Forum Index » GEAR » Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD)


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Ryan Nakahara
(kife42) - F

Locale: Hawaii
re: SMD on 05/31/2013 01:01:35 MDT Print View

Ok, I skimmed over this thread and here's my opinion.

re: 2. The image make it look like holes, but it's normal for netting to have stretch marks. I have a feeling those are not actual holes. Anyway, moving on...

re: 3. ...after I cut the threads the remaining stitches would still be durable.
I don't think Yang is even talking about the hanging threads. I think he means the loose stitching. In which case, all you'd need to do is even it out a bit.

re: 4. I was not able to use the tent... Then I can wait for the cuben version until...
What? This does not even make sense. He completely skipped the part about asking for full refund.

re: 5. ...left a note in the package.
We see the email, but what exactly did the note say?? In the end it doesn't matter what this email says, because if he wrote a note with the return that gave SMD the impression he was cancelling the order, that's why they did not refund shipping.

Yang Lu
(yanglu)
Re: re: SMD on 05/31/2013 01:32:32 MDT Print View

Are you another Scree?!

It is funny that even at this moment some people are still looking for excuses to blame a consumer but ignore some very basic facts.

If I remember correctly (I know, I know someone will challenge this word but as I am a honest person I do not want to make up something I do not clearly remember) the note I left was basically the print of the email you saw! Is that enough for you?

It looks like you do not have question about the following paragraph. Do you?

> Yang,
>
> After we get the shelter in we can reimburse you for shipping costs.
> The shelter should fit nicely in a priority mail tyvek envelope and
> only weight 1 lb.
>
> Please send to
>
> Six Moon Designs
> 8250 SW Nimbus Ave
> Beaverton, OR 97008
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brandon Moak
> --
> Six Moon Designs
> Innovative Ultralight Adventure Gear
> www.sixmoondesigns.com
> 503.430.2303
>
>
>> Brandon,
>>
>> None of them have been used. So we are fine. I am thinking to return
>> them all and buy them later when your cuben version is in stock. But
>> since this is a material defective and not my fault, it does not make
>> sense for me to pay for the shipping to return them. Can you afford
>> the shipping cost? Do you have a way to issue return label? Or you
>> can reimburse the shipping after you receive them?




"re: 5. ...left a note in the package.
We see the email, but what exactly did the note say?? In the end it doesn't matter what this email says, because if he wrote a note with the return that gave SMD the impression he was cancelling the order, that's why they did not refund shipping."

Trace Richardson
(tracedef) - MLife

Locale: Southern California
Deleted Responses from Ron on 05/31/2013 04:42:43 MDT Print View

What's up with Ron's two deleted responses? Would like to have heard Ron's responses but he deleted them. If you're going to speak your mind, stand behind your own words ... Especially on a trivial, if nothing else, bump in the road with a customer. His subjects hinted at a legal response, which indicates that he's not getting the bigger picture, if that is the case ....

scree ride
(scree)
why the hate on 05/31/2013 05:24:07 MDT Print View

Why gang up on a retailer that most of you have never used much less know anything about? Ron wisely deleted his words, apparently deciding not to get caught up in this witch hunt. Quality control means defective products don't leave the store. How many other examples are there out there of Six Moons lack of quality. None. Repeat NONE! i used capital letters that time. I hope nobody takes offense. What a sad group.

BER ---
(BER) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Move on on 05/31/2013 06:52:23 MDT Print View

So an issue occurred. The grievance was made public. The public has clearly heard.

It remains a matter between SMD and their customer.

Further discussion (and much of the prior discussion) does not add to the situation. Move on.

Anybody heard of any innovative new gear coming down the pipeline that we can get excited about?

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Turned ugly on 05/31/2013 06:55:02 MDT Print View

Zorg, that is a Monitor stove with a silent burner, uses kerosene. It works fine, I just had to remove the pump tube so I could access the NRV in the bottom, it had come loose and all then had to be resoldered back. My ugliest stove out of 90+. Although I have a multi-thru hike MSR X-GK II that I picked up that is not pretty either, that runs very good.
Duane

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Move on on 05/31/2013 06:56:10 MDT Print View

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=77784&startat=100

Been tried. You just are going to wait these things out.

BER ---
(BER) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Ken on 05/31/2013 07:23:31 MDT Print View

Well, it was worth a try.
I, at least, will now move on. Have a fine day all.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Turned ugly on 05/31/2013 07:31:53 MDT Print View

Duane I think my dad really does have one of those, and I think he still uses it.

He uses this thing too:Blaster

He seemed very excited about using this to "preheat" his MYOG stuff.

Jon Leibowitz
(jleeb) - F - MLife

Locale: 4Corners
meh on 05/31/2013 07:38:33 MDT Print View

Everyone has bad days. Sometimes store owners make mistakes and sometimes customers make big deals out of small things. SMD is awesome. I use many of their products and have never had issue with a product or customer service.

That being said, this thread was awesome. Thank you.

Randy Nelson
(rlnunix) - F - M

Locale: Rockies
Disagree on 05/31/2013 07:44:19 MDT Print View

I'm going to disagree with the general consensus. And will probably be accused of attacking Yang for doing so but that is not my intent. I've never done business with SMD or know anyone there so I'm not biased in favor of them.

"It is funny that even at this moment some people are still looking for excuses to blame a consumer but ignore some very basic facts."

Well, the basic facts are not as clear as suggested here.

You ask for replacements for both. Fair enough.

" I am thinking I should get a replacement for both the Tarp and NetTent."

He thinks the trap should be OK and gives you an RMA for the NetTent which he also refers to as the shelter.

"The Haven NetTent can be returned for repair or exchange. We will look at the issue more closely once we get the shelter in.

Please use the RMA code 2013-0502A Include a note that says that you are sending the shelter back due to some small holes."

He did not authorize you to return the tarp. Maybe he should have and maybe not. But you two should have worked that out so it was agreed upon what would be returned before sending anything back.

"After we get the shelter in we can reimburse you for shipping costs. The shelter should fit nicely in a priority mail tyvek envelope and only weight 1 lb."

Again, he is referring to the NetTent. He probably should have stated that explicitly. But one thing we know on BPL is weights. The NetTent weighs 1 lb. From their website:

The Haven NetTent is now 2 oz. heavier, for a final weight of 16 oz.

The combination weighs over 2 lbs.

Even after all that, they probably would have replaced or repaired both items and sent them back as per their stated policy:

Our products are fully warranted to the original owner against defects in materials and workmanship. If our product fails due to a manufacturing defect, we will repair the product, without charge, or replace it, at our discretion.

You are responsible for paying for postage for all products returned for Warranty Coverage. If the item is covered under Warranty, we'll absorb the return shipping cost.

So you were entitled to get the items you ordered repaired or replaced and have the shipping reimbursed. But you decided to cancel the order instead. Which is covered by:

We are confident you will pleased with your Six Moon Designs equipment. However, if for some reason your purchase from Six Moon Designs does not meet your needs, you may return any unused items within 30 days for a full refund (less shipping charges).

Which, in the end, is all that matters. No matter how we got here, you cancelled your order because you wanted something else, the cuben version. If you had just wanted what you ordered fixed or replaced, you shouldn't have cancelled your order.

It appears to me that SMD followed their clearly stated policies. I'm not sure how that leads to 11 pages of castigation on a website.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Disagree on 05/31/2013 07:56:45 MDT Print View

Randy, that was very well said. I also have no intention to disparage Yang, nor have I ever dealt with SMD. I have also been in the OP's position where I felt terribly wronged by a company; generally I have kind of gotten spoiled in terms of customer service in quite a few dealings with exped, ruff wear, enlightened equipment, MLD...the whole bunch. So I can completely see how you would feel wronged by not getting your shipping costs back.

But Randy was right on the nose when he said it's not so cut and dried, and I can easily see Ron's side that he felt you were just taking advantage (whether that was your INTENT or not, I can see how he would THINK that). What was wrong with the tarp? Why did you return that?

Either way, I can't believe this is still going on about $9. It isn't even the principle of the thing...we've long ago beaten that to death. Yes, Ron should have been nicer. But the OP is not totally innocent in this, either.

I'm going for a hike this weekend. You folks have a nice day.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Disagree on 05/31/2013 07:57:01 MDT Print View

"It appears to me that SMD followed their clearly stated policies. I'm not sure how that leads to 11 pages of castigation on a website."

Because Brandon said they would refund the shipping if Yang sent in the tent, which is in writing no less, and then Ron overruled the decision once the tent was received by Six Moons. Why are you confused?

Karple T
(ctracyverizon)

Locale: Mid-Alantic
** on 05/31/2013 08:15:30 MDT Print View

**

Edited by ctracyverizon on 06/12/2013 07:58:05 MDT.

Jason Johnson
(etex9799)
I have no confidence in SMD on 05/31/2013 08:44:09 MDT Print View

I ordered a Outfitter, one guy out was not even sewn to the tent. That's it for me.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
Turned ugly on 05/31/2013 08:59:05 MDT Print View

Jennifer, I have one like that, but with a red, wooden handle, mine is newer, I like that older style torch. They REALLY put the flame out. COOOLLL!!
Duane

Yang Lu
(yanglu)
Re: Re: Disagree on 05/31/2013 09:01:45 MDT Print View

Jennifer and Randy, can you tell me what Branden agreed upon based on emails?

Josh Brock
(needsAbath)

Locale: Outside
Re: I have no confidence in SMD on 05/31/2013 09:14:51 MDT Print View

"I ordered a Outfitter, one guy out was not even sewn to the tent. That's it for me."

Uh oh Scree thats 2 one more and you have a pattern

Any one who owns or operates a business knows how this should have played out Regardless of policy or Rons Comments about "unforseeable future of said contract". This whole thing is bad for business and thats what we are talking about business.

Oh and people that think that I or others weren't going to buy from him anyway are utterly wrong. I have a gear problem and buy too much of it and was eyeing several of ther products but I have no wish to get cought up in a fiasco like this should I get a product that I am not happy with REGARDLESS of track record for quality gear.

I have personally spent over 6000 dollars(insurance Check) on gear since January and am still buying. I was eyeing their lunar Duo. I had to replace a lot of stolen gear and SMD is now going to miss out on my money along with Yangs.

So from a business owners stand point this whole deal is not worth it and I would just change my return policy..... Plus I think that you would probably get more sales if you paid shipping on all returned goods... Its 9 dollars? Seriously?

Edited by needsAbath on 05/31/2013 09:17:56 MDT.

Zorg Zumo
(BurnNotice) - F
Re: Re: Re: Disagree on 05/31/2013 09:23:54 MDT Print View

Yang - why don't you give it a rest? After all, isn't this discussion distasteful for you?The Pity Trian Derailed

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
The important point on 05/31/2013 09:34:40 MDT Print View


How many other examples are there out there of Six Moons lack of quality. None. Repeat NONE! i used capital letters that time. I hope nobody takes offense.


Paid shrill ? Worst damage control ever ?


We are losing sight of bob, and the core issue.
--G.B.--

Edited by redmonk on 05/31/2013 09:36:15 MDT.