Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD)
Display Avatars Sort By:
Kevin Schneringer
(Slammer) - MLife

Locale: Oklahoma Flat Lands
Since it is Chaff... on 06/01/2013 14:30:02 MDT Print View

Well I just got a piece of gear in from an... uh anonymous cottage gear shop.
I took it out pitched it in the yard inspected every tiny stitch.
Well it is perfect no issues.

Maybe we could start a Chaff Thread bragging on the fabulous gear we get form these specialized gear makers.Anyone can go negative but how many of us thank these guys for answering endless emails as we scrutinize every detail. Or ask for random add-ons and custom changes.

Like Zpacks- Joe and Matt answer questions all hours. Turn custom work around quickly and smile while doing it.

Or BearPaw Wilderness- John goes out of his way to get it right and the customer happy.

Or Six Moon Designs- Ron typically does great work

Or MLD, or HMG or, or or Ya I think overall they all do a great Job.

So who can go positive and start an 19 page+ thread? you?

Derrick White
(miku) - MLife

Locale: Newfoundland & Labrador, Canada
Re Harald on 06/01/2013 14:34:48 MDT Print View

Harald,

You are right, commercial practices regularly deviate from the law, either by explicit agreement or one party imposing its will on the other. Neither of these changes the law when the contract is otherwise silent, especially between a vendor and a lone one time buyer, in the cottage industry context or otherwise

Unlike you, I have never accepted any cost arising from a vendor's failure to supply what they promised to me, perhaps because I know I don't have to. As many have pointed out here, a simple email or phone call tends to remedy these type of things.

But sometimes they are not remedied and for those that ultimately find their way into a court room, usually where the cost of the return is very significant, as a bare skimming of case law will confirm, the shipping costs are those of the breaching party.

Big people (usually companies) short shrift little people (usually buyers) everyday. That doesn't make it legal or right. It is this fact that is the impetus behind consumer protection legislation, where, because vendors are normally more powerful and resourceful than the consumer, the consumer get even more rights than they would in the common law.

In Yang's case, the common law is a sufficient remedy for him. Consumer protection legislation may give him even more, depending on the states involved.

Harald, stripped of the insults and innuendo, your point is a good one. But its anecdotal, and fortunately 500 hundred years of common law is based on a bigger universe that the limits of your commercial life experience.

Derrick

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - F

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re Harald on 06/01/2013 14:45:57 MDT Print View

I'm always amazed at how eloquently some of you can lob insults or counter someone's point/insults. That must be one of the other "dark arts" that are learned when going UL. You don't get this kind of good material at other sites.


Ryan

Edited by ViolentGreen on 06/01/2013 14:46:30 MDT.

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
The solution on 06/01/2013 15:04:20 MDT Print View

Gear swap.

List less than perfect gear for high prices, let the fanboys collect them as rare prototypes !

For sale, shelter, missing one tie out so it's lighter than the production version.

For Sale, bug net, improved ventilation while missing material reduces weight.

For Sale, tarp, loose crooked stitching allows customization not normally available.

See ?
--G.B.--

Edited by redmonk on 06/01/2013 15:07:04 MDT.

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife
Re: The solution on 06/01/2013 15:09:37 MDT Print View


For sale, shelter, missing one tie out so it's lighter than the production version.

For Sale, bug net, improved ventilation while missing material reduces weight.

For Sale, tarp, loose crooked stitching allows customization not normally available.


wow, sounds like it would be lighter weight than what it would be normally... I'll take it!!!

D S
(smoke) - F
I don't dare- on 06/01/2013 17:59:56 MDT Print View

I've never dealt with SMD, but this thread puts several bad tastes in my mouth -

I don't like it that SMD evidently has QC issues. I guess I've worked in QC too long to accept lame excuses like "stuff happens". I wish I had that option in my job.

I don't like the way SMD responded to the issue. Nuff said!

I guess if I want something SMD, I'll pick it up used and let somebody else work the bugs out.

Main issue - After seeing the personal attacks here, I don't dare air any issues with Gear Swap or any Vendor on this site. You guys are really screwing-up getting useful info on a bad experience, which I think others should be warned of.

scree ride
(scree)
No quality problems on 06/01/2013 18:31:48 MDT Print View

Only somebody who joined the forum merely to force an issue with a vender. Who is to say the tent was damaged at SMD's end?
Independent venders should remain independent and not be the subject of what really amounts to a shake down. There is way too much attitude going on here to account for losing 20 bucks. Somebody didn't get their way and mom's not there to take care of it...
If you don't buy SMD, you're probably going to pay more for a product of the same or less quality. Stand you're ground though brother, somebody said something once and you're going to limit yourself because of it.
"Fanboy", whatever...As Zorg said, shop at Walmart. They don't really have much, but they have a wonderful return policy, but then you'd probably have to wait in line.

Edited by scree on 06/01/2013 18:35:08 MDT.

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
SMD on 06/01/2013 18:47:37 MDT Print View

It's a rarity, but I'm with Eric on this one. Have a legitimate issue with a cottage manufacturer, attempt to resolve it offline, get no relief, bring it online, and then watch (some/much) of the UL community get nasty circling the wagons around the cottage manufacturer.

Don't we want to know if tents get sent out with bad sewing, missing guylines, damaged mesh, etc.? Or would we rather attack a buyer who tries every avenue to have his issues concerned?

Parsing return policy language vs. implied whatever vs. legal whatnot misses the heart of the issue completely. Poor workmanship was provided for (a lot of) money, a return with shipping paid was offered in writing, and not followed through on. How quickly a bunch of people (often with little history at BPL) go on personal attack on the buyer is unsettling, and doesn't reflect well on BPL. But I guess if you've only been around here for two months, maybe it's not really a community to you, anyway. Just a place to rant at people on the internet.

eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
Re: No quality problems on 06/01/2013 19:28:45 MDT Print View

Only somebody who joined the forum merely to force an issue with a vender.

another fabrication

mister yang lu joined in 2011, and while not a prolific poster ... has asked the normal questions about gear

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/profile?ot=80&u=yanglu#posts

of course im sure some people will say he joined in 2011 and planned to "discredit" their favorite cottage company way in advance ;)

Raymond Estrella
(rayestrella) - MLife

Locale: Northern Minnesota
F members on 06/01/2013 20:04:41 MDT Print View

"Only somebody who joined the forum merely to force an issue with a vender."

Right, you are such a long timer Scree...

I liked it better when we had to be a real member to post. (You know, that two week period that everybody hated;-)

Seriously I have not had a single rain-free day yet (on a day off) to seam seal my TT SS2 yet. Maybe I should blame Henry for the weather. But from what I see the tent is great. No torn netting or loose threads.

I return you to your previously scheduled trolls.

Zorg Zumo
(BurnNotice) - F
Re: I don't dare- on 06/01/2013 20:21:42 MDT Print View

dump

Ah all better now - I just love memes!

Kind of a drag, but read the OP first - then post.

Yang screwed up. I know lots of people struggle with that, but hey - Obama got reelected so we know people aren't the brightest sometimes.

Yang screwed up and he doesn't want to admit it. He's done a heck of a good job running a pity thread.

Now after nearly 400 posts it is only natural for a few latecomers to join in castigating the vendor, but seriously - think. Yang screwed up.

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD) on 06/01/2013 20:30:20 MDT Print View

If you are implying that Yang screwed up by picking SMD over a reliable company that doesn't have a fourty paragraph return policy design to protect themselves from shoddy quality control && inadequate customer service, then I strongly disagree.

As this thread shows he had no way to know going into the purchase what type of company he was dealing with, because of the BPL culture that loves their favorite companies.

The official Ron/SMD legalese response was eye opening, but ultimately, just like the those of his company, he took back his words.

Perhaps, in light of their policies, SMD gear is best acquired through a reliable third party retailer that has a desire to stay in business.

--G.B.--

Edited by redmonk on 06/01/2013 20:42:59 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: I don't dare- on 06/01/2013 20:34:53 MDT Print View

I still like you, Zorg

Stupid

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
oregon on 06/01/2013 20:42:35 MDT Print View

Zorg from Oregon.

Six Moon Designs from Oregon.

Hmmmmmm.

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
.... poof! on 06/01/2013 20:47:25 MDT Print View

"The official Ron/SMD legalese response was eye opening, but ultimately, just like the those of his company, he took back his words."


+1

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: I don't dare- on 06/01/2013 20:51:10 MDT Print View

Maybe we can talk Ron into a cage match at the next GGG. Always looking for entertainment.

Bob Bankhead
(wandering_bob) - MLife

Locale: Oregon, USA
SMD Thread on 06/01/2013 21:02:56 MDT Print View

stop

Dave T
(DaveT) - F
another. on 06/01/2013 21:08:55 MDT Print View

Yet another Oregon SMD fanboi, also with internet clipart/memery.

Hmmmm.

Greg F
(GregF) - F

Locale: Canadian Rockies
Read Zorgs First Post on 06/01/2013 21:16:17 MDT Print View

"Yang screwed up. I know lots of people struggle with that, but hey - Obama got reelected so we know people aren't the brightest sometimes.

Yang screwed up and he doesn't want to admit it. He's done a heck of a good job running a pity thread."

So Zorg posted the above on page 19. What is really funny is that if you read Zorgs post on page one you see him state that he thinks that Yang should have got his shipping refunded. Nice Trolling by Zorg. His first post in the thread "But I still don't understand why SMD didn't refund the shipping - sounds like you just need another email/phone call." Seems a little inconsistent.


One other thing I would like to know from Yang is that after you got the email from Ron Moak stating that he wouldn't refund the shipping what did you send him back? It seems odd that the email chain would end with him just refusing to pay you back for shipping. It might be posted somewhere in here but I didn't see it.

I still believe that Ron should have offered you a credit toward a future purchase but I am interested in what you sent him back after he declined to refund the shipping.

Edited by GregF on 06/01/2013 21:18:47 MDT.

Ernie Fuentes
(askernie) - F
THE LAW OF 150 on 06/02/2013 08:02:34 MDT Print View

Ladies and Gents...and RON,

It was written many years ago by a great salesman that we ALL know at least 150 people that are important enough to invite to our wedding and to our funeral.

This theory has been the secret to many a businesses growing and succeeding.

Magnify this theory X3 by the power of the internet and you have a great success for a business or a great failure.

This whole post has been an exercise in that theory.

As a business person myself, I have realized in my 55 years that the customer may not ALWAYS be right but you have to treat them as such in order to stay in business.

RON...you know what to do.


Ernie the Eyeball