those that could die looking for you. Flagrant disregard for others. Will, I'm putting you in touch with Dale immediately for some 10 Essentials training.

An otherwise solid article is ruined now. Completely ruined.
Children could be reading this.

For shame, Ryan Jordan, for shame. Will, I trusted you.

Edited by xnomanx on 06/05/2013 22:36:54 MDT.

Mobius Vortex
(MobiusVortex)
Re: For shame... on 06/05/2013 22:45:37 MDT Print View

Craig,

I should have know better that post a comment on a site populated by fanatics. The weights in Will's most excellent article are listed down to thousandths of an ounce or tenth of a gram. To strive for such accuracy and leave out essential items seems like an over-site to me. And yes, I DO consider soap, map, compass and car key essential. After all I would like to be able to return home at the end of my trip.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: For shame... on 06/05/2013 23:24:52 MDT Print View

I often don't bring a map or compass in areas I am very familiar with. Many people leave their keys under a rock or stashed on the car frame. My present vehicle was purchased specifically to include a keyless entry system so I can hide the key inside where it would be difficult for a thief to find. You don't need soap for a weekend trip. Do you think the soldiers that go through survival training are issued soap?

The concept of light, UL, SUL, etc. is to maximize the one critical piece of equipment -- the brain.

Relax -- it's just walking.

Tad Englund
(bestbuilder) - F - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: For shame... on 06/06/2013 00:32:39 MDT Print View

Craig, you forgot:


Human Sacrifice, Dogs and Cats living together... Mass Hysteria


I agree that it seem some on this forum have an 10 essentials kit the probably weighs more than Wills list.

And Nick I agree with the key thing- I lock mine in the car and have a spare attached to the frame. I do take soap for my #2 clean up, I don't use TP and kind of have an issue with cleanup. I guess water and some pine needles or the like would work. But for less than a ounce- I'll take the soap.

Compass and map- there are some areas of the cascades that I don't need a compass/map. I have been on many trips where either never came out. But I always take it if there is even the slightest chance I'll have a issue (which means 90% of the time- I like to change things up)

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Re: missing some basics on 06/06/2013 06:54:16 MDT Print View

"The soap has nothing to do with smelling nice it has to do with wiping your ass then stuffing the same hand into your food bag."

On solo trips, you can generally do away with soap. If you are not infected with anything, there is no reason to anticipate being infected with something through feces or urine. Sound's kind'a gross, but, this is a scientific fact. If you have ever had new-born puppys around, you know that it is common for them to eat their own feces. They do not die from this behavior. Nor does a mother get sick from cleaning up after the young ones. Even if a person were to have something already, there is only a few that can reinfect the same person...and it doesn't matter because that person is already infected with whatever disease/parasite (though some tapeworms, and other types can double infect...I am assuming a healthy person to start.)

It is Human to Human that transmits diseases. You cannot get a new disease from anything your own body produces. It is the other guy you have to watch out for.