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Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD)
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eric chan
(bearbreeder) - F
hmmmmm on 05/31/2013 10:12:25 MDT Print View

and now we have a few more people with issues with some gear ...

i wonder how many people have such issues gear but never bring it up due to the BPL rah rah rah frenzy ;)

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: hmmmmm on 05/31/2013 10:17:56 MDT Print View

Ghs

Josh Brock
(needsAbath)

Locale: Outside
Re: hmmmmm on 05/31/2013 10:18:55 MDT Print View

and now we have a few more people with issues with some gear ...

Nope not possible. Clearly these people are liars, had a bad day, dont know what quality gear is, cant communicate properly, and arent educated in retail law.

GICH

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: hmmmmm on 05/31/2013 10:23:16 MDT Print View

Hey Travis, what does that weigh?

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Re: hmmmmm on 05/31/2013 10:31:35 MDT Print View

At one time, the few cottage industry manufacturers were somewhat insulated from public dissatisfaction since they didn't have much competition. But that is changing as more companies start to market this kind of gear. Given that, these businesses need to pay attention to customer feedback on the Internet... the internet is their main marketing vehicle, and it can be a double edged sword as customers use the Internet to research goods and read reviews.

Ron didn't do himself any favors by engaging in the conversation in a confrontational manner -- he probably did himself more harm than Yang's initial post. Reminiscent of the POE debacle here on BPL, which David Ure pointed out. Had Ron posted here that he had reviewed the purchase and will reimburse the shipping charges the thread would have died, and Ron would have been a hero, enhancing his company. Unfortunately the thread has dragged on and will continue to do so -- all of a big negative for SMD. So Ron won a small battle with a customer, and long term may lose the war for new and repeat customers. Even if he changed his mind today, the damage has been done.

I side with Yang on this. He bought a $360 shelter, not a $79 Wal-Mart special. Given that both the inner and outer had manufacturing defects, why would he want a replacement that might have the same quality control, not to mention the lack of quick communication. We pay premium dollars for cottage goods, and as customers we should demand premium workmanship and customer handling. No "Pass Go Free" cards for them.

FWIW, I have purchased gear from SMD, so I am a customer.

Derrick White
(miku) - MLife

Locale: Newfoundland & Labrador, Canada
Warranty v. Fit for use on 05/31/2013 10:31:49 MDT Print View

The warranty is irrelevant to this issue.

A warranty is designed to cover a specified period of use which begins once the purchaser takes possession and determines the product is fit for use.

This could be a product with no warranty and it wouldn't change SMD's responsibility to pay the return shipping.

1. There was a contract: $ for a product.
2. Yang delivered agreed amount of cash; SMD failed to deliver product as advertised - assuming it was defective.
3. Legally, absent any other agreement at the time of purchase, SMD must bear the loss because of its breach, not Yang. Their loss in this case is the shipping to get their tent back.

There are 3 reasons SMD should refund Yang's costs (loss): the first being that it is just the way the law works, the second because they agreed in writing once the issue arose and the third because of SMD's own self interest in its public image:

1. SMD has a legal obligation regardless of any agreement or promise or need to do the right thing. Its their legal obligation. Plain and simple.
2. They promised to refund the shipping in writing. This is really a 2nd contract that they also breached.
3. If SMD does not agree with 1 and 2 for whatever reason (convenience, bad advice or heightened sense of self-importance) they should have been more courteous for no other reason than courtesy and fairness to a customer - which what I think Brandon was doing instinctively, as most of us would.

This are a lot of opinions here to which everyone is entitled, but analyzing this on the assumption that SMD is not subject to contract law is just plain misinformed.

Nuff said.

I am going hiking girls and boys!!!!

Ciao
Derrick

Josh Brock
(needsAbath)

Locale: Outside
Re: Re: Re: hmmmmm on 05/31/2013 10:35:14 MDT Print View

"Hey Travis, what does that weigh?"

That is SMD new UL CIRCOLE 1200.. Sleeps 1200 people and weighs 2000 lbs.. Under 2 pounds per person.

Pitching takes for ever though. And if you dont like shipping to return it is really steep.

Randy Nelson
(rlnunix) - F - M

Locale: Rockies
SMD on 05/31/2013 10:37:47 MDT Print View

"Because Brandon said they would refund the shipping if Yang sent in the tent, which is in writing no less, and then Ron overruled the decision once the tent was received by Six Moons. Why are you confused?"

The problem appears to be with your reading comprehension. :)

Nowhere does Brandon say that they will refund shipping if he returns both pieces and cancels his order.

Josh Brock
(needsAbath)

Locale: Outside
de-freinded on 05/31/2013 10:40:49 MDT Print View

I just found out other cottage gear manufacturers have de-friended Ron on face book and no longer following his tweets, in an attempt to show support to Yangs cause.

Ima start making posters.

Randy Nelson
(rlnunix) - F - M

Locale: Rockies
SMD on 05/31/2013 10:43:56 MDT Print View

"Jennifer and Randy, can you tell me what Branden agreed upon based on emails?"

He agreed to refund the shipping on the NetTent sent in for repairs/replacement. He failed to address your statement that you thought you'd return them all and buy cuben later. (Which he should of.) You then assumed that was OK. But when he said it would fit in a tyvek envelope and weigh 1 pound, didn't that indicate to you that there was a disconnect between what each of you were thinking? He certainly didn't tell you that he agreed to you cancelling your order and refunding your shipping.

scree ride
(scree)
now we have two on 05/31/2013 10:56:30 MDT Print View

I still have a very nice tent with no issues. Dig deeper, I'm sure you can find something to change that. While you're at it, change it for everybody else who has received quality equipment from SMD.
Everybody accusing me of getting paid, all those who don't own the equipment, and all of those lookie loos out there up in arms, you have no clue. The customer is always right is not right. The refund was for one pound of shipping, not two and not for a return but for an exchange. No one was defrauded. The only one who came out ahead was USPS.
Anyways, you all have a nice day.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: Re: hmmmmm on 05/31/2013 10:57:49 MDT Print View

The entire thing actually weighs 37 ounces. It's made of unicorn testicle hair woven expertly together by elves.

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
"Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD)" on 05/31/2013 11:02:57 MDT Print View

What I find appalling about this thread, at this point, is the repeated personal attacks from two people on the OP, who has been nothing but respectful. Disagree with his complaint if you wish, but leave off the personal attacks and sarcasm, please. I believe we're all adults here, and should be able to engage in a discussion of this nature without acting like high school mean girls.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
The only thing missing from this thread..... on 05/31/2013 11:13:20 MDT Print View

....would be this:

http://fox13now.com/2013/05/31/viral-video-prancercising/

You're welcome.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 05/31/2013 11:27:40 MDT.

Randy Nelson
(rlnunix) - F - M

Locale: Rockies
SMD on 05/31/2013 11:13:46 MDT Print View

"I side with Yang on this. He bought a $360 shelter, not a $79 Wal-Mart special. Given that both the inner and outer had manufacturing defects, why would he want a replacement that might have the same quality control, not to mention the lack of quick communication."

I can see your point Nick. But he never said that because of the workmanship that he wanted his money back. He wanted his money back because he was no longer in a rush and wanted to get the same model but in Cuben.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: hmmmmm on 05/31/2013 11:13:47 MDT Print View

"The entire thing actually weighs 37 ounces. It's made of unicorn testicle hair woven expertly together by elves."

Travis - the issue I see is that seam sealing would add 7 lbs.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: hmmmmm on 05/31/2013 11:15:33 MDT Print View

"Travis - the issue I see is that seam sealing would add 7 lbs."

If you thin the silicone with the tears of baby seals, it actually makes the shelter lighter. True story. Just googled it.

Edit: I stand corrected. The tears need to be unethically harvested to receive the weight benefit. Asking the baby seal to voluntarily surrender the tears doesn't work for some reason.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 05/31/2013 11:28:33 MDT.

Josh Brock
(needsAbath)

Locale: Outside
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: hmmmmm on 05/31/2013 11:24:49 MDT Print View

"The entire thing actually weighs 37 ounces. It's made of unicorn testicle hair woven expertly together by elves."

I thought it was 1049 grams? and was a new hemp product?

Nick Gatel
(ngatel) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Damage Control? on 05/31/2013 11:26:16 MDT Print View

I just did a Google search for Six Moons Designs, filtered for the last week.

The number one hit is this thread. #6 is a thread on White Blaze referring to this one.

Not good publicity.

Josh Brock
(needsAbath)

Locale: Outside
WWGVPD on 05/31/2013 11:34:44 MDT Print View

What Would GLen Van Peski DO?

I wonder what the other guys would have done given the same situation?

and if any of them would chime in on this PR disaster? LOL