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Nico .
(NickB) - MLife

Locale: Los Padres National Forest
UL and the 10 Essentials on 05/30/2013 10:04:42 MDT Print View

I guess I follow both ends of the spectrum...

Sometimes I like to hike or trail run like Craig W. Just head out the door and onto the trail with the clothes on my back and maybe a water bottle and/or headlamp (if heading out late). For my local front country trails up to about 10 or 12 miles, I feel adequately prepared for what I might encounter with just this. Loading up a pack to carry extra food, insulation, first aid, etc. seems like an unnecessary burden- both psychologically and physically, for these types of hikes/runs.

Other times, when I'm on a more dedicated day hike and plan to be heading off trail, into the backcountry, or taking on something ambitious, I will throw together a small pack with all (or most) of the 10 essentials.

Obviously, it depends a lot on the particulars of the trip. Location, season, weather, etc. all factor into the decision-making process about what should come along for in case something goes wrong. A day hike in the PNW might require a more robust basic 10 essentials kit than a day hike in the late spring in southern CA where I wouldn't have to worry much about rain, cold or bugs.

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: What would John Muir take? on 05/30/2013 10:32:23 MDT Print View

"What would John Muir take? "

I've always been fascinated by what he did actually use. Apparently his whole kit in the Sierra in summer included only and overcoat, bread tied in a sack to his belt, tea, presumably some kind of pot to make it in, and matches for making fires. I assume there would be a few other things he never mentioned. Still, impressive.

Edited by millonas on 05/30/2013 10:36:00 MDT.

Dustin Short
(upalachango) - MLife
Re: Re: What would John Muir take? on 05/30/2013 13:02:05 MDT Print View

Out here in Phoenix I "love" when people show up to a 5 mile 1/2 day hike with half a small bottle of water (less than 16oz frequently). This is frequent from the start of march to the end of October when days are almost always 80F-110F in the shade, before the harsh desert sun. If it weren't technically illegal in this state to refuse a person a glass of water, I would let natural selection take its course. Instead my 10 essentials list has become more geared towards providing aid for others rather than my own survival.

I don't believe I've ever had to open my FAK to patch myself up but routinely have to bandage burns and scratches of people I come across (ironically probably more so in the city and while car camping than in the backcountry).

As for the running bit, sure it can be done without an essentials kit but it's not really recommended. All it takes is a bug unexpectedly flying into your face while running down loose scree to make you lose focus. One misplaced step and you've got a bum ankle miles from help with a cold storm moving in. While running life is "great" (if you like running) and you need very little since you're generating so much heat. In the unfortunate event though that some injury or other event prevents your forward momentum and you're screwed. That linked article is proof, the runner had to seek shelter in a car (not very UL) to wait out the mountain lion and couldn't finish his run.

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: west coast best coast
Re: What would John Muir take? on 05/30/2013 13:40:34 MDT Print View

I've camped with the same kind of gear that John Muir would carry but I think you would be insane to take that kit into the high sierras.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Did John Muir run? on 05/30/2013 14:33:19 MDT Print View

Dustin added, "As for the running bit, sure it can be done without an essentials kit but it's not really recommended. All it takes is a bug unexpectedly flying into your face while running down loose scree to make you lose focus. One misplaced step and you've got a bum ankle miles from help with a cold storm moving in. "

Exactly my point. It's not some sort of survivalist paranoia, but more conceding that poop happens and it doesn't take much to improve your chances for surviving a simple mess like a fall. Again, it seems that all the stories involve one small indecent compounded by a string of others: he fell, and then this happened and then he did this and then that happened and it took SAR two days to find him, near death.

My first thought for a runner was something like an 8 liter hydration/day pack with a good bounce-free suspension. Even a small lumbar pack could hold enough to keep you alive.

I wonder how many runners tell someone where they are going?


"A day hike in the PNW might require a more robust basic 10 essentials kit than a day hike in the late spring in southern CA where I wouldn't have to worry much about rain, cold or bugs."

The weather today at roughly 3000' in the Central Cascades (Snoqualmie Pass) at 1:48 PM is 43F with 60% chance of precipitation and an overnight low of 38F (overcast, of course) and 89% humidity. Directly above the pass at 5400' the temp is 35F. The trails still have lots of snow and getting off track could leave you with some nasty post-holing. The open trails are more like small streams and things are muddy and slippery. Bugs will be more of a problem in a few weeks.

We lost a couple hikers last year from sliding off snow-packed trails and down cliffs. Just a partial fall would leave you in bad shape and certain to get wet and cold. Bad place to spend a night without a little gear.

Keep in mind that the trails are commonly on the vertical side in the PNW. From sea level in downtown Seattle, you are looking at 7000'+ peaks in the Olympics, not to mention a 14,410' volcano in the back yard (54 miles), with a couple more 10,000'+ volcanoes for good measure (Baker and Glacier). Mount Rainier has more prominence than K2! You go from the suburbs a half hour drive from the city center straight into designated wilderness areas. I think that closeness fools people, like they are going for a walk in an underdeveloped park. It is just 50 miles up I-90 to the Pacific Crest Trail at Snoqualmie Pass where I mentioned the weather conditions above. I can literally go from the Space Needle and be walking the PCT in an hour.

So this is my playground: beautiful and full of hiking opportunities, but it is steep, wet, cold, dark, and heavily forested. It is wonderful to experience, but not very forgiving if you screw up.

Edited by dwambaugh on 05/30/2013 15:06:04 MDT.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 05/30/2013 15:23:56 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/08/2013 18:30:49 MDT.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Ultralight and the 10 Essentials on 05/30/2013 20:54:19 MDT Print View

A dayhiking list based on the ten essential groups.
http://texas.sierraclub.org/dallas/page.asp?10essentialgroups

Medical- ID/medical tag, first aid kit, medications
Shelter- rain gear, heat sheet
Fire- fire starter/tinder
Hydration- water container, purification method
Communication- safety plan, whistle, cell phone
Navigation- map, compass, flashlight
Nutrition- food
Insulation- jacket, hat, foam pad
Sun Protection- sunscreen, sunglasses, coverage clothing
Tools- knife, wrist watch

In case of emergency, take enough so you can stay healthy (medical), dry (shelter), warm (fire), and hydrated (hydration) until rescued (communication).

Edited by jshann on 05/30/2013 21:02:30 MDT.

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: Re: Ultralight and the 10 Essentials on 05/30/2013 21:13:52 MDT Print View

John,

Except for the cell phone that looks like my normal 5 day kit ;)

Marko Botsaris
(millonas) - F - MLife

Locale: Santa Cruz Mountains, CA
Re: Re: What would John Muir take? on 05/30/2013 22:18:53 MDT Print View

"I've camped with the same kind of gear that John Muir would carry but I think you would be insane to take that kit into the high sierras."

He was a bit of a loon alright. Most of the dangerous stuff he seemed to get into was related to physical risks. There was the famous incident where he decided to get *behind* the falls at the top of Yosemite falls, where even *he* suddenly realized, with just his heels hanging over a tiny wet ledge with nothing but Yosemite valley yawning below that, the yes, he must be a loon. It seems his competence kept him alive.

He was probably someone the average person would get seriously hurt trying to keep up with. There is a hilarious story - not written by Muir, but by the "victim" - of a guy that decided to tag along (more or less unwanted) with Muir as he hiked into the mountains in Alaska for a day. At one point Muir tried to give him a hand up somewhere and his shoulder got dislocated. Then somewhere along the way as Muir tried to get him back to safety the guy's other shoulder got dislocated. So Muir had to cut steps in the snow and gradually move this guy with unusable arms down the mountain. When they got back to the ship Muir was still game and succeeded in very painfully (and probably not very correctly) re-seat both his shoulders. LOL

Edited by millonas on 05/30/2013 22:45:08 MDT.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F - M
more stranded hikers in the same spot on 06/03/2013 11:13:29 MDT Print View

again more stranded hikers from the same trail as from 2 weeks ago ... they couldnt fine their way ... again this is not any alpine or whatever trail ... its a very popular day hike trail within 1-2 km of a popular beach, a hydro station, and close to houses ... just bring up some gear and know how to use it

;)

http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Hikers+stranded+steep+terrain+Coquitlam+Eagle+Ridge/8468730/story.html

METRO VANCOUVER -- Coquitlam search and rescue members rescued a group of six stranded hikers from very steep terrain of Eagle Ridge Sunday night.
The hikers were stranded about 45 minutes from the trailhead of the Swan Falls trail and all were able to walk to safety just before 10 p.m. once shown the way by rescuers, according to Coquitlam SAR spokesman Michael Coyle.
"I speculate that they either got turned around (or) lost the trail, possibly because of snow at the top of the ridge," Coyle said in an email around 8 p.m. - about two and a half hours after their distress call first went out. "They probably found the trail after they called for help but by then the batteries on the phone were drained."
The terrain is so steep that parts of the trail have ropes for balance.
The ages of the stranded hikers are unknown Coyle said.


the previous rescue ...

http://www.coquitlam-sar.bc.ca/2013/05/rescue-on-eagle-ridge/

n Sunday May 19th, Coquitlam SAR members had just returned from assisting Ridge Meadows SAR in the search for a missing man in Maple Ridge, when we were paged by Coquitlam RCMP at 19:00. Three 23 year old male hikers reported themselves lost. They had been hiking on the Dilly Dally trail out of Buntzen Lake, and had somehow missed the trail due to snow at the top of Eagle Ridge.


The subjects indicated that although they had all done this hike before, they had lost the trail in the snow, and had attempted to navigate to where they believed the trail to be. This turned out to be the wrong route, which left them stranded where they were found. They did not have a GPS, and carried minimal equipment with them.

Several weeks of warm weather has melted much of the snowpack, but hikers should be aware that snow lingers on Eagle Ridge well into June, and can obscure trails and trail markers, make for very slow travel, and presents a risk of slip-and-fall injuries. We would also like to remind people that navigation items such as a wilderness GPS, a map and a compas, along with knowing how to use them, can make finding your way much easier. Remember to always take enough clothing and food to handle an emergency, and to call for help early when you know you are lost.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: more stranded hikers in the same spot on 06/03/2013 11:30:07 MDT Print View

Sounds like the local SAR should park a trailer there.

Like my comment about the wilderness trails close to Seattle, I think it fools people into a false sense of security.

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 06/05/2013 17:37:47 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/08/2013 18:32:01 MDT.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Re: caltopo button compass whistle neckalces on 06/05/2013 18:09:51 MDT Print View

I pass out copies of the BLM issued maps of the King Range(Lost Coast) here. Too many without any map at all. Or almost as bad, the Wilderness Press map. Extra tide charts too. The button compass is a nice touch. Not really needed right on the coast as the ocean is hard to miss.

People are always appreciative.

Edit : For clarification. I do not pack in extra copies as a rule. I just give mine to the unprepared dufus. Never happy about it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A6Bu96ALOw Magic at :30

Edited by kthompson on 06/06/2013 18:46:24 MDT.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: caltopo button compass whistle neckalces on 06/05/2013 19:28:59 MDT Print View

You never know...

So the story goes, a lady from LA was in Lahina and asked a tour boat deckhand, "what ocean is that out there. The deckhand regained his composure and replied, "that is the Pacific Ocean, Ma'am." And she said, "oh, that's nice, we have one of those home in California too!"

You can give them a map, but can they read it? Maybe a whistle and the name of their next of kin?

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: caltopo button compass whistle neckalces on 06/05/2013 20:25:10 MDT Print View

When hiking I mind my own business and keep my conversations with strangers to a simple, "Hi."

If someone asks for help, I assist them as best I can.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: caltopo button compass whistle neckalces on 06/05/2013 22:08:22 MDT Print View

"When hiking I mind my own business and keep my conversations with strangers to a simple, "Hi."

If someone asks for help, I assist them as best I can."



+1 Nick.

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
re: UL & 10 Essentials on 06/05/2013 22:26:44 MDT Print View

Nick sez: "Except for the cell phone that looks like my normal 5 day kit ;)"

Good point! Actually, a well prepared for anything day pack is pretty much a UL backpack! I put together a daypack with "what I want if I get stuck overnight" gear, and when I got done, about the only difference between that and my regular pack was a real sleeping bag and tarp, and food!


p.s. for Nick - the demo pack gets mailed tomorrow!!!

Daniel Fish
(daniel@fishfamilypdx.com)

Locale: PDX
... on 06/05/2013 22:37:25 MDT Print View

...

Edited by daniel@fishfamilypdx.com on 06/08/2013 18:32:33 MDT.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: To Craig and Nick on 06/05/2013 22:45:38 MDT Print View

Oh boy...

1

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: caltopo button compass whistle neckalces on 06/05/2013 22:50:30 MDT Print View

It might be a PNW thing. When we were hiking N. Cascades last week, we encountered several hikers and almost without exception "Beautiful day!" "Where you hiking to/from?" "Where are you from?" etc etc.

When I was in DC, everyone is in a bubble and as a rule, you don't strike up conversations with strangers unless you want to get pepper sprayed.