MYOG water filter - questions
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Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
MYOG water filter - questions on 06/01/2013 16:40:41 MDT Print View

Would like to attach a small pump to a Sawyer PointONE inline unit, so have been looking for a small plastic pail pump. So far no luck, as everything is either too big and heavy, or is the fragile and unreliable kind of thing you see on hand lotion containers.

The ideal unit would be under an inch in diameter and around 6 inches long. The hose size is not critical, as adaptors can be fashioned from different size tubing. Would keep the prefilter on my Sweetwater Walk-About, as it has been the most effective and trouble-free prefilter I've used - easily recognizable by the fan-shaped design on the outside (sort of like a peace sign).

The Sawyer unit weighs under 2 oz, so a very light and fast pump filter is feasible if I can find the small plastic pump. Not sure if the filter would go between the pump and the source, or between the pump and the container. The former would be best to keep the pump from being contaminated, but would have to experiment. Could do up a stuff bag with two compartments, one for the contaminated parts, the other for the clean ones.

Any suggestions or sourcing would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Colin Krusor
(ckrusor) - M

Locale: Northwest US
pump on 06/01/2013 19:10:24 MDT Print View

I've been thinking about something very similar recently. I concluded that the lightest and most reliable pump with adequate throughput would be a bulb. The only problem is that bulbs can't pull against much hydrostatic head. So, you can easily make or obtain a bulb that is lightweight, simple (reliable), and will push plenty of water at adequate pressure, but it will have trouble refilling itself (it will tend to stay collapsed) if it is much higher than the surface of the water source.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
pump on 06/01/2013 22:08:02 MDT Print View

Hi Colin,
There should be a light plastic pump out there somewhere. Will bring this forward if and when one is found.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: MYOG water filter - questions on 06/02/2013 01:00:23 MDT Print View

> The ideal unit would be under an inch in diameter and around 6 inches long.
Dead easy. You want a disposable plastic hypodermic in the largest size available.
http://www.terumotmp.com/productdetails.aspx?categoryId=1&productId=208
http://www.medical-and-lab-supplies.com/syringes-needles/syringes-only/60-ml-syringes.html
That would be the 60 cc unit in most cases.

Dunno - there may be larger ones from other suppliers.

Cheers

Colin Krusor
(ckrusor) - M

Locale: Northwest US
syringe on 06/02/2013 09:45:54 MDT Print View

Yes, a 60ml syringe attached to a short (1cm) bit of tubing, then a tee with little check valves on each side would make for a perfectly functional water pump.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
more questions on 06/03/2013 22:04:37 MDT Print View

You guys make it sound so easy.
But I don't see it.
The hypos are fine for drawing in water, and then shooting it out.
They make kid's water pistols like that.
But I need something with an input tube and an output tube that moves water through it when you pump. Not to mention long term durability, not something intended for just one (hopefully) use.

Called McMaster-Carr and went through most of the pail pumps with customer service.
The lightest was .8 pounds, way too heavy. Hope the CS person wasn't referring to shipping weights.

With Colin's knowledge of check valves and such, maybe I could somehow manufacture something. After spending two years on manufacturing a pack, and needing to do some serious mods to lighten a tent for later this summer, I'm just not in the manufacturing mood. (Oh that's right, winter's coming where you are, Roger). Was hoping something might be found that could just be put in line with the Sawyer filter. Maybe a flash of inspiration will come. A lot of products have little pumps, but they don't last long, and many contain stuff like bug dope you don't want getting near your drinking water. Or maybe I'll grit my teeth and master the annoying eccentricities of the MSR Hyperflow as some have done (Gasp, the price is now up to $100!).

We'll see. Rome wasn't built etc.

Nathan Hays
(oroambulant)

Locale: San Francisco
Pump? on 06/04/2013 01:04:27 MDT Print View

I hook my inline to my zip-top 2L Nathan bladder. Dirty water in the bladder, clean out the other end. Just roll and squeeze the bladder and clean water comes gushing through.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: more questions on 06/04/2013 04:29:03 MDT Print View

Hi Sam

> You guys make it sound so easy.
It is. What you need are Luer lock fittings, as a check valve. See just for example:
http://www.valueplastics.com/products/checkValveMain.aspx
http://www.valueplastics.com/search/fulllinedoublecheckvalves.aspx

These are very nioce integrated T fittings. But you can also get a standard T fitting plus a couple of in-line check valves, and some silicone hose. Google ...

Cheers

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
myog water filter on 06/04/2013 18:09:31 MDT Print View

Hi Roger,
Well, they only sell in a minimum quantity of 100.
And there is still the question of the durability of syringes in rough and heavy outdoor use.

Originally, the intention was to order a simple little plastic pump; but all that I've found that are durable and good capacity are way too heavy, as earlier noted.

I was complaining about the price of the Hyperflow, but the Sawyer in line filter is $60 alone. Think I'll wait to see if EMS has a sale this month that includes the Hyperflows, and then put in some quality time to learning how to handle its glitches so that I'll be ready when they happen in the field, as I know they will. Otherwise there is still the pump filter I have, the Sweetwater Walkabout, that has never failed or even had a glitch in all kinds of awful conditions. A few ounces heavier than the Hyperflow, and pumps much slower, but never a problem.

Water is just too critical an item to experiment with in the field. The Primary reason I've had so many myog project failures lately is quality of materials. So I'm ultrasensitive to that, and will keep looking for a good minipump, and jump on it if it turns up.

But I greatly appreciate your efforts to assist. Thanks.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
mini water pump on 06/04/2013 20:59:12 MDT Print View

Roger,
Knowing from your suggestions that Ebay is a good place to look for odd stuff,
went and after several searches found this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Syphon-Manual-Hand-Pump-kit-SIPHON-water-Liquid-Fuel-Fish-Tank-Extractor-/290901354482?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item43bb1267f2

They seldom list the weights, but almost all these small pumps are at least 8 ounce displacement, which makes them on the big and heavy side. This one looked a little shorter in the photos at the bottom of the page, so decided to risk it, given the not so high price, even though it has to come from the UK to the US.

Well, it could be worse. I could be a facebook junkie.
Cheers.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: myog water filter on 06/05/2013 02:49:32 MDT Print View

Sam, Sam ...

> Well, they only sell in a minimum quantity of 100.
Ask the rep for sample!

Cheers

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
check valve on 06/05/2013 20:54:30 MDT Print View

You know, I tried that, Roger.
And you know what the guy said?
He said, don't take me for a fool, this is Mr. Caffin calling again, right?

On a more serious note, maybe someone can comment on ways to keep the Hyperflow from getting air blocks in the pump. OK, so it's not MYOG, but would be helpful to know.

Don't take that the wrong way - haven't given up on the pump hunt yet.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
small pumps on 06/05/2013 21:02:30 MDT Print View

did you look at fuel pumps for r/c models? You can even have battery operated

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
myog filter on 06/06/2013 21:29:42 MDT Print View

Most nifty idea, M B. Must check them out right away.
Would need an unused one for drinking water, of course.

steven franchuk
(Surf) - M
Re: check valve on 06/08/2013 12:28:56 MDT Print View

Next time you go to a hospital or your doctor's office ask for a syringe. If its not contaminated with drug or body fluids or don't have a neadle they might give you one for free. Most stuff in a hospital is used once and then discarded.

Try looking at Amazon.com. A lot of syringe options at low costs:

http://www.amazon.com/Dynarex-Piston-Irrigation-Syringe-60/product-reviews/B001B5NE38/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_one?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0

The other option is to try a place like mcmaster.com (the hardware equivelent of amazon.com).

http://www.mcmaster.com/#diaphragm-check-valves/=n3tnh2

http://www.mcmaster.com/#syringes/=n3tvpe

Through sites like these you can probably setup something for about $15 dollars maybe less. There are a lot of companies out there and many will sell such items in low quantities. Just go to Google.com and do searches with the words check valves syringes and you will get a lot of hits.


You also might want to look for syringes and check valves with Luer Lock fittings. Then you could simply screw the two together. As to the reliability of syringes they don't cost a lot and you could easily replace after one or two trips. In my experience they tend to last longer than you would expect especially if you periodically lubricate the syringe

Edited by Surf on 06/08/2013 12:32:17 MDT.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
myog pump filter on 06/08/2013 21:03:41 MDT Print View

Steven,
Thanks for your suggestions. Some of them were made in earlier posts on this thread, and I responded. I sort of got wrapped up in this, so spent a lot of time browsing, and called McMaster-Carr for details, among others. Googled in many categories, like aquarium pumps for example. Everything was much too heavy.

The lightest pumps out there seem to be air pumps for bikes; but I don't know how to, or even if you can, convert an air to a water pump. Also, am not savvy enough to find syringes and check valves that are durable for long term use, and figure out how to make them work for this application.

Don't have time to tinker with this now, but maybe next winter. In the meantime, will talk to folks in healthcare professions to get an idea of what might be out there. The lighter Radio Control fuel pumps are crank types, the gears tend to strip, and are not what I'm looking for.

You would think a durable small piston liquid pump would not be so elusive, but it seems so. It may be because those wishing to move water and other liquids by hand find a larger pump more suitable. I've no doubt that with a 2 oz Sawyer filter, a pump filter with a total weight around 5-6 ounces is totally feasible, so will keep looking.

Will post, of course, if successful. It took me two years to find out that kite fittings were totally worthless, and another year to figure out how to modify plumbing fittings from McMaster-Carr and other places to make pack frames; so I've learned to be patient with this sort of thing. But it often takes time.

Edited by scfhome on 06/08/2013 21:06:44 MDT.

Paul McLaughlin
(paul) - MLife
Re: MYOG water filter - questions on 06/14/2013 22:34:05 MDT Print View

have you considered a pump from an MSR stove? Don't know if it could be used to pump water, but it is readily available and pretty light. worth an experiment perhaps.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
MYOG water filter - questions on 06/15/2013 20:34:22 MDT Print View

Thanks for the suggestion, Paul.
Hadn't thought about stove pumps - just assumed they would be metal and heavy.
But will take a look at some of the MSR stoves.

Right now I'm looking at small plastic pumps used to move fluids around in gasoline engines. Some are rugged, light and look promising.

Wish fewer of the short term projects were turning out to be long term ones, though.

Edited by scfhome on 06/15/2013 20:35:11 MDT.

Samuel C. Farrington
(scfhome) - M

Locale: Chocorua NH, USA
Pump on 06/17/2013 22:31:23 MDT Print View

This is the pump I'm looking at now:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002M589TA/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=1535523722&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B001DKQZ9Q&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1AZP5NZY535B8256YA8A

It weighs about 4 oz with all the tubing that comes with it, and pumps a quart of water quickly with about 20 strokes.

Will post again when tried with the Sawyer PointOne.

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
More questions, more answers on 06/17/2013 23:25:24 MDT Print View

Get thee to a aquarium supply store. There you will find small-diameter tubing, tee-fittings and small, lightweight check-valves. I can often find what I need in the pet supply aisle of a Walmart. That, and a 250- or 500-cc cardiac syringe and you'll be moving some fluids. Note that the smallest diameter of any tubing or fitting in your scheme will be the limiting factor in flow rate.

Or just take the mustard/ketchup pump out of a gallon-jug of condiment. They are easily found next to any hot dog stand.

Edited to add a legal source of the ketchup pump: http://www.amazon.com/Heinz-Easy-Pump/dp/B001AB4G7G/ref=lp_2593411011_1_2?srs=2593411011&ie=UTF8&qid=1371533275&sr=8-2

$7. "An. . . tici. . . .pa. . . . a . . . . tion. . . . . . is making me wait."

Edited by DavidinKenai on 06/17/2013 23:28:57 MDT.