Very unpleasant experience with Six Moon Design (SMD)
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Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: I'm confused - what exactly are you whining about? on 05/29/2013 13:57:13 MDT Print View

You have trouble with reading comprehension as well.

The OP is not really happy with the quality - meh, I agree, threads are not a big issue (the netting is) - but the issue is the refund. Not whether Six Moons should offer a refund but that they did. The issue is indicating that the refund would take place and then reneging on the refund.

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: I'm confused - what exactly are you whining about? on 05/29/2013 14:00:22 MDT Print View

na

Edited by JohnAbela on 06/13/2013 06:08:41 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm confused - what exactly are you whining about? on 05/29/2013 14:08:58 MDT Print View

Given this thread, I can only assume that his refund will be processed.

Squeeky wheel.

Rich J
(PNWhiker) - F

Locale: Pacific NW
Thoughts on 05/29/2013 14:45:08 MDT Print View

Sorry to hear of the issues.

It's not an excuse but I do note that SMD is growing fast. They just moved into a new location and have outsourced a lot of their production. Perhaps it is just a growing pain.

You may wish to consider zpacks (zpacks.com). I've made several purchases from them and they will just bend over backwards to make absolutely sure you are happy. I'd trust them in a nanosecond. They are also more reasonably priced than SMD.

Yang Lu
(yanglu)
Re: Re: I'm confused - what exactly are you whining about? on 05/29/2013 15:17:20 MDT Print View

John Abela,

I think you completely missed my point, but I am not interested in arguing with you becasue you were right that I have no time to waste.

In your last paragraph you mentioned about $20. If I wrote this long post for 20 bucks, I did not see your post was shorter. What is your post for? You have too much free time also?

In your opinion, if I should not care about the 20 bucks, why SMD should care about keeping it?

Yang Lu
(yanglu)
Re: Re: Re: I'm confused - what exactly are you whining about? on 05/29/2013 15:19:16 MDT Print View

Davey Jones, you got exactly my point. I appreciated.

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: I'm confused - what exactly are you whining about? on 05/29/2013 15:22:44 MDT Print View

na

Edited by JohnAbela on 06/13/2013 06:09:22 MDT.

Yang Lu
(yanglu)
Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm confused - what exactly are you whining about? on 05/29/2013 15:36:00 MDT Print View

I am just sharing my experience, not destorying anything. I am curious why you are so sensitive.

As a matter of fact, I did send one last email a couple weeks ago to expresss my concern, but obviously SMD ignored me. So tell me how to work out with the company?





>>> You have too much free time also?

Yes, my comment was totally worth 20 bucks of my time.

Pettily little complaint that should have been worked out with the company.

What, you really think that you posting two pictures and a few email correspondence are going to all of a sudden be a big red flag to the hiking community regarding one of the oldest cottage companies out there? You really think think that? I sure hope not.

Or, is it more that you just wanted to post this in hopes of SMD seeing this and thinking "oh gosh, this one guy is going to destroy our reputation at BPL, we should give this guy his 20 bucks back". HAH get real.

Miguel Arboleda
(butuki) - MLife

Locale: Kanto Plain, Japan
Re: I'm confused - what exactly are you whining about? on 05/29/2013 16:40:41 MDT Print View

I think Yang is posting on BPL precisely because he cannot seem to work out the problem with SMD. That's what I would do if I was having an issue with a cottage manufacturer and they were no longer responding to me, since at least here the cottage manufacturer would have to pay attention and sort out the problem. In Yang's last post he said his last email was "a couple of weeks ago", which suggests that Yang waited quite a reasonable amount of time before taking the step to post here.

I'm not sure, but I think Yang doesn't live in the States, and so I think he has the extra trouble of dealing with a business that probably doesn't trust customers from abroad, especially from where I think Yang comes from. Yang might also not be a native English speaker (I'm just guessing... perhaps I'm wrong). How this translates to the attitudes at SMD I have no idea. But it could possibly be a factor. Over the years I've dealt with lots of American businesses that treated someone from outside the States with overly cautious or downright nasty reluctance. I'm not saying that SMD is like that, but who knows?

A lot of the responses in this thread are being pretty nasty themselves. In the same way that businesses ought to interact with courtesy to customers, I think showing courtesy to someone here in the forums, by assuming they are innocent before accusing them of doing something unsavory, is a basic starting point when talking to anyone. Some of you might have no problem with throwing away money and not caring that a business deal wasn't properly worked out, but I'm sure many of you would. What would you do in Yang's case? Why should he bear the brunt of the problem? And why is SMD's reputation more important than his?

How about we take the stance of some of the other posters here who are at least giving Yang the benefit of the doubt? The problem could be any number of things, both on SMD's part and on Yang's part. But we don't know. So why automatically take SMD's side? It's not easy to post in a public forum where you can be subjected to all the criticism that is already being shown here. Takes courage.

Edited by butuki on 05/30/2013 23:53:48 MDT.

scree ride
(scree)
503-430-2303 on 05/29/2013 16:41:38 MDT Print View

503-430-2303

Yang Lu
(yanglu)
Re: Re: I'm confused - what exactly are you whining about? on 05/29/2013 16:54:16 MDT Print View

Miguel, thanks for the message. It must have taken you quite awhile to write them down. I appreciate it. I actually live in Los Angeles. As you said English was indeed my second language.

Derrick White
(miku) - MLife

Locale: Newfoundland & Labrador, Canada
Black and White on 05/29/2013 17:00:22 MDT Print View

Yang is right to expect a refund. He has asked for it repeatedly with no success. SMD is wrong. Giving shitty customer service is their own chosen peril. Yang's post here is warranted given the preceding events. Like it or not, i does impact their reputation . . . and it should!.

Nuff said,

Derrick

Ron Moak
(rmoak) - F
SMD Disappointment - A case of benefit without commitment. on 05/29/2013 17:02:44 MDT Print View

na

Edited by rmoak on 05/29/2013 18:55:47 MDT.

J P
(jpovs) - F - M

Locale: North Shore
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I'm confused - what exactly are you whining about? on 05/29/2013 17:21:12 MDT Print View

-

Edited by jpovs on 06/15/2014 14:23:11 MDT.

Tad Englund
(bestbuilder) - F - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: SMD Disappointment - A case of benefit without commitment. on 05/29/2013 17:28:03 MDT Print View

So Ron, what I hear you saying is: when Yang Lu purchases the Cuben version he will get free shipping on that purchase, thus making up the refund on the shipping for the previous transaction.
It seams fair for you and fair for him.





Though Yang Lu might have a bad taste in his mouth about the quality of the products (given the pictures shown) and just wanted to return them all because of it. And I can see how he might expect to have the return shipping covered regardless if he orders something else or not. But it is Ron's business and he has the final say.

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: SMD Disappointment - A case of benefit without commitment. on 05/29/2013 17:31:09 MDT Print View

Ron,

I've stalked your website more than a few times and am impressed with SMD's innovative designs.

Maybe extending Yang a line of credit towards the next purchase may be a way to find some middle ground?

Good luck with your future endeavors either way.

On a more positive note, apparently John Abela is the official Lorax of the cottage industry.

Josh Brock
(needsAbath)

Locale: Outside
Re: Re: I'm confused - what exactly are you whining about? on 05/29/2013 17:32:50 MDT Print View

"Threads - omg... grow up. Just cut them if you think a few long threads are the end of the world. A simple piece of thread you think is worth ripping on a company for... sheesh. Perhaps you just need to forget about the whole hiking thing... and maybe take up... oh, I do not know.... hmm, knitting maybe?"

LOL some one does not like other peoples quality expectations... and BTW depending on which threads are being shown this and the way in which it was sewn cutting those threads could be a bad Idea it snot like its an end thread it is a poorly sewn seam not one I would want to cut especially off some thing I just bought I cant return after one use. That thing better be perfect when I get it with there return policy..

"Zor *perfectly* nailed the perfect response to your entire situation: "you should've ordered this gear long ago and tested it before taking it on a trip"

When some one order their gear is irrelevant, especially if they discussed the time frame in which it was needed. If SMD felt like you did they could have always said "time frames are the time frames you do what you feel is necessary" but they didn't they agreed to work around his situation.

"You wrote a 1200+ word post for pretty much nothing more than an issue with a bug net that had a few small holes in it, and 20 bucks in shipping fees."

Its called fully explaining the situation as to not be mistaken. and to be honest he was quite polite with his complaints. VALID COMPLAINTS

BTW I still have confidence that this is a simple misunderstanding and will be made right. most of these guys are good guys in my experiences.

Ryan Smith
(ViolentGreen) - F

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: SMD Disappointment - A case of benefit without commitment. on 05/29/2013 17:37:21 MDT Print View

"And I can see how he might expect to have the return shipping covered regardless if he orders something else or not. But it is Ron's business and he has the final say."

Ahh, that's where we will disagree. The consumer has the final say - one way or the other. I love SMD products personally and have bought a couple things from them. I most likely will in the future too. But, overall I have to agree that this is pretty poor customer service. Regardless of whether a refund was "deserved" or not, SMD committed to it. Customer service 101 - Manage your customer's expectations - Do what you say.

Ryan

Derrick White
(miku) - MLife

Locale: Newfoundland & Labrador, Canada
If you want to get legal on 05/29/2013 17:44:38 MDT Print View

Ron,

With all due respect I don't think your legal analysis would get much mileage under objective legal consideration.

SMD delivered a defective product which is a breach of its contract with Yang. The breach is SMD's, not his, and SMD should bear the cost of putting Yang in the place he would have been had you not breached. Accordingly, SMD should reimburse his shipping. Any other legal construction is a convenient contrivance.

Quite apart from your legal obligations, I would think good customer service dictates something a little more courteous and genuine than what he is receiving.

I have too have received defective products from cottage companies which I've learned of on this site and, you may be interested in knowing, the reasonableness of their response starkly contrasts with the tediousness of yours.

Derrick

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
standards on 05/29/2013 17:52:15 MDT Print View

defective product

Seller covers return shipping, and gives refund if that is desired.
Seller covers return shippina and ships out replacement if that is desired.

cut and dry

What customer intends to do in future, has no bearing on how things ought to be handled.

Non-defective product, customer pays return shipping.