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Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD)
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Raymond Estrella
(rayestrella) - MLife

Locale: Northern Minnesota
Interesting time killer on 05/31/2013 14:33:49 MDT Print View

My 3-day weekend fell apart so I decided to do some light reading... ;-)

Personally my take is just that if SMD told him they would refund the shipping they should have. To not do so is pretty lame in my book, and invites the lambasting.

Zorg is a funny troll. (Or a sock puppet, I am trying to figure that out.) But you all know how I feel about people that hide behind fake names. (Nature Boy is that you?)

Jeffrey Whynot
(jcwhynot) - M

Locale: Northeast
Yikes on 05/31/2013 14:35:02 MDT Print View

Can't wait to use my new SMD Lunar Solo I got this past winter. Ron and his son helped me before and after the purchase. I've got no beef. Hopefully this doesn't leave a big mark.

Josh Brock

Locale: Outside
Re: Your a weird dude, Josh Brock, ...a weird dude. on 05/31/2013 14:36:14 MDT Print View

Indeed I am... =0

Josh Brock

Locale: Outside
Re: Interesting time killer on 05/31/2013 14:41:54 MDT Print View

"But you all know how I feel about people that hide behind fake names. (Nature Boy is that you?)"

That is his internet name google him. He lives in oregon is and advocate for gun rights and hates chinese shipping things to the US... Thats just what i found in a couple of seconds

But clearly this is his thing getting in to confrontations behind a computer screens.

Dave -
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Interesting time killer on 05/31/2013 14:50:09 MDT Print View

Ray - if it IS Nature Boy, we can find out by posting a shoe question.


Locale: Somewhere out hiking!!!
BAHAHAHAHA... on 05/31/2013 15:11:16 MDT Print View

I posted this thread on WhiteBlaze as a "heads up" about concerns with SMD... The first reply was from a Moderator, Sly(Hikertrash)

Email replies are in the OP.

Seems to me there was a lack of understanding on Yang Lu's part and some miscommunication. Brandon told him to send it back in a priority mail tyvek envelope (1 lb) which would not have cost $21.60. Ron's response was rather than getting an exchange, he canceled the order.

Of the 10 replies, 2 were WhiteBlaze moderators, the second being Alligator(DB extraordinaire)Closing the thread with these comments:

This is a customer disagreement posted to another website. The customer has not weighed in on it here. Best to leave your comments over on the other site instead of dragging it over here. Thanks.

I hope that Yang will indeed post there, so that other hikers will be able to determine for themselves if SMD products/quality and most importantly, customer service is worthy of their time and money...

Daniel Fish

Locale: PDX
... on 05/31/2013 15:13:17 MDT Print View


Edited by on 06/08/2013 18:56:03 MDT.

Zorg Zumo
(BurnNotice) - F
Re: Re: Interesting time killer on 05/31/2013 15:48:46 MDT Print View

We're so close to 15 pages that it is ok to attack the messenger.

Josh Brock

Locale: Outside
Re: Still unresolved? Can I Help? on 05/31/2013 15:49:10 MDT Print View

LOL Ron already comented on this thread and then deleted them so im sure he is apprised of the situation....

But if you'd like to help crop dusting Ron on the street or in a restaurant would be great! and then when he smells it say that was for my man YANG!!!

Ps Daniel you are to nice....cut it out.

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife

Re: Disagree on 05/31/2013 15:52:22 MDT Print View

I'm going to disagree with the general consensus. And will probably be accused of attacking Yang for doing so but that is not my intent. I've never done business with SMD or know anyone there so I'm not biased in favor of them.

"It is funny that even at this moment some people are still looking for excuses to blame a consumer but ignore some very basic facts."

Well, the basic facts are not as clear as suggested here.

You ask for replacements for both. Fair enough.

" I am thinking I should get a replacement for both the Tarp and NetTent."

He thinks the trap should be OK and gives you an RMA for the NetTent which he also refers to as the shelter.

"The Haven NetTent can be returned for repair or exchange. We will look at the issue more closely once we get the shelter in.

Please use the RMA code 2013-0502A Include a note that says that you are sending the shelter back due to some small holes."

He did not authorize you to return the tarp. Maybe he should have and maybe not. But you two should have worked that out so it was agreed upon what would be returned before sending anything back.

"After we get the shelter in we can reimburse you for shipping costs. The shelter should fit nicely in a priority mail tyvek envelope and only weight 1 lb."

Again, he is referring to the NetTent. He probably should have stated that explicitly. But one thing we know on BPL is weights. The NetTent weighs 1 lb. From their website:

The Haven NetTent is now 2 oz. heavier, for a final weight of 16 oz.

The combination weighs over 2 lbs.

Even after all that, they probably would have replaced or repaired both items and sent them back as per their stated policy:

Our products are fully warranted to the original owner against defects in materials and workmanship. If our product fails due to a manufacturing defect, we will repair the product, without charge, or replace it, at our discretion.

You are responsible for paying for postage for all products returned for Warranty Coverage. If the item is covered under Warranty, we'll absorb the return shipping cost.

So you were entitled to get the items you ordered repaired or replaced and have the shipping reimbursed. But you decided to cancel the order instead. Which is covered by:

We are confident you will pleased with your Six Moon Designs equipment. However, if for some reason your purchase from Six Moon Designs does not meet your needs, you may return any unused items within 30 days for a full refund (less shipping charges).

Which, in the end, is all that matters. No matter how we got here, you cancelled your order because you wanted something else, the cuben version. If you had just wanted what you ordered fixed or replaced, you shouldn't have cancelled your order.

It appears to me that SMD followed their clearly stated policies.


Josh Brock

Locale: Outside
Re: Re: Disagree on 05/31/2013 16:02:14 MDT Print View

John Abdela hates Yang.

I bets its cause of the time he spent in korea.

So close to 15!

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife

Re: Re: Re: Disagree on 05/31/2013 16:06:41 MDT Print View

I can neither confirm nor deny any involvement or non-involvement in the DPRK.

Oh, and its Lorax now... get it right ;)

Fitz Travels
Policy on 05/31/2013 16:12:48 MDT Print View

Are most cottage manufacturers return policy filled with so many technicalities?

Can someone explain to me why if they ship a faulty product, the person who gets that product has to eat any charge for returning it, regardless of exchange or not.

its like buying a hamburger, they get it wrong, i take it back and say i just want my money back, and they take out 30 cents from my refund to compensate for the wage they had to pay the worker to make my sandwich wrong to begin with...

15 yet?

Edit: its all moot, the return policy, because once yang was informed by a customer service representative that he would be refunded shipping... That overruled the policy, which the company is allowed to do, not the customer. If the customer service representative did not have the authority to override the policy... Perhaps he should pay the 20 dollars.

$20 has turned into multiple accounts of faulty products, bad service, and generally bad advertising.

By the way, at this point, i dont even rememmber which company i am talking about

Edited by fitztravels on 05/31/2013 16:18:11 MDT.

Willie Evenstop
(redmonk) - F

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD) on 05/31/2013 16:13:02 MDT Print View

Somewhere in an alternate universe:

Ron :" I'm sorry to hear about your issues. Normally we don't refund shipping, and I see now my company said they would. We want you to like your purchase, so, what i can do is either refund your shipping, or give you a code for a discount off your next purchase that will more than cover shipping. Our cuben should arrive by $DATE, and I'll be glad to put you at the top of the list, and call you when they arrive.

We know you have choices, and it's prime trip season, let us know what you want to do. Call me on my cell for fastest service at 867-5309.


This universe: "he might never buy anything again so it is best to pocket the shipping"

Hope that helps, for people just tuning in

Edited by redmonk on 05/31/2013 16:17:58 MDT.

robert v
(mtnbob123) - F

Locale: Upstate South Carolina
Hmmmmmm on 05/31/2013 16:16:09 MDT Print View

That would go against what I have seen with SMD

Christopher *

Locale: US East Coast
Re on 05/31/2013 16:16:10 MDT Print View

All SMD needs to do to remedy this situation is get some new product to market at an amazing new weight. Dispersions will be forgotten. Ounces outweigh PR.

Bases loaded. Frankle at the plate.

Jason Johnson
(etex9799) - F
Gross BOOB....the outfitter only comes in 1 color so your also DUMBA$$ BOB on 05/31/2013 16:22:26 MDT Print View



Locale: Somewhere out hiking!!!
Fanboy... on 05/31/2013 16:23:02 MDT Print View

John Abela, you are such a Blatant "RonBoy" it clouds ur intelligence...

In closing the facts are simple, the Six Moon Designs “Skyscape X” shelter is the finest one-piece solo shelter I have ever encountered.

Then this...

I think there have only been around fifty of these things made so far. Except one that I sold early last year I have never seen one for sale anywhere. I got one sitting in my backpack, but not ready to give it up. Drop me a message in a few weeks after I see what SMD is announcing for their 2013 new product line-up.

Thanks for reading!


(disclaimer: I purchased this product with my own money. It was not given to me. I am under no obligation to write this review.

Soooo, you paid retail from Ron for not one, but 2 tents, yet you sold one, and based on their 2013 offering(better designed, improved, etc) the other maybe for sale... Hmmmmm... If it walks like a fanboy, posts like a fanboy....

Fitz Travels
Shelter on 05/31/2013 16:30:44 MDT Print View

Abela does make a point about returning the net but not the tarp.

But i think it is reasonable to consider them a UNIT, even if bought seperatelt BUT at the same time. If one part of the unit is faulty, the whole unit is faulty especially considering the interwoven natue of the items.

High end Restaurants have been known to provide full refunds on whoe meals even though technically the items are listed seperately when something is not right, burnt steak, etc...


So posts like this dont happen.

Edited by fitztravels on 05/31/2013 16:33:54 MDT.

Willie Evenstop
(redmonk) - F

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD on 05/31/2013 16:32:55 MDT Print View

Ablabela is one of the most qualified reviewers online. He buys multiples to check consistency ! Tens of thousands of dollars a year get pumped into the industry by John. He is an amazing resource. He is a genuine SUL resource, and has put together tables of shelter data out of pocket.

But yes, fanboy, of numerous brands.


Edited by redmonk on 05/31/2013 23:58:44 MDT.