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Ultralight and the 10 Essentials
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Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: To Craig and Nick on 06/05/2013 22:51:51 MDT Print View

Craig, love the new hair style. Kind of a post modern Elvis Presley approach.

But about the recent weight gain...

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
To Craig and Nick on 06/05/2013 22:54:17 MDT Print View

Oh yes, some idiot goes out unprepared and now we all need to wear hunter orange and be prepared to help them.

Lots of people get lots in the streets. Many more than get lost in the woods. Should we be prepared to suspend our lives to help them all ?

--G.B.--

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Re: To Craig and Nick on 06/05/2013 23:00:50 MDT Print View

"Craig, love the new hair style. Kind of a post modern Elvis Presley approach.

But about the recent weight gain..."


________________________


Yeah, thanks, but apparently Daniel thinks it's not helping my "trail aura".
I'm afraid my posture, eye contact, smile, and confidence might not be radiating that I'm here to help, that I care.

Is it the double chin or the hair?

I'm firing my stylist tomorrow.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
To Daniel on 06/05/2013 23:12:34 MDT Print View

I wasn't passing judgement on anyone.

Probably not a good idea to assume what others can or cannot; or are willing or not willing to do. I'll just say that I have probably been walking a lot longer and more than most people. So I have had to help a few folks, some in serious circumstances. I'll let Craig speak for himself, should he care to. I have hiked quite a bit with him and he was once an EMT, so he is the one person I would be thrilled to see in an emergency. I just don't think it is my responsibility to check every person I see on a trail to ensure they are prepared and competent. I believe in personal responsibility. Of course, on most my hikes I see few people and most of them know what the hell they are doing.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 06/05/2013 23:16:39 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/08/2013 18:31:21 MDT.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 06/05/2013 23:18:12 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/08/2013 18:49:08 MDT.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 06/05/2013 23:24:14 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/08/2013 18:47:59 MDT.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: To Ian on 06/05/2013 23:38:05 MDT Print View

I was just making an observation that there are cultural differences within the U.S. and even within the PNW itself. Where I live, striking up a conversation with a perfect stranger is normal. DC, not so much.

I often travel solo and I've learned to meter my interactions with strangers based on my location. Not saying this is true across the board but trying to talk to strangers in DC the same way I do in the PNW would make people very uncomfortable. I may be a lot of things(including but not limited to being a gold medalist smart @$$) but I don't try to make people uncomfortable and I try not to be mean spirited.

If I were to sense that someone is turned around or in distress on the trail (or wherever) then I would obviously be happy to help them regardless of the location or circumstance.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 06/06/2013 00:10:38 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/08/2013 18:37:57 MDT.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: I'm advocating for gear choices... on 06/06/2013 01:23:51 MDT Print View

"Maybe Nick will share how he *felt* after helping those folks he's referred to."

Daniel,

When we find someone in dire straights, then most of us help. That is human nature. We see it nightly on the news -- people rushing to rescue others in natural disasters or human caused tragedies. Giving someone some water, food, directions, or other minor assistance isn't a positive or negative feeling for me. Assisting someone who is ill prepared ticks me off. My trip is shortened, changed or basically cancelled. But we do what we need to do.

The last time this happened was about 2 years ago. It was winter and a friend and I where going to summit Mt. San Jacinto. It started to snow pretty good about 2 miles from the peak and visibility was poor. We were prepared for anything the weather gods might throw at us. Then we ran into a young couple who were wearing jeans and cotton sweat shirts. We stopped because they looked like they needed help. There was no one else hiking because of the weather. They asked if we were going to the peak and could they come with us. It was obvious they were wet and cold. I told them they needed to turn around immediately and go back to the ranger station or the tram. They said the couldn't because they get lost easily and the falling snow had covered all the footprints. By now it was really snowing. So we told them we would take them back. After talking to them it looked like they were close to hypothermia. We gave them most of our warm clothes and kept them moving. We made them eat some of our food while hiking. It was slow going. My friend and I were now under dressed and began to get cold ourselves. Snow turned into rain and we were getting soaked because they were wearing our rain shells. Long story, short... All ended well and we got them to the warm tram building. Did I feel good about this? No, I was pissed. We ended up cutting our trip short. They put us in jeapordy. We did what we did because we are human.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Who's judgmental? on 06/06/2013 06:19:44 MDT Print View

"Scary for those of you who think you are superior to me."

" If you're not a people person. Or worse,"


WTF!?!

Get off your soapbox.

I agree with Gob, of course.

Edited by kthompson on 06/06/2013 06:26:35 MDT.

Buck Nelson
(Colter) - MLife

Locale: Alaska
Knowledge and good judgment are the first two essentials on 06/06/2013 07:17:38 MDT Print View

Some of the essentials are not always essential. Around here it's not going to get dark for the next few weeks, so I wouldn't carry lighting.

But I think it's a good concept and serves as a sensible starting point. An example of a "ten essential" item that often gets left at home, in situations where it shouldn't, is a compass. The best navigators can get completely confused even in familiar country, in snowstorms for example. Pretty nice to be able to follow a compass bearing to a recognizable place!

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 06/06/2013 07:21:46 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/08/2013 18:36:09 MDT.

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
Ultralight and the 10 Essentials on 06/06/2013 07:29:07 MDT Print View

Lay off the drugs. Get help.

Try writing a coherent post to express your view. Use the words to make your point, not meaningless emotional phrases. Don't abuse the language.

Thanks, hope this helps

--God.Bless.--

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Thanks Nick, and I don't believe you Ken on 06/06/2013 07:35:02 MDT Print View

Would you guys try to stay on the subject and leave the personal attacks in chaff? This really annoying. If you can't behave, I'm going to take my ball and go home.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Ultralight and the 10 Essentials on 06/06/2013 09:02:57 MDT Print View

"Attitude, cultural norms, etc... irrelevant to my idea to carry extra maps, carry extra compasses, carry extra whistles."

I misunderstood your intentions. Your earlier comments gave me the impression that you were going to randomly question hikers about their preparedness on the trail. My subtle point was that would not be well received by some people. I now understand that you want to carry extra maps/compasses for hikers in distress. Wonderful.

Dale,

I'm glad that you champion the 10 essentials and being prepared for the unexpected. This is something we discuss much at work. One of the most dangerous points in a law enforcement officer's career is the 7-10 year mark. When you're new, you do everything by the book. After you've gained some proficiency at your craft, many will start cutting corners (not wearing armor for knock-and-talks, etc).

Backpacking is the same thing imo. Many of us start off with these ridiculous backpacks and are prepared for arctic storms in Death Valley and chainsaw wielding bears. We then learn through the UL Kool Aid to leave the unnecessary garbage at home and then some look at their compass and realize that they haven't used it in the past couple years. Then you find yourself in whiteout conditions trying to figure out which way is up.

HYOH all but it's certainly food for thought.

v/r

Ian

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
What I learned from this thread on 06/06/2013 09:06:35 MDT Print View

Introverts lead joyless* lives.





*According to the official, single, universal definition of joy, which is, "Being a people person."

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: What I learned from this thread on 06/06/2013 09:40:11 MDT Print View

"Introverts lead joyless* lives."

A while back there was a thread about what BPL members did for a living. As expected, the majority had task oriented jobs such as programmers, accountants, engineers, etc. Task oriented people tend to be introverts, but this is not universally true of course. This isn't a bad thing. Most gear lists I see include the "essentials." So this is a "preaching to the choir" type of thread. It is good to revisit the subject as many of us can get complacent over time, as has been pointed out.

I don't buy the "joy of helping others" as a backpacking goal or personal attribute. I am out there to HMOH, not to help others, teach others, introduce others to backpacking, spread the UL gospel, or enhance the common good of all who enter the wilderness. It is my responsibility to carry all necessary essentials to ensure I am safe. What others choose to do, or not do is none of my business. I will assist others who are in danger or hurt. If I meet someone on the trail I am not going to engage them to measure their level of preparedness. I am not going to talk to them unless they start a conversation, which I will cut short unless they need help. I go to the wilderness to enjoy solitude, not socialize with others. If I wanted to talk to a bunch of people I would go to Walmart. There are probably a lot of Walmart shoppers who need help too, so for those who want to help others, head on over there :)

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: What I learned from this thread on 06/06/2013 09:54:48 MDT Print View

"....Most gear lists I see include the "essentials." So this is a "preaching to the choir" type of thread. It is good to revisit the subject as many of us can get complacent over time, as has been pointed out."

Au contraire! My point in starting this thread is that there are so many threads and even BPL articles that advocate using windshirts in lieu of rain gear, leaving out navigation gear and shelter, ineffective cutting tools and lighting, first aid kits stripped to uselessness, and so on. And there are thousands who read these forums without posting gear lists, so that is no measure of the knowledge and skills of the readership, aka "the choir."

spelt with a t
(spelt) - F

Locale: SW/C PA
Re: Re: Re: What I learned from this thread on 06/06/2013 10:06:51 MDT Print View

And there are thousands who read these forums without posting gear lists

And, as is often pointed out, the gear lists that are posted are often not comprehensive. I've never posted one, but I have compared my spreadsheet to those who have, and noticed a lot of stuff that was either extra on my part or missing on their part.